The Amazing Spider-Man TDK is the REAL reason for the reboot

[Doc Samson]

And I suggest you read some real Spider-Man comic arcs.. starting with the ASM run.

Specifically the series leading up to the death of Gwen Stacy's arc.

and you would prefer they start where Peter is Mature? why, it's a reboot, so why NOT start where he is back at high school. Or did you miss that part during your reading too?

Lol, I read um, and own um. Nobody is saying he needs to be joking at the death of Gwen Stacy, or anything of that nature, I don't even understand what your arguing about when it comes to that. Nobody is confused there.

What I'm saying is, in those exact same stories your talking about, it's not like Peter Parker is a DIFFERENT PERSON with a different personality. The script is described as having TDK kind of tone to it. The studio describes the direction as gritty and dark. Go back and read those stories and tell me what part fit that description. Your trying to equate tragedy to something being more adult, and that's not even the argument. Uncle ben still died, Harry died, alot of people died in Raimi's flicks. They still dealt with adult themes, and through all that, Spiderman was still close to Spiderman. You act like you want to see him wearing a bandanna, suplexing people off buildings or something

 

[TheSlag]

Lol, I read um, and own um. Nobody is saying he needs to be joking at the death of Gwen Stacy, or anything of that nature, I don't even understand what your arguing about when it comes to that. Nobody is confused there.

What I'm saying is, in those exact same stories your talking about, it's not like Peter Parker is a DIFFERENT PERSON with a different personality. The script is described as having TDK kind of tone to it. The studio describes the direction as gritty and dark. Go back and read those stories and tell me what part fit that description. Your trying to equate tragedy to something being more adult, and that's not even the argument. Uncle ben still died, Harry died, alot of people died in Raimi's flicks. They still dealt with adult themes, and through all that, Spiderman was still close to Spiderman. You act like you want to see him wearing a bandanna, suplexing people off buildings or something

Where did I say that.. please quote it. Please. I am simply (so as to NOT confuse) saying that Spider-Man has always had serious story arcs.. and NO, I have never read one where Peter broke out dancing.

And that is what the TDK tone or howerver you want to read it comes off to me. More serious storylines, and not the Cringe worthy, kid Friendly BS.

I suggest you read Crook's post that "defines" gritty. It might help. One can ONLY hope.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Acting.

I don't think a guy talknig in a growling force is good acting. Spider-Man is NOT Batman. This film should not be like TDK. Period.

If only Sony realized this. We'd be getting a sequel, which was the best choice all along. But nooo, sony has to go and f*** that up...for money. That's all they're trying to do.

 

[Doc Samson]

Where did I say that.. please quote it. Please. I am simply (so as to NOT confuse) saying that Spider-Man has always had serious story arcs.. and NO, I have never read one where Peter broke out dancing.

And that is what the TDK tone or howerver you want to read it comes off to me.

I suggest you read Crook's post that "defines" gritty. It might help. One can ONLY hope.

The dancing was funny to me, I don't care what you say about it, me and the whole theatre laughed, and there's plenty of comic books where Peter Parker does things just as cheesy. He's a cheesy character, point blank period, you can try to spin it anyway you want to, that's the bottomline. His arcs deal with adult themes, and he's been through tragedies, and the whole time, the book was still pretty cheesy in comparison to almost any other title Marvel has.

There was nothing that wasn't serious about the themes in any of Raimi's flicks, at some point, how more serious do you want to make it? And is it really better?

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

The dancing was funny to me, I don't care what you say about it, me and the whole theatre laughed, and there's plenty of comic books where Peter Parker does things just as cheesy. He's a cheesy character, point blank period, you can try to spin it anyway you want to, that's the bottomline. His arcs deal with adult themes, and he's been through tragedies, and the whole time, the book was still pretty cheesy in comparison to almost any other title Marvel has.

There was nothing that wasn't serious about the themes in any of Raimi's flicks, at some point, how more serious do you want to make it? And is it really better?

