The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

[danoyse]

He's not the ONLY star in the movie. Read the above posts. Equal billing for Halle, and the prominance and fame of Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan. Why are they being shoved aside like that and not complaining?

Watch the original 1978 "Superman". Did you know that Christopher Reeve was listed 3rd in the opening credits? He may have been Superman, but he wasn't nearly as famous as Marlon Brando or Gene Hackman.

I don't think anyone was "shoved aside." On the contrary, I've read that it took two long phone conversations with Brett Ratner to convince Patrick Stewart that the series was in good hands--not where his name would appear in the credits.

Ian McKellen (who has been listed behind Hugh Jackman in the credits in all of the X-Men movies) has done nothing but praise X3 in every interview he's done. He even hosted the 7-minute sneak preview on Fox, and the clips shown before the network premiere of X2.

Hugh Jackman has stated in several interviews how, as a theater actor, how honored he is to be working with Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart. He's described it as the equivalent of working with "DeNiro and Pacino in 'Heat'". Hardly sounds like he was on a mission to run ahead of them in the credits.

 

[javon]

And that was meant to be one of the most important scenes for Scott. It establishes his role in the group, his place within the institute, as well as the heavy burden that he has been raised and trained to continue to carry on his shoulders. In addition, he's supposed to be a strong character, a heroic character. Like Xavier, he wouldn't say something unless he meant it, or make a promise that he didn't intend to keep.

Perfectly explained.

X1: Final scene between Xavier and Eric.

Eric: "The war is coming, Charles, and I intend to fight it any way I can"
Xavier: "And I will always be there, old friend..."

Whoops! Sorry Charles, but you got turned into salsa by your protege before you had a chance to "be there". So much for that promise.

OMG! LMFAO!

X2: Museum scene between Scott and Jean

Scott: "I won't let anything happen to you"

We all know how that turned out, don't we?

Sadly, yes.

Foreshadowing and promises don't work unless you actually intend to keep them and let chars carry them out. You reduce them to empty words and the chars to liars if things keep turning out this way. In fact the only char who was allowed to keep his promise was Wolverine, giving his dogtags to Marie at the end of X1 and promising he'll come back to get them. Imagine how cheap things would be if he just died between X1 and X2.

I don't see how they could actually miss that many stuff. [/quote]

 

[Hunter Rider]

Halle seems to fall into the "hot actresses can't act" category for a lot of people and her somewhat mixed offscreenm rep probably leads to the hate on her

With Hugh it's more about comic fans in general turning on Wolverine due to his overexposure and the fact Cyclops fans feel their fav was shortchanged to make Wolvie the main attraction

 

[javon]

Halle seems to fall into the "hot actresses can't act" category for a lot of people and her somewhat mixed offscreenm rep probably leads to the hate on her

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute...Halle can't act?! Please tell me you mean "comic" movies?

With Hugh it's more about comic fans in general turning on Wolverine due to his overexposure and the fact Cyclops fans feel their fav was shortchanged to make Wolvie the main attraction

With that, I really don't think it's jealousy. Cyclops should be before Wolverine. Period. If the writers say other wise, then they are just ******ed as their work.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute...Halle can't act?! Please tell me you mean "comic" movies?

That wasn't what i meant, for some if a women is hot then she automatically is a poor actress who has got her fame from her looks or at least that is their rationale,as for Halle's acting,it's ok in some movies

With that, I really don't think it's jealousy. Cyclops should be before Wolverine. Period. If the writers say other wise, then they are just ******ed as their work. [

Or they understand how to write for a wider audience

 

[ntcrawler]

Watch the original 1978 "Superman". Did you know that Christopher Reeve was listed 3rd in the opening credits? He may have been Superman, but he wasn't nearly as famous as Marlon Brando or Gene Hackman.

Yes I knew that. And that's an example of how to properly pay respect and give credit to the cast.

I don't think anyone was "shoved aside." On the contrary, I've read that it took two long phone conversations with Brett Ratner to convince Patrick Stewart that the series was in good hands

What does that have to do with his name not getting any billing?

--not where his name would appear in the credits.

Oh right. So the phone conversation had nothing to do with the way Patrick Stewart gets credit. Why are you mentioning it then?

He also talks on the phone to order pizza and takeout chinese food, neither of which have anything to do with him not getting any credit or billing either in promotional materials or on the front cover either, even though he plays one of the major cast members in the film.

Ian McKellen (who has been listed behind Hugh Jackman in the credits in all of the X-Men movies) has done nothing but praise X3 in every interview he's done. He even hosted the 7-minute sneak preview on Fox, and the clips shown before the network premiere of X2.

