The Amazing Spider-Man TDK is the REAL reason for the reboot

[Doc Samson]

If the director and cast of the previous movies will leave, then why make a sequel?

Because all 3 movies were successful, not to mention the fact that the time period they plan on revisiting was pretty well documented the first time around. It's not like there's a whole lot Raimi missed, aside from Gwen Stacy. I could understand it if the first film was a total disaster or underperformed, but up until a couple hours ago, Spiderman 1 was considered a pretty darn good film. Now it seems like people have all sorts of issues with it, issues I never heard of circa '02

 

[Leenie]

If this movie tries to be TDK in any way, I will hate it.

TDK doesn't have anything that makes me say "I want to see that in a Spider-Man movie."

 

[Crook]

Just cause the script for Spider-Man 4 had shortcomings doesn't mean they had to restart the franchise. If Sony and Raimi couldn't agree on things then just replace him. Simple as that. It wouldn't be the first time a sequel had a new director. If Maguire left, then who cared? It wouldn't be the first time a sequel had a new actor in the lead role.

What would be the point of that? SM3 was already lambasted, so you're going to make a sequel without the same cast/crew, AND carry over that baggage? Makes no sense. It's one thing if just Raimi left. But Maguire (and likely Dunst) leaving takes out the trifecta of this series.

Now this is true, although I find it hard to contemplate how an inherently witty funny wisecracking character can fit in a darker, more gritty film.

TMNT handled it quite well, on a basic level. It's all about how you integrate that humor into the tone you've set for the film. It's doubtful we'll see any Three Stooges-like comedy, but that doesn't mean Peter's light-hearted nature takes a hit. It would just be a different type of humor. Toned down in the sense that it doesn't feel like it's part of a sitcom that's accompanied by a laugh track, but humor nonetheless.

And let's be clear, TDK is my favorite comic film to date, but IMO, the same effect Watchmen & TDKR had on comics, can be the same effect that starts to undermine comic films. It's a copycat industry, and you can't reasonably assume that studios won't turn Spiderman into something else entirely if it meant ticket sales, they destroy characters all the time

Like I said, I'm not going to cry foul until I see it come into play. There is reasonable apprehension to TDKs future influence, but I have yet to see it come to fruition in a negative light.

If this movie tries to be TDK in any way, I will hate it.

TDK doesn't have anything that makes me say "I want to see that in a Spider-Man movie."

Acting? Layered script? Treatment that goes beyond "comic book movie for kids"?

 

[Dark_Lord]

Because all 3 movies were successful, not to mention the fact that the time period they plan on revisiting was pretty well documented the first time around. It's not like there's a whole lot Raimi missed, aside from Gwen Stacy. I could understand it if the first film was a total disaster or underperformed, but up until a couple hours ago, Spiderman 1 was considered a pretty darn good film. Now it seems like people have all sorts of issues with it, issues I never heard of circa '02

Then it must just be me, because I really don't see the point and wouldn't want to see a sequel if the cast and director were gone. It wouldn't feel like a sequel to me. It's just my opinion though.

 

[Leenie]

Acting? Layered script? Treatment that goes beyond "comic book movie for kids"?

Oh, Batman fans. Don't ever change.

I love TDK (as clearly indicated in my signature). It's a near-perfect Batman movie.

When Sony says "gritty" when describing this reboot, I don't want the grittiness to resemble TDK. Batman is not Spider-Man and vice-versa.

Also, there are plenty of elements in the Spider-Man trilogy that don't alienate adults from enjoying it. I'm almost in my mid-20s, and I love these movies (especially the first two).

 

[Doc Samson]

TMNT handled it quite well, on a basic level. It's all about how you integrate that humor into the tone you've set for the film. It's doubtful we'll see any Three Stooges-like comedy, but that doesn't mean Peter's light-hearted nature takes a hit. It would just be a different type of humor. Toned down in the sense that it doesn't feel like it's part of a sitcom that's accompanied by a laugh track, but humor nonetheless.