Sums my thoughts up perfectly.

 

[TheSlag]

The dancing was funny to me, I don't care what you say about it, me and the whole theatre laughed, and there's plenty of comic books where Peter Parker does things just as cheesy. He's a cheesy character, point blank period, you can try to spin it anyway you want to, that's the bottomline. His arcs deal with adult themes, and he's been through tragedies, and the whole time, the book was still pretty cheesy in comparison to almost any other title Marvel has.

There was nothing that wasn't serious about the themes in any of Raimi's flicks, at some point, how more serious do you want to make it? And is it really better?

Well. Guess we will have to agree to disagree on the dancing. Cause it makes me cringe. Plain and simple. Especially when that is Raimi's take on the Symbiote influencing Peter. Making him John Travolta. *gags*

Raimi depends on sight gags a lot. Always has, always will. And like the 3 stooges, who also rely a LOT on sight gags.. it gets OLD quick. Especially when done at critical points of the movie. For example, the hitting of MJ came after the damn Dancin on the bar and across chairs, and playin that fine Jazz .. which basically negated the impact of that scene. Period.

Terrible Film making.. Terrible.

I guess you (and the whole theater) laughed at Raimi's daughter sellin a cheapo camera to JJ during the Final battle to eh?? or REALLY BELLY laughed I bet at the "Film is Extra" line. God I hated that!

Guess we just have Different tastes when it comes to Spidey then.

And how much do I want.. I want it ALL. It's called being a fan.

Another question. So what made the Goblin Spidey's Arch Enemy in Raimi's Spider-Man? Because of his connection to Peter? Nope, EVERY FRICKIN villain seemed to have that. Heck.. Doc gave him the "Read em Poetry" LUVVVV ADVICE even *gags*

 

[batman11]

Man, the world would be a much simpler place if we just went back in time and killed Nolan. Honestly, just gun him down. The man is a monster. Who the **** does he think he is making quality films? Where the **** does he get off? Just makes me so damn mad. Grrrr.

I don't think a guy talknig in a growling force is good acting. Spider-Man is NOT Batman. This film should not be like TDK. Period.

No offense buddy, but this response is quite childish. If that's the element of the film that you wish to use to discredit the overall acting and performances in TDK, than I hope that someday you can break free of these simplistic, narrow-minded chains that restrict your ability to judge actors and actresses.

The dancing was funny to me, I don't care what you say about it, me and the whole theatre laughed...

Interesting. My whole theater began to riot and throw things at the screen. I guess that validates my personal opinion.

(Or....perhaps they weren't laughing for the same reasons you were.... t: I kid. I kid.)

 

[Doc Samson]

Well. Guess we will have to agree to disagree on the dancing. Cause it makes me cringe. Plain and simple. Especially when that is Raimi's take on the Symbiote influencing Peter. Making him John Travolta. *gags*

Raimi depends on sight gags a lot. Always has, always will. And like the 3 stooges, who also rely a LOT on sight gags.. it gets OLD quick. Especially when done at critical points of the movie. For example, the hitting of MJ came after the damn Dancin on the bar and across chairs, and playin that fine Jazz .. which basically negated the impact of that scene. Period.

Terrible Film making.. Terrible.

I guess you (and the whole theater) laughed at Raimi's daughter sellin a cheapo camera to JJ during the Final battle to eh?? or REALLY BELLY laughed I bet at the "Film is Extra" line. God I hated that!

Guess we just have Different tastes when it comes to Spidey then.

And how much do I want.. I want it ALL. It's called being a fan.

Another question. So what made the Goblin Spidey's Arch Enemy in Raimi's Spider-Man? Because of his connection to Peter? Nope, EVERY FRICKIN villain seemed to have that. Heck.. Doc gave him the "Read em Poetry" LUVVVV ADVICE even *gags*

I never said Raimi did everything right, and I also never said I was against a reboot, either. My problem was with the direction of this reboot, and the way they described that direction. The same way the description of the new Superman film was, before they shelved it, supposed to be in the same vain as TDK.

