The Last Jedi TFA vs TLJ

[jmart]

In the episode of the Star Wars Show that discusses the Easter eggs in the film, they mention that when Luke puts the dice in Leia’s hand, that’s when she realizes that he’s not actually there. You can see her look up at him when it happens like she’s realized something was off.

I know he’s not there, but his lips physically touched her forehead when he kisses her goodbye. When his lips touched, shouldn’t that have revealed him as a hologram?

Maybe it was a gaffe or a cheat, but I didn’t pick up on that until today. Still remains my favorite scene in the film though.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

I know...a Jedi Master using the Force? What’s up with that??

Oh, so suddenly we don't need to bother with the ethics of how they use the Force? We should get Rey murdering people with Force Lightning in Ep IX then, while still being a good girl.

(if you're pretending not to understand my point you're getting nothing but the same poor form back.)

 

[danoyse]

Oh, so suddenly we don't need to bother with the ethics of how they use the Force? We should get Rey murdering people with Force Lightning in Ep IX then, while still being a good girl.

(if you're pretending not to understand my point you're getting nothing but the same poor form back.)

A Jedi Master used the Force. What part of this is confusing?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Luke did talk to her in person in a manner of speaking. He wasn't just a voice in her head. Further, I think Leia is happy Luke was not in person so that his plan would actually work and they'd live, LOL.

 

[wampa1]

Further, I think Leia is happy Luke was not in person so that his plan would actually work and they'd live, LOL.

And also so she wouldn't have to watch him die.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

A Jedi Master used the Force. What part of this is confusing?

The part where you keep pretending that my point is hard to get when it's a very simple post. If you actually don't get that the question is about ethics and decency, despite that I clearly spelled that out, then there's some flaw in the displayed reading comprehension.

As an unrelated note your comment is pretty funny in the light of the Jedi Master actually specifically didn't use the Force for all these years to help anyone that's in danger from the new dark lord and Luke's failure of an apprentice.

 

[danoyse]

The part where you keep pretending that my point is hard to get when it's a very simple post. If you actually don't get that the question is about ethics and decency, despite that I clearly spelled that out, then there's some flaw in the displayed reading comprehension.

As an unrelated note your comment is pretty funny in the light of the Jedi Master actually specifically didn't use the Force for all these years to help anyone that's in danger from the new dark lord and Luke's failure of an apprentice.

Your original post was easy to understand. The point seemed lost.

You were disappointed that Luke met with Leia via the Force, rather than in person. Except that Luke is a Jedi Master. Using the Force is sort of their thing. And not because it’s more convenient, it’s because it’s...sort of the whole point of the Jedi that’s been explained to us in virtually every SW movie.

Luke and Leia have communicated via the Force since the Empire Strikes Back. Yes, Luke closed himself off from the Force due to his failure with Ben, but once he reached out again, he searched for Leia, and she reached right back. Again, it’s sort of their thing.

Luke told Rey at the start of the film that showing up with a laser sword and taking on the whole First Order wouldn’t work. And he was right. His physical form would never have survived that assault. But the way he did appear gave him the opportunity to re-embrace his connection with the Force, make amends with Leia, take on the First Order with a laser sword, and give the Resistance their chance to escape.

Showing up in person wouldn’t have done that. The Force allowed him to do what he did.

You may not have liked that, and that’s fine (and I’m sure there will be 47 follow-up posts from the usual suspects as to why they didn’t like it either). But still...using the Force is sort of their thing.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Luke literally used the Force to appear to his sister from across the galaxy. To give her, Rey and others hope and a chance. In terms of myth, it is of the highest quality.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Luke literally used the Force to appear to his sister from across the galaxy. To give her, Rey and others hope and a chance. In terms of myth, it is of the highest quality.

Agreed. its quite possibly my fave ending to a star wars movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Your original post was easy to understand. The point seemed lost.

You were disappointed that Luke met with Leia via the Force, rather than in person. Except that Luke is a Jedi Master. Using the Force is sort of their thing. And not because it’s more convenient, it’s because it’s...sort of the whole point of the Jedi that’s been explained to us in virtually every SW movie.

Luke and Leia have communicated via the Force since the Empire Strikes Back. Yes, Luke closed himself off from the Force due to his failure with Ben, but once he reached out again, he searched for Leia, and she reached right back. Again, it’s sort of their thing.

Luke told Rey at the start of the film that showing up with a laser sword and taking on the whole First Order wouldn’t work. And he was right. His physical form would never have survived that assault. But the way he did appear gave him the opportunity to re-embrace his connection with the Force, make amends with Leia, take on the First Order with a laser sword, and give the Resistance their chance to escape.

Showing up in person wouldn’t have done that. The Force allowed him to do what he did.

You may not have liked that, and that’s fine (and I’m sure there will be 47 follow-up posts from the usual suspects as to why they didn’t like it either). But still...using the Force is sort of their thing.

Do you mean like the usual suspects who jump in to defend it at every opportunity?

 

[danoyse]

Do you mean like the usual suspects who jump in to defend it at every opportunity?