Good to hear... So how does that explain that in the latest round of promotional material, Hugh Jackman doesn't just get top billing, but he gets ONLY billing? "X-men: The Last Stand, starring Hugh Jackman". Period. Why doesn't anyone else get recognition? Especially actors as well established and known as Stewart and Jackman?

Hugh Jackman has stated in several interviews how, as a theater actor, how honored he is to be working with Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart. He's described it as the equivalent of working with "DeNiro and Pacino in 'Heat'". Hardly sounds like he was on a mission to run ahead of them in the credits.

OK...? And what does that have to do with him being the ONLY one who gets credit or being mentioned in the billing for the film? I never doubted that he wasn't good or a nice guy or his acting ability. Have you ever seen me put down Hugh?

 

[danoyse]

Yes I knew that. And that's an example of how to properly pay respect and give credit to the cast.

No, it's because they were more famous and got paid more--especially Brando.

What does that have to do with his name not getting any billing?

Just because his name isn't on a promotional piece for the movie doesn't mean he's not getting credited for it.

Oh right. So the phone conversation had nothing to do with the way Patrick Stewart gets credit. Why are you mentioning it then?

He also talks on the phone to order pizza and takeout chinese food, neither of which have anything to do with him not getting any credit or billing either in promotional materials or on the front cover either, even though he plays one of the major cast members in the film.

He wasn't ordering pizza or chinese food. He was making a decision on whether or not to come back...he didn't have to, and needed convincing. Seems like that was more important to him than how many times he was mentioned in the promotional materials.

Good to hear... So how does that explain that in the latest round of promotional material, Hugh Jackman doesn't just get top billing, but he gets ONLY billing? "X-men: The Last Stand, starring Hugh Jackman". Period. Why doesn't anyone else get recognition? Especially actors as well established and known as Stewart and Jackman?

Unlike Patrick Stewart...Hugh Jackman has 5 other movies out this year besides X3. He's having a very good year, and they're capitalizing on it. Hugh is the star of the movie, I think that's been established. And he has a much more substantial role than Patrick Stewart, who dies a third of the way into the movie.

You often see Harrison Ford's name ahead of Mark Hamill's in promotional materials for 'Star Wars' and one could argue Luke was far more important character.

 

[bosef982]

HalleHughHate
What's REALLY Going On Here?

By Lightning Strikez!​

I can keep silent no longer.

I've been quietly perusing this board during the last few weeks, and I've noticed an influx of threads complaining about how certain marquee players in this franchise need to "go away". In particular, two of the reasons this franchise has been successful--namely Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry--seem to be the target of most of these "anti" sentiments.

Now, maybe I saw a different X1 and X2 than some of you, but it seems that Berry (Storm) is only just now becoming a real player in this franchise. Despite the way she was marketed before, she played a supporting character in the prior films. She was billed 5th and 4th in them respectively, and unlike others, never received an origin story, nor a role in any of the romantic plots. Even in X3, she did not carry Scott's torch in his absence...she played second-in-command to Logan. So as critics have agreed, not much changed in her role from X1, to X2 to X3.

Yet, according to some of you, suddenly Halle's become this huge "problem" that threatens to eat up all the other X-Men's body parts!?? How did this happen? It can't be *only* about her salary because she always made more than the other actors--despite her comparatively minor role. And it can't be about screentime because--let's face it--she wasn't really more visible in X3 than X2 sans more action sequences (and much of her stuff was chopped--as usual).

So when putting it all in perspective, what is really accounting for all the hate? To see my point more clearly, let's consider two of the other top actors who--for some reason--are not receiving similiar backlash, shall we?

***​

* Famke Janssen's character certainly has had a substantial role (especially as part of the romantic twists in all three films) and moved up on the casting credits (to Halle's former position)--yet I don't hear people stating that she's eating up everyone else's screentime--even though she's gotten the most character development of the X-Women.

*Magneto's (Ian's) role in each film was consistently huge. In fact, prior to X3, he received top billing over TWO Oscar-winning actresses, and had more screentime than both of them yet again in X3. Yet, no one is complaining about him eating up everyone's screentime. No one is saying "Do we really need Ian?" Hmmmm....

So what is the REAL problem here? Why the disconnect?

Could it be that people are bent out of shape because their personal favorite characters were not treated the way they preferred? Are some of us simply angry and venting accordingly, even though the character dynamics have never really changed in 6 years (with Logan still front and center with everyone else supporting him)?

I sense jealousy...and maybe even hypocrisy in some of these posts....but I could be wrong. Would someone care to explain it to me?

WowI like how your singature about Lance Bassreinforces the apparent viability and predictability of homosexual stereotypical traits. Wonder how many nice gay jokes we'll get out of that one. Can't wait!