I didn't like how all the villains were sympathetic and attached to Peter in some way, I didn't like how his mask was off practically 100% of the time, and I certainly didn't like every single sight gag ever used in any Spiderman film to date. I never said any of those things, but the one thing I did enjoy, especially in SM3 was the tone. Out of all of them, it was the only one that felt fun to me, like a Spidey comic book come to life, with all it's cliche and cheese to go along with it. Like you said, we can have different taste and just agree to disagree, but to me, I don't go into Spiderman wanting to see deep, dark, serious, heavy stuff. I go in for the awe, the excitement, the wonder, the spectacle. After all, he is, the Spectacular Spiderman, not the beleagured Peter Parker

 

[Crook]

The dancing was funny to me, I don't care what you say about it, me and the whole theatre laughed, and there's plenty of comic books where Peter Parker does things just as cheesy. He's a cheesy character, point blank period, you can try to spin it anyway you want to, that's the bottomline. His arcs deal with adult themes, and he's been through tragedies, and the whole time, the book was still pretty cheesy in comparison to almost any other title Marvel has.

My stance on the comedy is all in the execution. I think we can all agree that there should still be laughs in there, but my position is that I don't want it to be portrayed in a *wink-wink, nudge-nudge*, in-your-face manner. It has to feel natural to me and go with the flow of the narrative.

Admittedly, I laughed in all the intended places for Raimi's films. But I still see it as flawed, because you could distinctly point out where the flow of the story stops, and almost as if by declaration, the director goes out of his way to paint a scene like "hey look at that clumsy Peter f**king up again! Ain't he a klutz?".

I don't mind the laughs and the light-hearted tone. But I do mind when the creative team slaps me over the head with it like I'm too dumb to notice it unless it's overt.

 

[bunk]

I don't think a guy talknig in a growling force is good acting.

No, It's not. Luckily TDK wasn't two and half hours of Bale growling.

Spider-Man is NOT Batman. This film should not be like TDK. Period.

Correct, the characters themselves do not share many similarities. This doesn't change the fact that BB and TDK have casts and performances that blow those from the Spiderman movies out of the water.

 

[Doc Samson]

My stance on the comedy is all in the execution. I think we can all agree that there should still be laughs in there, but my position is that I don't want it to be portrayed in a *wink-wink, nudge-nudge*, in-your-face manner. It has to feel natural to me and go with the flow of the narrative.

Admittedly, I laughed in all the intended places for Raimi's films. But I still see it as flawed, because you could distinctly point out where the flow of the story stops, and almost as if by declaration, the director goes out of his way to paint a scene like "hey look at that clumsy Peter f**king up again! Ain't he a klutz?".

I don't mind the laughs and the light-hearted tone. But I do mind when the creative team slaps me over the head with it like I'm too dumb to notice it unless it's overt.

I can understand where your coming from on that, and I guess if it were any other director doing it, I would have had the same issue. I kind of rationalized it as something quirky that fits Raimi's style as a director, not to mention the fact that, like I've stated before, I never viewed Spiderman as a type of movie where things like this couldn't happen.

IDK, I suppose it really comes down to what you prefer, as most things do concerning comics with years and years of history. Personally, as long as I feel like I'm watching Spiderman, and not something else, all those other things won't matter in the long run anyhow...

 

[samsnee]

Can we all just say that TDK is the REAL reason for everything that existed, does exist, and ever will exist so we can retire this meme once and for all?

 

[Doc Samson]

Can we all just say that TDK is the REAL reason for everything that existed, does exist, and ever will exist so we can retire this meme once and for all?