I guess right there in a nutshell is where my issue lies. I'm on the side of the fence that feels there wasn't nearly enough humor in Raimi's films.

Part of the reason I never crucified SM3 like everybody else did is because it felt fun for a change. SM2, while a very good movie, was way too pretentious for a Spidey flick, and this is just my opinion. I understand where they drew the story from, but overall, it was just too much sulking and woe is me, which didn't seep into the third one as much.

I want the a**hole Peter Parker who, no matter what he was going through, had a whale of a good time underneath the mask. I don't think there was anywhere close to enough of that, and to just turn around and do a complete 180 in the opposite direction, it just doesn't feel like Spiderman to me in the slightest

 

[Crook]

Oh, Batman fans. Don't ever change.

I love TDK (as clearly indicated in my signature). It's a near-perfect Batman movie.

O..k... I get the feeling you mistook what I was saying, because rest assured it doesn't bother me whether a fan likes TDK or not. I'm merely referencing the care and adult-oriented approach to the series.

When Sony says "gritty" when describing this reboot, I don't want the grittiness to resemble TDK. Batman is not Spider-Man and vice-versa.

Also, there are plenty of elements in the Spider-Man trilogy that don't alienate adults from enjoying it. I'm almost in my mid-20s, and I love these movies (especially the first two).

I said nothing at all about alienating adults. Of course we can enjoy kid's flicks. I love Pixar movies. But when it comes to comic book movies, I'd prefer if there was more priority in making it for mature audiences. The material won't stop being seen as fluff if it's treated as such.

I'd rather get a mature movie that teens and kids can still enjoy, rather than a kid's movie that adults can enjoy.

 

[Crook]

I guess right there in a nutshell is where my issue lies. I'm on the side of the fence that feels there wasn't nearly enough humor in Raimi's films.

Part of the reason I never crucified SM3 like everybody else did is because it felt fun for a change. SM2, while a very good movie, was way too pretentious for a Spidey flick, and this is just my opinion. I understand where they drew the story from, but overall, it was just too much sulking and woe is me, which didn't seep into the third one as much.

I want the a**hole Peter Parker who, no matter what he was going through, had a whale of a good time underneath the mask. I don't think there was anywhere close to enough of that, and to just turn around and do a complete 180 in the opposite direction, it just doesn't feel like Spiderman to me in the slightest

Well, that doesn't necessarily have to be sacrificed though. Have you seen Seth Rogen's Observe & Report? TONS of immature jokes, and it was littered with comedic characters and plots points. But it was basically Taxi Driver dipped in new paint, and that showed through with the tone of the film. I laughed a lot, but the film definitely gave off a somber feeling at many points.

The characters and the world they inhibit don't necessarily have to coincide with one another. Juxtaposition is allowed.

 

[TheSlag]

A reboot isn't the problem, a reboot with a serious dark tone is the problem. Furthermore, a new cast and director doesn't mean they even had to address the previous 3 films, they could have hit the ground running and did whatever they wanted to, but once you start talking about eliminating the "laughs" or making Spiderman anything other than a one-liner spewing wisecrack, well, your not really talking about Spiderman at all anymore

Yes, because we ALL know that Spider-Man is really Groucho Marx under the mask. And we ALL want Spidey Quiping one-liners during the Train Battle Scene with Ock.

I applaud the the more serious approach to the storylines that is being promised in the reboot. I will also wait and see IF THEY DELIVER that too. And IF they Do NOT, I will blast them for it just like I blasted Raimi for his failure to deliver the more serious storylines, and instead develivered PLENTY of Cheese.

Spider-Man's arcs have always dealt with serious storylines, THAT is NOT the exclusive domain of the Bat.. HECK.. they took a page out of Spidey's playbook in TDK, with the death of the love interest at the hands of his arch enemy.

And it was GREAT. BUT, it should of been every Spidey fan's birthright.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

I hate this "gritty" word they used in the description. Ugh, do they even know what this word means? Much less reboot?