Yes. We’re having shirts made.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yes. We’re having shirts made.

Good idea t:

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Your original post was easy to understand. The point seemed lost.

You were disappointed that Luke met with Leia via the Force, rather than in person. Except that Luke is a Jedi Master. Using the Force is sort of their thing. And not because it’s more convenient, it’s because it’s...sort of the whole point of the Jedi that’s been explained to us in virtually every SW movie.

Luke and Leia have communicated via the Force since the Empire Strikes Back. Yes, Luke closed himself off from the Force due to his failure with Ben, but once he reached out again, he searched for Leia, and she reached right back. Again, it’s sort of their thing.

Luke told Rey at the start of the film that showing up with a laser sword and taking on the whole First Order wouldn’t work. And he was right. His physical form would never have survived that assault. But the way he did appear gave him the opportunity to re-embrace his connection with the Force, make amends with Leia, take on the First Order with a laser sword, and give the Resistance their chance to escape.

Showing up in person wouldn’t have done that. The Force allowed him to do what he did.

You may not have liked that, and that’s fine (and I’m sure there will be 47 follow-up posts from the usual suspects as to why they didn’t like it either). But still...using the Force is sort of their thing.

Your comment is like saying that a nerd usually video chats and sends texts so it's fine for him to avoid people and talk about serious issues through doing that. There's no one ever that's said that breaking up with someone over a text, which is standard fare communication, is a dick move, right? Just because you know how to perform some sort of communication doesn't mean it's socially acceptable in every situation.

Luke just didn't have any sort of decency or responsibility later in life. He didn't just fail to do the decent thing of looking the people he failed in the eye, he also completely abandoned them to fend for themselves against both his failure and the threat that is a Jedi Master's prime duty to protect against. Did he even apologize for not even trying to deal with Snoke at all?

Regarding what he could have done in person, there's nothing saying that we have to have a scene that works with him being there. You're thinking completely backwards in terms of how writing works. If they wanted Luke to man up and finally make some decent amends to his failures they would write a scene where that works. You see, a writer actually has some control over the words he puts down and this scene had nothing to do with what Abrams wrote in TFA so it was completely under Rian's control.

Do you mean like the usual suspects who jump in to defend it at every opportunity?

So true. But I guess it makes for such good forum atmosphere to shame people for discussing movies they didn't like.

 

[danoyse]

Good idea t:

Haha...and seriously, no offense intended with the earlier comment, but it does feel like both sides are at an impasse at this point when it comes to what either side thought of the movie.

And I feel for Rian Johnson, tbh. The movie came out over a month ago, and I don’t think he can tweet about the nice breakfast he had without at least dozen people demanding to know why Holdo didn’t tell Poe about the escape plan.

 

[danoyse]

Your comment is like saying that a nerd usually video chats and sends texts so it's fine for him to avoid people and talk about serious issues through doing that. There's no one ever that's said that breaking up with someone over a text, which is standard fare communication, is a dick move, right? Just because you know how to perform some sort of communication doesn't mean it's socially acceptable in every situation.

No, I said that this was Star Wars, where a Jedi uses the Force to do things like this. So I wasn’t disappointed that Luke used the Force to do something like what he did. Seemed in line with what we know about the Jedi.

However, I agree that if Luke had texted Leia, it would have been rude, and wouldn’t have helped the Resistance at all. I mean...would he even have service on Ahch-To?

Luke just didn't have any sort of decency or responsibility later in life. He didn't just fail to do the decent thing of looking the people he failed in the eye, he also completely abandoned them to fend for themselves against both his failure and the threat that is a Jedi Master's prime duty to protect against. Did he even apologize for not even trying to deal with Snoke at all?

Yeah, you see...that was the story of the film. Luke screwed up. Then he faced his mistakes, showed up and saved everyone. Have you seen this movie?

Regarding what he could have done in person, there's nothing saying that we have to have a scene that works with him being there. You're thinking completely backwards in terms of how writing works. If they wanted Luke to man up and finally make some decent amends to his failures they would write a scene where that works. You see, a writer actually has some control over the words he puts down and this scene had nothing to do with what Abrams wrote in TFA so it was completely under Rian's control.

Have you seen this film?

So true. But I guess it makes for such good forum atmosphere to shame people for discussing movies they didn't like.

Not at all. It’s fine if you didn’t like the movie. You can post your displeasure as much as you want, as long as you stay civil about it. My point is that most of us regulars will likely have the same disagreements about it over and over about the same things.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yes. We’re having shirts made.

Why was I not made aware of this?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Haha...and seriously, no offense intended with the earlier comment, but it does feel like both sides are at an impasse at this point when it comes to what either side thought of the movie.

And I feel for Rian Johnson, tbh. The movie came out over a month ago, and I don’t think he can tweet about the nice breakfast he had without at least dozen people demanding to know why Holdo didn’t tell Poe about the escape plan.

Johnson would have been aid handsomely, and other only that but he didn’t have to make the choices he did with this movie. I know some people thought it was ‘daring’ or whatever, but half the time it felt to me that he made certain choices just to be different.