 

[The Batman]

You did say "ignorant Wolverine fanboys" did you not? It is said here all the time. Those three words have become inseparable now. And the term "[fill in blank with name of choice] loyalist has been tossed around a lot too.


And on the whole, who is over reacting, hmmm? I'm just trying to get things straight is all. Don't wanna be left out of the loop.

Ok Jan, I'm gonna say this in a way that you can understand...

I never mentioned loyalists. I mentioned ignorant wolverine fanboys. Those two things arent always the same. Do you understand me? Do I have to repeat it again? Just let me know, before you go into another overblown tirade about me.

 

[BMM]

Wow. This thread grew, and did I see JP? It’s nice to see familiar Hypsters every now and again.

Great Post...

Thanks.

BMM mentioned the balcony scene as an example of Halle's wasting valuable screentime to prove herself. What the hell? How so?

She didn't write the scene.

She didn't shoot it.

She didn't edit it.

So how is it a demonstration of Halle Berry blowing smoke for six years?

Sorry. I didn’t mean to insinuate that Berry herself is solely responsible for the lack of missed opportunities exemplified in my previous post. I don’t think I said she was. Essentially, what I was trying to get at, is that overall, after six years of dilemma, Berry clearly got the attention of the producers and studio regarding her concern for Storm . . . but once she had their attention, what changed about the character, or what changed Berry’s mind about the character’s portrayal in The Last Stand that wasn’t already present in the first two films? What did she benefit from? What did she capitalize on? In interviews, after having seen the film, Berry seems very happy with the way in which Storm is now portrayed. She even goes so far as to say that she now would like to do more X-Men movies. But what about her character improved? I don’t see it. After all of the fuss, I don’t see her character having changed much at all in The Last Stand . . . if any . . . and now Halle Berry is happy? Therefore, the only thing that I can come up with is that after all of the commotion, and little to no change, some people got annoyed along the way. I’m probably not very good at answering this question. I’m not a huge Halle Berry/Storm detractor, so I can’t tell you exactly what makes people tick regarding the situation. This is what I came up with though.

On a side note, if the balcony scene was shot with an explanation/origin scene that was later cut, that sucks. It seems like it would have fit the moment perfectly well, and it isn’t like it was going to hurt the movie’s running time.

Just a small response for BMM, Halle was asked over to come back for X2, she didn't want to and was convinced by producers because THEY wanted her. They were also willing to write her a more "fleshed out part" because she was RIGHT. Storm was a tool with no storyline.

I’m not sure exactly what this sentence is saying. Are you telling me that Halle Berry came back to film X2, because despite her not wanting to do it (when was this said?), the producers wanted her back and convinced her by providing her with a more fleshed out role?

If so, Halle Berry filmed X2 because, like the rest of the cast, she was contractually obligated to do so. She signed a two picture deal. It was either make the movie or be buried in litigation by FOX.

 

[Jan Irisi]

Ok Jan, I'm gonna say this in a way that you can understand...

I never mentioned loyalists. I mentioned ignorant wolverine fanboys. Those two things arent always the same. Do you understand me? Do I have to repeat it again? Just let me know, before you go into another overblown tirade about me.

You are really amusing you know that? A tirade? Where was this tirade? Hmmm?

I see no tirade.

And I never said you mentioned loyalists. I used your post that mentioned "ignorant Wolverine fanboys" and went from there. Do I really need to quote each and every post here? I am not playing guardball.


Now really, who is on a tirade? Getting a bit defensive over this aren't you?

 

[The Batman]

You are really amusing you know that? A tirade? Where was this tirade? Hmmm?

I see no tirade.

And I never said you mentioned loyalists. I used your post that mentioned "ignorant Wolverine fanboys" and went from there. Do I really need to quote each and every post here? I am not playing guardball.


Now really, who is on a tirade? Getting a bit defensive over this aren't you?

I'm sorry. I read your post wrong. It happens when I dont really give a damn about what another poster is saying.

Of course you see no tirade. Then you'd have to realize you're not the saint other people here make you out to be. I'm not defensive, its just that it seems you have a problem understanding my posts. Defensive is going on and on about how just because you're a wolverine fan it dosent make you ignorant, or whatever the hell you were trying to say.

 

[danoyse]

In interviews, after having seen the film, Berry seems very happy with the way in which Storm is now portrayed. She even goes so far as to say that she now would like to do more X-Men movies. But what about her character improved? I don’t see it. After all of the fuss, I don’t see her character having changed much at all in The Last Stand . . . if any . . . and now Halle Berry is happy? Therefore, the only thing that I can come up with is that after all of the commotion, and little to no change, some people got annoyed along the way. I’m probably not very good at answering this question. I’m not a huge Halle Berry/Storm detractor, so I can’t tell you exactly what makes people tick regarding the situation.