Spider-Man isn't and shouldn't be gritty. Once againk studios doesn't know what the hell makes a good movie.

I hate the word too...but a lot of fanboys love it. The studio will listen to them, just like it listened when it gave them Venom.

Fanboys in general are obsessed with looking more "mature" and "badass" than they really are. Because everyone knows that adults can't enjoy a good, fun time at the movies, right?

In my experience, fanboys are better at saying what they don't like than they are at saying what they do like. It's easy to criticize. It's hard to actually come up with your own idea for what to do.

A balance between seriousness and humor is the way to go. Spider-Man is a hero born out of the tragic death of a loved one...with roots in the Silver Age of comic books. If you think that The Dark Knight is the way to do Spider-Man, then you're going too far. Go for an Iron Man tone instead.

 

[Pythagoras]

Lol how can they turn the Spidey movie franchise into Nolan's Batman? Its just so stupid...darker style does not fit Spiderman.

 

[Doc Samson]

Yes, because we ALL know that Spider-Man is really Groucho Marx under the mask. And we ALL want Spidey Quiping one-liners during the Train Battle Scene with Ock.

I applaud the the more serious approach to the storylines that is being promised in the reboot. I will also wait and see IF THEY DELIVER that too. And IF they Do NOT, I will blast them for it just like I blasted Raimi for his failure to deliver the more serious storylines, and instead develivered PLENTY of Cheese.

Spider-Man's arcs have always dealt with serious storylines, THAT is NOT the exclusive domain of the Bat.. HECK.. they took a page out of Spidey's playbook in TDK, with the death of the love interest at the hands of his arch enemy.

And it was GREAT. BUT, it should of been every Spidey fan's birthright.

Hate to break it to ya, but Spidey is the cheesiest superhero this side of Clark Kent, and that's exactly how it should be.

It's who he is, he's a high school nerd who somehow became a superhero, he's inherently cheesy, and no, any film featuring Spiderman doesn't get "cool" points by trying to be more serious or dark. Most comics deal with some sort of adult storyline, it's part of the game, but to suggest that Peter Parker himself, somehow needs to be more up to date, or mature, makes no relevant sense to the character. Otherwise, we should have him running around in a black armored suit, dropping chumps with AK-47's. There's nothing wrong with a comic book film being like a....comic book. There's nothing to be ashamed about, as long as your secure as an adult nobody cares if you go see Spiderman. It's ok, no really, it is

 

[Doc Samson]

Well, that doesn't necessarily have to be sacrificed though. Have you seen Seth Rogen's Observe & Report? TONS of immature jokes, and it was littered with comedic characters and plots points. But it was basically Taxi Driver dipped in new paint, and that showed through with the tone of the film. I laughed a lot, but the film definitely gave off a somber feeling at many points.

The characters and the world they inhibit don't necessarily have to coincide with one another. Juxtaposition is allowed.

Actually I did, and I did enjoy it as well. I'm not saying that it couldn't work that way, but I do have some extreme reservations

 

[Golgo-13]

Here's the thing; if TDK is the reason for the re-boot then this spells trouble. Batman is a dark and gritty character, so a dark and gritty movie worked well. Blade is a dark and gritty character; his movies were dark, thus they were a success. The same with The Punisher...kinda. Spider-Man is not a dark and gritty character at all.

My fear now is that Spider-Man falls into the same category as Hulk and The Punisher; two Marvel characters that were re-booted and failed. Hell, Hulk is not as big as Spidey by any means, but he's pretty universally known and his re-boot movie did not do that great at the B.O.

 

[TheSlag]

Hate to break it to ya, but Spidey is the cheesiest superhero this side of Clark Kent, and that's exactly how it should be.