Of course not, but topics like this will stop existing when the studio stops using words like gritty and dark for a story about a teenage nerd with spider-like powers. TDK has already been used as the basis for the description of the script. I didn't say it, you didn't say it, THEY said it, so what other conclusion is there for this reboot, if the people rebooting it, clearly state what the inspiration is for their new tone and direction?

 

[Pythagoras]

Guess Spiderman will be growling the whole reboot film shouting at people.

 

[batman11]

Of course not, but topics like this will stop existing when the studio stops using words like gritty and dark for a story about a teenage nerd with spider-like powers. TDK has already been used as the basis for the description of the script. I didn't say it, you didn't say it, THEY said it, so what other conclusion is there for this reboot, if the people rebooting it, clearly state what the inspiration is for their new tone and direction?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but were the words "Dark Knight" ever even used in conjunction with each other by a representative of Sony?

 

[Doc Samson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but were the words "Dark Knight" ever even used in conjunction with each other by a representative of Sony?

I never said they did, re-read the statement that you quoted, but it was used by people who've seen the script. I also ask you to explain to me exactly what is "gritty" or "dark" about Spiderman, in any capacity? Those words have been used by a representative of Sony

 

[Frodo]

Can we all just say that TDK is the REAL reason for everything that existed, does exist, and ever will exist so we can retire this meme once and for all?

Exactly! The Beatles Break up....The Dark Knight. Simon leaving American Idol...Dark Knight. Avatar making a fortune...There's goes Nolan again!

Seriously , I think Spectacular Spiderman ,Twilight, yes I know fanboys don't like it but girls do , and even Star Trek played just as big a role in the reboot of a francise that was going to happen anyway. Had there been a Spiderman 4, there would still be complaints about a reboot after that.

 

[Doc Samson]

Exactly! The Beatles Break up....The Dark Knight. Simon leaving American Idol...Dark Knight. Avatar making a fortune...There's goes Nolan again!

Seriously , I think Spectacular Spiderman ,Twilight, yes I know fanboys don't like it but girls do , and even Star Trek played just as big a role in the reboot of a francise that was going to happen anyway. Had there been a Spiderman 4, there would still be complaints about a reboot after that.

Once again, I can't speak for everyone else, but the reboot idea itself isn't the problem and never was, nor is it the basis of this thread. The issue is the fact that they stated they wanted a Spiderman with a dark, gritty tone, the absolute last words in the world anybody would associate with Spiderman

 

[TheSlag]

I never said they did, re-read the statement that you quoted, but it was used by people who've seen the script. I also ask you to explain to me exactly what is "gritty" or "dark" about Spiderman, in any capacity? Those words have been used by a representative of Sony

And again I wll point out (although you will ignore it or take a totally different tact and say Spider-Man is supposed to be dorky):

1. Death of Uncle Ben
2. Harry doing drugs
3. Death of Norman Osborn
4. Death of Capt Stacy
5. Peter's Love Hating his alter-ego, and blaming Spidey for the death of her father
6. Black Spider-Man
7. Symbiote Induced Peter Parker
8. Death of Aunt May (ok.. that never happened but Damn was the story moving)
9. Brother vs. Brother (greatness)
10. Death of Brother (GG2 - Harry)
11. GG1 - Battling a father figure
12. Connors Storyline - Another "family" member in peril

and lastly (there are others too) but DEFINITELY not LEAST:

Death of Gwen Stacy (the only girl Peter ever loved at the time) at the hands of his arch enemy. Where the story goes FULL circle. Where Peter DID NOT use his powers responsibly and Lost his beloved Uncle... to Where despite ALL his powers.. the ONE he loved the most paid the ultimate price.

*Greatness*

And ALL.. have varying degrees of "grittiness" and "darkness".

All that and a bag of chips, PLUS moments of Pure Joy and Entertainment... ALL wrapped up in ONE Superhero Saga...


The Best Superhero.. Bar None.

 

[TheSlag]

Exactly! The Beatles Break up....The Dark Knight. Simon leaving American Idol...Dark Knight. Avatar making a fortune...There's goes Nolan again!

