Terminator: Genisys - Part 8

[DA_Champion]

Jay Beezy the above explains my point more.

Exactamundo, that's why Skynet waited for the T-800 and Kyle to be sent back to spring its trap and take over John, it needs John to grow up with the memories he has and it needs the T-800's chip in 1984 so it can be created. This is all in the movie as well as the previous ones.

But the T-800's chip is no longer in 1984 and John no longer has any of these memories.

 

[DA_Champion]

I can't get over how dumb the fight with the original T-800 is.

First of all, if "you've been waiting for him" why did you bring such a crappy gun, at risk of harming yourself?

Second, why does the original T-800 compromise his mission by taking on an equal in a fist fight head on, which means a 50% chance minimum of losing everything? The odds may be higher as this surprising opposing force could have back up. Really the original T-800 needs to evade.

Then Pops gets smacked around, and he waits for Sarah to take the final shot. It was dumb and unnecessary to leave Sarah exposed like that. What if there had been a small problem? She could have died.

It would have made a lot more sense for Pops to just hit the T-800 with a better gun.

 

[DA_Champion]

Also Pops is really confused.

"Have you mated with Kyle Reese yet?"

It needs to be the same sperm with the same egg or else it won't be John Connor.

 

[doobie]

Maybe Pops needed to get the bad terminator away from the punks, I assume Pops is programmed to not harm bystanders. I guess Pops also thinks any child parented by Sarah and Kyle and raised right is good enough to be the prophet.

And if you accept the film's implication that Pops has somehow become emotional/sentimental (ie the pictures on his wall), then it makes sense that he would enjoy the challenge of the fight.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The future John does though because he already exists, the timeline wasn't changed until Kyle was sent back hence why Kyle had new memories as well as his existing ones.

Due to Skynets new strategy John will now try to ensure Skynets creation by helping Danny Dyson create the Genysis programme in 2017. It's all done as a new strategy by Skynet to ensure it wins against the humans once the future comes around again.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

The sniper rifle was a Barrett M82 ( or something close ), it is an anti-material gun ( it hits hard ).
Anyway, you put too much thoughts on the movie, that's why some people can't enjoy movies anymore.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The gun was a Barrett M82 ( or something close ), it is an anti-material gun ( it hits hard ).
Anyway, you put too much thoughts on the movie, that's why some people can't enjoy movies anymore.

Yep, it was probably a as good a gun he could use in close quarters, Sarah was miles away with a large sniper rifle for back up which was needed in the end.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

^^
I was talking about Sarah sniper rifle. Will edit post for clarity.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^^
I was talking about Sarah sniper rifle. Will edit post for clarity.

Ah right, well even so Sarah was there for back up should anything go wrong, and she was out of harms way.

 

[phillyboy]

Jay Beezy the above explains my point more.

Exactamundo, that's why Skynet waited for the T-800 and Kyle to be sent back to spring its trap and take over John, it needs John to grow up with the memories he has and it needs the T-800's chip in 1984 so it can be created. This is all in the movie as well as the previous ones.

But even then, its still flawed.

The second Kyle went back, John should've disappeared- whether he was man or machine at that moment. Sarah & Kyle didn't conceive John in the new timeline, so he was never born. The fact that they can have a conversation with their son in 2017 that was (apparently) born in 1985, even though he was never conceived, makes no sense whatsoever.

Not to mention, the instant the first terminator was sent back (in the first movie & TG), John would've seised to exist- the past would've changed in that single moment. The T-800 would've killed Sarah & John wouldn't be born. IMO, whoever goes back in time first, wins. Which is why you can't change the past- it changes the future & erases the original time leap to the past (a time paradox).

 

[dark_b]

Skynet can't kill John. If John isn't created, then the terminator never gets sent back in time, destroyed by Sarah & Reese in the factory, and then have its parts used for research that creates Skynet. If we're talking a single timeline, John is the reason Skynet exists. TG talked about the timeline splitting at an important event. It must have split multiple times for so many different T-Xxx's to be sent back in time to kill one of the Connors. Yet John always creates the resistance and Skynet is always defeated. Doesn't that still point to a single timeline?

i forgot. but since when does Skynet know this?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

But even then, its still flawed.

The second Kyle went back, John should've disappeared- whether he was man or machine at that moment. Sarah & Kyle didn't conceive John in the new timeline, so he was never born. The fact that they can have a conversation with their son in 2017 that was (apparently) born in 1985, even though he was never conceived, makes no sense whatsoever.

Not to mention, the instant the first terminator was sent back (in the first movie & TG), John would've seised to exist- the past would've changed in that single moment. The T-800 would've killed Sarah & John wouldn't be born. IMO, whoever goes back in time first, wins. Which is why you can't change the past- it changes the future & erases the original time leap to the past (a time paradox).