It's who he is, he's a high school nerd who somehow became a superhero, he's inherently cheesy, and no, any film featuring Spiderman doesn't get "cool" points by trying to be more serious or dark. Most comics deal with some sort of adult storyline, it's part of the game, but to suggest that Peter Parker himself, somehow needs to be more up to date, or mature, makes no relevant sense to the character himself. There's nothing wrong with a comic book film being like a....comic book. There's nothing to be ashamed about, as long as your secure as an adult nobody cares if you go see Spiderman. It's ok, no really, it is

Hate to "break it to you". Spider-Man does quip, but not ALL the time. I seem to remember NO QUIPS during the death arc of Gwen Stacy. I seen to remember NO QUIPS during the Death arc of Capt Stacy.

I KNOW, that QUIPS during the final battle with GG in SM1, or Train Battle in SM2, would have ruined the moment completely.

Yes, Peter started out as a kid, geeky, etc... and used the Spidey Personification to come out of that shell, but he has also matured throughout the comics run. IF he had not, the comics would be NOWHERE near as successful as they have been.

And you really think I am "ashamed" of going to see Spider-Man??? Get Real. I am very proud to be a Spidey fan. Period.

And for those that say Spidey should be ALL Groucho Marx, All Cheese, All Dancing (I gotta know what frickin spider-man comis you are reading.. or better yet.. WHAT the hell you're smoking while reading them) t: that Peter breaks out dancing??? LOL

Let's see:

Death of Uncle Ben (Check.. No darkness there, and PLENTY of Quips... "HEY OLD MAN.. Guess that Car Jacker Revoked your License"...

Death of Gwen Stacy (Check.. No Darkness whatsoever) "Hey Gobby.. YOU KILLED THE ONLY WOMAN I EVER LOVED.. but hey.. Baby You NEVER looked Better"

Death of Capt Stacy (CHECK AGAIN.. NO DARKNESS.. NOPE.. all Carebears and Smurfs dancing here "Before you die Old Man.. I have this year old parking ticket.. could you do a brother a spare?"

Yep.. Spidey = CareBears and Dancin Ponies.

 

[Doc Samson]

Here's the thing; if TDK is the reason for the re-boot then this spells trouble. Batman is a dark and gritty character, so a dark and gritty movie worked well. Blade is a dark and gritty character; his movies were dark, thus they were a success. The same with The Punisher...kinda. Spider-Man is not a dark and gritty character at all.

My fear now is that Spider-Man falls into the same category as Hulk and The Punisher; two Marvel characters that were re-booted and failed. Hell, Hulk is not as big as Spidey by any means, but he's pretty universally known and his re-boot movie did not do that great at the B.O.

Precisely, and being a Hulk fan first and foremost, that reboot didn't succeed as well as it could have because they did exactly what the fans cried for, more action, less story, which is absolutely not what the Hulk is about. All of his good stories are deep, psychological affairs, the trick is in finding the balance. But no, the fans cried, the studio did a 180 in the opposite direction and guess what....we got pretty much the same result. Same thing with Punisher Warzone, it'll be the same thing with Daredevil and Fantastic Four too if these execs don't wise up.

These are my fears going forward with Spiderman. The balance needs to be found between a good story and the hero he's supposed to be

 

[bunk]

If this movie tries to be TDK in any way, I will hate it.

TDK doesn't have anything that makes me say "I want to see that in a Spider-Man movie."

Acting.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

wtf does "cheese" mean?

 

[TheSlag]

LOL.. and a more serious approach to story telling will NOT be more balanced? It WILL mean more "action"?

I think not.

I think it will lend itself to more meaningful storylines period. And Less Cheese.

 

[Doc Samson]

Hate to "break it to you". Spider-Man does quip, but not ALL the time. I seem to remember NO QUIPS during the death arc of Gwen Stacy. I seen to remember NO QUIPS during the Death arc of Capt Stacy.

I KNOW, that QUIPS during the final battle with GG in SM1, or Train Battle in SM2, would have ruined the moment completely.

Yes, Peter started out as a kid, geeky, etc... and used the Spidey Personification to come out of that shell, but he has also matured throughout the comics run. IF he had not, the comics would be NOWHERE near as successful as they have been.