WAIT.. WAIT.. WAIT!!!!


Simon Left AMERICAN IDOL!?!?!?!? SAY IT AIN'T SO JOE

 

[Gilpesh]

Wait. The real reason for the remake is TDK? So it isn't that Spider-man 3 critically sucked and that it seemed that Raimi might deliver another one just like it?

 

[Doc Samson]

And again I wll point out (although you will ignore it or take a totally different tact and say Spider-Man is supposed to be dorky):

1. Harry doing drugs
2. Death of Uncle Ben
3. Death of Norman Osborn
4. Death of Capt Stacy
5. Peter's Love Hating his alter-ego, and blaming Spidey for the death of her father
6. Black Spider-Man
7. Symbiote Induced Peter Parker
8. Death of Aunt May (ok.. that never happened but Damn was the story moving)
9. Brother vs. Brother (greatness)
10. Death of Brother (GG2 - Harry)
11. GG1 - Battling a father figure
12. Connors Storyline - Another "family" member in peril

and lastly (there are others too) but DEFINITELY not LEAST:

Death of Gwen Stacy (the only girl Peter ever loved at the time) at the hands of his arch enemy. Where the story goes FULL circle. Where Peter DID NOT use his powers responsibly and Lost his beloved Uncle... to Where despite ALL his powers.. the ONE he loved the most paid the ultimate price.

*Greatness*

And ALL.. have varying degrees of "grittiness" and "darkness".

All that and a bag of chips, PLUS moments of Pure Joy and Entertainment... ALL wrapped up in ONE Superhero Sage...


The Best Superhero.. Bar None.

Once again, your equating tragedy to gritty or dark tone, which isn't the case. Half of those things have been done in Raimi's films already anyway, and I don't think they were anywhere close to gritty films.

Facing tragedy is the focal point of spiderman's story, nobody is arguing that. I'm talking about the film as a whole, taking on a edgier, more brooding approach, which is what I'm going off of based on their remarks. Spiderman as a character was never brooding or edgy or dark or gritty or none of that in any of those stories your talking about, and if he isn't that way in the next film, than all is well

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

And again I wll point out (although you will ignore it or take a totally different tact and say Spider-Man is supposed to be dorky):

7. Symbiote Induced Peter Parker

....the symbiote never turned him evil man

 

[Doc Samson]

Wait. The real reason for the remake is TDK? So it isn't that Spider-man 3 critically sucked and that it seemed that Raimi might deliver another one just like it?

critically sucking and financially sucking are two different things, and judging by twilight, transformers, and the other crap being pumped out these days, do you really think they're concerned with that? SM3 is quite possibly the most successful film to ever have a reboot, and it's the biggest of the whole trilogy in worldwide revenue, if they didn't think edgy and dark was what the public would pay to see now, trust me, Spiderman 4 would have went right along without Raimi, Dunst, Maguire or any other principal member of the cast

 

[TheSlag]

Once again, your equating tragedy to gritty or dark tone, which isn't the case. Half of those things have been done in Raimi's films already anyway, and I don't think they were anywhere close to gritty films.

Facing tragedy is the focal point of spiderman's story, nobody is arguing that. I'm talking about the film as a whole, taking on a edgier, more brooding approach, which is what I'm going off of based on their remarks. Spiderman as a character was never brooding or edgy or dark or gritty or none of that in any of those stories your talking about, and if he isn't that way in the next film, than all is well

Then you have not read those comic arcs. Plain and simple. Because there was grittiness and darkness in many, if not all of those storylines. Peter was DEFINITELY Brooding in the Stacy comic arcs listed above.

But you go back to enjoy your dancing/Clumsy/Clutsy Peter Parker/Spider-Man. Me, I will GLADLY wait for the Reboot to see the real Spider-Man story unfold.

And yes, Raimi covered a few of those bases, watered down though they were.