Time travel in general is flawed, there are always paradox's when movies use them, this is even the case with some aspects of the first 2 movies.

Time travel is not an exact science, so who's to say John would disappear there and then? Essentially he has already been created as he is there leading the humans and sending Kyle back. Its only after he is attacked that the timeline changes so he still exists and once he is taken over Skynet sends a Terminator back to attack Sarah. But someone sent pops back to protect her.

John will still be created, just at a later date as Kyle and Sarah both know he has to be.

 

[DA_Champion]

Actually time travel is used exactly perfectly in the first movie, it's a single closed causal loop with no contradictions within it.

 

[TeeKay]

Actually time travel is used exactly perfectly in the first movie, it's a single closed causal loop with no contradictions within it.

Thank you. The plot of this flick makes no sense and often relies on "just because" and totally glossing over important information because there needs to be a sequel. Film was awfully written. There's no two ways about. One may like the film but to actually defend some of the aspects of of the films that it failed to explain properly ends up resorting to the "time travel" is complicated arguments when the first film and other films have done it better.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Actually time travel is used exactly perfectly in the first movie, it's a single closed causal loop with no contradictions within it.

Oh I agree, its the best of the franchise for me and always will be, but T2 was where complications were brought in and the following sequels have continued that. T2 is an amazing movie but the time travel aspects don't make sense. If they stop JD, John should disappear as Kyle will never be sent back.

 

[Jay Beezy]

So Skynet needs John now yet it still sends the T-800 back to kill Sarah.

And Skynet needs the T-800 chip to be acquired by Cyberdyne in order for Skynet to be created, yet what happens to that chip in Genisys?

Like it's been said, if you require multiple universes to justify these plot points, you sacrifice narrative stakes because you could easily have other universes where everything and everyone is fine.

 

[TeeKay]

So Skynet needs John now yet it still sends the T-800 back to kill Sarah.

And Skynet needs the T-800 chip to be acquired by Cyberdyne in order for Skynet to be created, yet what happens to that chip in Genisys?

Like it's been said, if you require multiple universes to justify these plot points, you sacrifice narrative stakes because you could easily have other universes where everything and everyone is fine.

The plot of Genisys....

EDIT: The original T-800 chip is used to send Kyle annd Connor in 2017 because it some how the key they needed for the time travel machine. LOL

 

[Jay Beezy]

The plot of Genisys....

EDIT: The original T-800 chip is used to send Kyle annd Connor in 2017 because it some how the key they needed for the time travel machine. LOL

My question about the T-800 chip was rhetorical. Lol

 

[phillyboy]

Oh I agree, its the best of the franchise for me and always will be, but T2 was where complications were brought in and the following sequels have continued that. T2 is an amazing movie but the time travel aspects don't make sense. If they stop JD, John should disappear as Kyle will never be sent back.

They should've explored this in T2, could've been interesting to see how it would've played out- stop judgement day, lose your son... keep your son, billions need to die.

 

[phillyboy]

Thank you. The plot of this flick makes no sense and often relies on "just because" and totally glossing over important information because there needs to be a sequel. Film was awfully written. There's no two ways about. One may like the film but to actually defend some of the aspects of of the films that it failed to explain properly ends up resorting to the "time travel" is complicated arguments when the first film and other films have done it better.

 

[DA_Champion]

This plot is nonsensical on both a micro and macro level.

Most individual scenes make no sense, like when the T-1000 stands pat as a mirror in front of Kyle Reese rather than killing him.

Even if you assume the individual scenes, they don't go well together.

This is a truly remarkable failure.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

^^
Like when the Termi in T1 doesn't kill Kyle and Sarah after the car crash and just flee the scene
If everything made sense there would be no movie.

 

[TeeKay]

My question about the T-800 chip was rhetorical. Lol

Sorry. But yeah, the movie sucked. And when could the T-800 regrow human flesh? Did I miss something?

 

[DA_Champion]

^^
Like when the Termi in T1 doesn't kill Kyle and Sarah after the car crash and just flee the scene
If everything made sense there would be no movie.

You can easily explain that one, and even if you can't the first Terminator doesn't have 100+ such logical errors.

*************

I see the defenders of this movie are now saying "logic has no value". If you're saying that maybe you should reflect on your entire argument.

 

[vanson]

Also Pops is really confused.

"Have you mated with Kyle Reese yet?"

It needs to be the same sperm with the same egg or else it won't be John Connor.

some of those kinda problems you could make sense with when you look at it how Star Trek treated those things. They said the new timeline would try to fix itself, so specific events are bound to happen but maybe just a little bit different. Robert Orci said that in an Screenwriting Q&A once, i dont think its specifically explained in the movie.

But still, its all a freakin mess ^^