I do t hate the guy or have anything against him. But I don’t have sympathy for him a thing the same time.

 

[danoyse]

Why was I not made aware of this?

I found the Ahch-To Island Lego set last night, so I got a little distracted. (I mean, c’mon...it even has a porg minifigure!)

 

[danoyse]

Johnson would have been aid handsomely, and other only that but he didn’t have to make the choices he did with this movie. I know some people thought it was ‘daring’ or whatever, but half the time it felt to me that he made certain choices just to be different.

I do t hate the guy or have anything against him. But I don’t have sympathy for him a thing the same time.

But we’re in agreement that the man should be able to post about hosting an American Graffiti screening without getting besieged by foul-mouthed trolls screaming their dislike of TLJ, right?

That attitude reeks of the “George Lucas raped my childhood” era, and no form of it is acceptable.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

But we’re in agreement that the man should be able to post about hosting an American Graffiti screening without getting besieged by foul-mouthed trolls screaming their dislike of TLJ, right?

That attitude reeks of the “George Lucas raped my childhood” era, and no form of it is acceptable.

Oh yeah totally in agreement, I love movies, hence me being here, an have been a Star Wars fan since being a child, but never once has it entered my head to badmouth the guy.

 

[danoyse]

Oh yeah totally in agreement, I love movies, hence me being here, an have been a Star Wars fan since being a child, but never once has it entered my head to badmouth the guy.

I was at SW Celebration, and he showed up and surprised everyone camped out for the TLJ panel. He stayed for 4 hours, and went down the entire line signing autographs and taking pictures with everyone. I wasn’t on the line, but people talked about it all weekend and were so psyched about it. Two guys on our flight home we’re still wearing their badges and showing everyone the autographs they got.

And I’m cringing now thinking a few of the folks who were on that line may be among those throwing a fit on Twitter now because they wound up not liking the movie.

It’s ok to not like a movie. It’s ok to try to engage with the guy on social media and discuss what you didn’t like. A few people have and he’s been pretty responsive.

But the flat-out attacking is unacceptable. It makes the entire fandom look bad.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I was at SW Celebration, and he showed up and surprised everyone camped out for the TLJ panel. He stayed for 4 hours, and went down the entire line signing autographs and taking pictures with everyone. I wasn’t on the line, but people talked about it all weekend and were so psyched about it. Two guys on our flight home we’re still wearing their badges and showing everyone the autographs they got.

And I’m cringing now thinking a few of the folks who were on that line may be among those throwing a fit on Twitter now because they wound up not liking the movie.

It’s ok to not like a movie. It’s ok to try to engage with the guy on social media and discuss what you didn’t like. A few people have and he’s been pretty responsive.

But the flat-out attacking is unacceptable. It makes the entire fandom look bad.

Agreed, and in fairness that stuff sounds pretty cool of Johnson. But he must have known there would be some backlash on his decisions. However, personal attacks are a big no, no for me.

 

[Agent Orange]

I was at SW Celebration, and he showed up and surprised everyone camped out for the TLJ panel. He stayed for 4 hours, and went down the entire line signing autographs and taking pictures with everyone. I wasn’t on the line, but people talked about it all weekend and were so psyched about it. Two guys on our flight home we’re still wearing their badges and showing everyone the autographs they got.

And I’m cringing now thinking a few of the folks who were on that line may be among those throwing a fit on Twitter now because they wound up not liking the movie.

It’s ok to not like a movie. It’s ok to try to engage with the guy on social media and discuss what you didn’t like. A few people have and he’s been pretty responsive.

But the flat-out attacking is unacceptable. It makes the entire fandom look bad.

The only fanbase that's as toxic as the Star Wars fanbase right now? Star Trek. They're finally in symmetry.

I'm not a fan of what they're doing with Discovery but the online fits are obscene. Clearly professional critics are able to move past what fans can't.

 

[Brother Jack]

Star Wars fandom has always been divisive. There's a great video by Mr. Sunday Movies that I can't link here called "Star Wars is Ruined" that describes in broad strokes the complaints leveled against the franchise since the beginning. The idea of being a fan in general, the word itself an abbreviation of fanatic, precludes over the top passion, both positive and negative. And Star Wars fans are some of the most passionate on earth; with 40 years of combined history, big ebbs and flows of output, and a very diverse reception to said output. There's practically no Star Wars fan on the planet that loves every Star Wars product equivalently. In fact, you could go as far as to say that to be a Star Wars fan is to hate it, at least in some measure. I know that's true for me.

It's insanity to think this movie ruined Star Wars. It's one movie, one filmmaker's vision. Star Wars is way, way too big to be toppled by that alone. Anyone who is claiming otherwise needs some perspective. Star Wars survived 20 years of no movies, and when it came back its trilogy was largely considered to be a failure and that there would never any more movies after. It will survive The Last Jedi, even if you think it's the absolute nadir of human creativity.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Blade Runner 2049 is everything TFA is not. An homage, a series of callbacks, but also its own film that builds on its predecessor. TFA is a very expensive rehash.