And you really think I am "ashamed" of going to see Spider-Man??? Get Real. I am very proud to be a Spidey fan. Period.

And for those that say Spidey should be ALL Groucho Marx, All Cheese, All Dancing (I gotta know what frickin spider-man comis you are reading.. or better yet.. WHAT the hell you're smoking while reading them) t: that Peter breaks out dancing??? LOL

Let's see:

Death of Uncle Ben (Check.. No darkness there, and PLENTY of Quips... "HEY OLD MAN.. Guess that Car Jacker Revoked your License"...

Death of Gwen Stacy (Check.. No Darkness whatsoever) "Hey Gobby.. YOU KILLED THE ONLY WOMAN I EVER LOVED.. but hey.. Baby You NEVER looked Better"

Death of Capt Stacy (CHECK AGAIN.. NO DARKNESS.. NOPE.. all Carebears and Smurfs dancing here "Before you die Old Man.. I have this year old parking ticket.. could you do a brother a spare?"

Yep.. Spidey = CareBears and Dancin Ponies.

Ok, so you rather go back to the high school years then, which Sony is planning on doing, which makes really no sense to what your saying, and that's my point. We're not dealing with a different time in Peter's life where he might have matured and changed and became an adult, Sony is taking us all the way back to high school AGAIN and possibly just changing the dynamic of his personality. Nobody is acting like he needs to be a comedian, but the comics I READ weren't soap opera affairs where he's crying all the time either. He's a clown type of character, he jokes ALOT and nobody is going to mistake him for some brooding lunatic. I suggest you smoke something and come back to this debate with something to contribute worthwhile

 

[TheSlag]

wtf does "cheese" mean?

Dancing/Struttin Peter. Emo Peter trying to be Baaaad. Pretty much all of Hoffman's BS. ALL the Frickin Kiddos in the movies, Especially the kid sellin JJ the camera in the Final battle scene in SM3.

The announcer in SM3 final battle (cannot think about without rolling eyes)

JJ buying the cheap camera DURING the final battle.

and on.. and on.. and on...

 

[Aesop Rocks]

oh...

 

[TheSlag]

Ok, so you rather go back to the high school years then, which Sony is planning on doing, which makes really no sense to what your saying, and that's my point. We're not dealing with a different time in Peter's life where he might have matured and changed and became an adult, Sony is taking us all the way back to high school AGAIN and possibly just changing the dynamic of his personality. Nobody is acting like he needs to be a comedian, but the comics I READ weren't soap opera affairs where he's crying all the time either. He's a clown type of character, he jokes ALOT and nobody is going to mistake him for some brooding lunatic. I suggest you smoke something and come back to this debate with something to contribute worthwhile

And I suggest you read some real Spider-Man comic arcs.. starting with the ASM run.

Specifically the series leading up to the death of Gwen Stacy's arc.

and you would prefer they start where Peter is Mature? why, it's a reboot, so why NOT start where he is back at high school. Or did you miss that part during your reading too?

 

[Crook]

I hate the word too...but a lot of fanboys love it. The studio will listen to them, just like it listened when it gave them Venom.

I have the distinct feeling many who are challenging the use of the term don't even know what it means. Let me give a hand:

grit⋅ty

–adjective, -ti⋅er, -ti⋅est. 1. consisting of, containing, or resembling grit; sandy. 2. resolute and courageous; plucky.

grit·ty <a href=&quot;http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/ahd4WAV/G0274800/gritty&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;http://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; /></a> (gr&#301;t'&#275
adj. grit·ti·er, grit·ti·est

1. Containing, covered with, or resembling grit.
2. Showing resolution and fortitude; plucky: a gritty decision.

Praytell, how is this contradictory to the Spider-Man universe? I want to know, specifically, how this somehow betrays Parker's character.

 

[TheSlag]

/\... LOL.. YOU DID NOT.. just pull out the ole Webster Dictionary.. Did you??

LOL.. Good point.