Agreed. A lot of the interviews I saw, it seemed she was just happy she got to fly in this movie. And I did read an interview where she talked about a scene that mentioned her origin, which appears to have been cut.

I really don't think she was looking to take over. I've read she just wanted to do more than fly the plane this time. Which she did get to do. It wasn't a takeover, it was just a little more for her to do.

She got ripped in the press right before X3 opened for apparently getting testy with a British radio DJ. But I listened to that interview, the DJ was an idiot. He talked about his own career for most of the interview, kept asking Hugh about the James Bond role he's not playing, and started doing his own gangster impression and said he'd have to sound "like a black guy."

Halle just commented..."Are we having a racist moment here?" Frankly both her and Hugh sounded a little annoyed at the whole interview at that point, because they had to listen to this guy and barely got to say a word about the movie. It wasn't a big deal.

But no...according to the news reports, it was all Halle's fault. That wasn't fair at all.

People just focus on her for some reason, I just don't get it. I saw X3 four times, and I never saw her stealing anyone else's thunder. She just got to fly...which was really cool.

 

[Jan Irisi]

I'm sorry. I read your post wrong. It happens when I dont really give a damn about what another poster is saying.

Of course you see no tirade. Then you'd have to realize you're not the saint other people here make you out to be. I'm not defensive, its just that it seems you have a problem understanding my posts. Defensive is going on and on about how just because you're a wolverine fan it dosent make you ignorant, or whatever the hell you were trying to say.

It was sarcasm, not a tirade. Get a dictionary. It really helps.

 

[The Batman]

It was sarcasm, not a tirade. Get a dictionary. It really helps.

I'm not wasting time trying to justify your silly rantings....

 

[Jan Irisi]

I'm not wasting time trying to justify your silly rantings....

So now they are rantings?

BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!

First tirades, and then rantings? What next?

 

[danoyse]

So now they are rantings?

BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!

First tirades, and then rantings? What next?

He didn't get a dictionary...he got a thesaurus instead!

OK, back to normal discussion...Jan, what do you think of the Halle/Hugh situation. Is it warranted, or the anger in the wrong place?

 

[The Batman]

So now they are rantings?

BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!

First tirades, and then rantings? What next?

Yup...and then next time you're gonna whine about the respect you're not getting, right?

 

[Jan Irisi]

He didn't get a dictionary...he got a thesaurus instead!

OK, back to normal discussion...Jan, what do you think of the Halle/Hugh situation. Is it warranted, or the anger in the wrong place?

I believe the anger is misplaced and significantly overblown. Hugh is guilty of being successful and making a mark and Halle is guilty of being...well, Halle. What I mean by that is that she is trapped in her own reputation, much of which is simply non-fact, exageration and hear-say.

 

[Jan Irisi]

Yup...and then next time you're gonna whine about the respect you're not getting, right?

Oh hell, I get plenty of respect.

Oh, I'm sorry...was that a rant or a tirade?

 

[The Batman]

Oh hell, I get plenty of respect.

Oh, I'm sorry...was that a rant or a tirade?

I dunno....i was too busy not paying attention

 

[Jan Irisi]

I dunno....i was too busy not paying attention

And yet......you QUOTED ME AND RESPONDED??????


Run along now.

 

[The Batman]

And yet......you QUOTED ME AND RESPONDED??????


Run along now.

I'd rather stay. The atmosphere here is quite interesting.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Oh hell, I get plenty of respect.

*Bows*

I have no idea what she's talking about...

*bows*

...What?

 

[danoyse]

I believe the anger is misplaced and significantly overblown. Hugh is guilty of being successful and making a mark and Halle is guilty of being...well, Halle. What I mean by that is that she is trapped in her own reputation, much of which is simply non-fact, exageration and hear-say.

It does seem like most of the trauma exists solely in the fan community. Did you see the cast at the Cannes premiere? They seemed to be getting along fine. Wasn't it Ian McKellen who had dinner parties at his house every weekend when they were filming X2? Famke and James were both at opening night of Hugh's Broadway show.

People made a fuss about Halle clashing with Bryan Singer while shooting X2. From what I've read, Bryan is not the easiest guy to work with. He's a perfectionist, he yells, and can be pretty unpleasant. Ian McKellen mentioned in one of the X3 interviews that Brett wasn't nearly as neurotic.

But like always...it's got to be Halle's fault, right? I'm not trying to say the woman is a saint, but she does seem to be the punching bag for everything.