The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

[weatherwitch]

You sig is a cute rant as well

Isn't it though?

How've you been?

 

[weatherwitch]

So far all I've read is quips about how Storm wasn't developed, and not accurately portrayed, etc. Basically the same gripe Storm fans had, but with the blame placed where it belonged (on the director, on the writing, and yes on Halle, but it was spreadout not pinpoint focused like a red dot on her forehead). There's even a mention of how Halle could have expanded the balcony scene. Uhm, the scene was about her origins (read the book--and yes, it was in the screen play; it was mentioned that this scene was shot with mention of her as a Goddess on several occassions) so the fact that it's not in the film is somehow Halle's fault? It's called editing and I assure you the actors have nothing to do with the editing of a film. Most times they don't even see the picture until the premiere, so I fail to see the logic behind that arguement.

Here's the biggest misconception. Halle as a solo star. She herself said that it was an ensemble film, and guess what? She had less screen time in X3 than she did in X2. So what the heck is all the b*tching about? She felt her character was more developed with a real POV. And she was. Anyone on here wanna tell me Storm's view on the cure? Her view on what's more important: her current students or her former friend? Agree with those view points or not, they're evident.

Another misconception: More screen time. As I said she was in X3 no more than in X2 so that isn't the real issue. But how were X1 and ESPECIALLY X2 promoted? With Halle splashed everywhere. Her face was on everything. The commercials hinted at a Wolverine/Storm hook up (Remember the tent scene--the commercials never showed ANYONE but Storm on top of Logan). Her face is right beside Hugh's in the X and again she was mass marketed. She was used to bring in an audience. Now, when you are the face of the franchise (as Hugh and Halle clearly are--even BEFORE X3) one would hope that you would be satisfied with your character and director. She wasn't. I don't care who you are; if you become the fryboy at McDonald's and Ronald uses your image to line his big yellow pockets and you seriously dislike the way the fries taste that your image is selling to people I'd hope that you'd have enough balls to say "No. This is not what they want to eat. I'm not selling this oleo crap to anyone anymore." Halle got hit hard by fans after the first two films, even harder by fanboys. Yet she came back. And no one say her career needed this. Please her career was fine. She had critically acclaimed Oprah movie going on, producing another succesful movie. Offers on her plate (Perfect Stranger anyone?), Revlon and more money than any of us could hope to spend. She didn't need the X-Men. The X-Men needed her. And if she had the brains to figure this out and use it to get more of a role that she wanted, well, then more power to her. I defy anyone here to say they wouldn't do the exact same thing. ('Course you'd be lying, but hey go ahead and claim art for arts sake--especially when you don't like the art you're selling).

The simple, undisputable truth is that not everyone will like everything and that certain weakminded fanboys can't stand out. They must be part of a collective and the easiest collectives are the negative ones. I'm not discounting anyone's opinion. Like halle, don't, I don't care. But find something legitimate to not like as opposed to the paper thin arguements I've read so far. "She won an oscar and suddenly she didn't want to do comic book movies..." Uh, didn't Charlize Theron make some catty remarks about Halle for lowering herself to Catwoman, and then she herself took on that stinker Aeon Flux? Hmmm...Funny. Halle didn't want to return under Singer--or at the very least to a charcter she felt was underdeveloped. "She won an Oscar and was suddenly too good..." Uh, yeah. Most Oscar winners become pretty frikkin' selective after winning one of those--much less when you're the FIRST black actress to do so. C'mon, people, think realistically. I know it's hard to pull up from the keyboard/comic/RPG/Star Wars mug set out on the desk, but try. Just try.

 

[MaleRogue]

I have to agree with your assessments.

When you compare the two characters, Jean really has always been the frontwoman storywise in this franchise--especially in X2 and X3. In fact, the latter film revolved completely around her actions. In my estimation Jean played second fiddle to Storm in the marketing materials for this franchise only--not the films' plots.

Yet, despite the fact that Jean had such quality screentime and development no one cries bloody war that she's sucking screentime off of other characters. But when you sit down and think about it--she definitely was, just as much--if not more so--than Storm. Jean had two STORYLINES devoted to her. Ditto for Magneto. He too ate up time that could've been spent on Rogue, Bobby, etc. And yet, I'm not seeing the same complaining pattern. What's the difference??

And so I find this differentiation very intriguing.


Funny....As soon as Storm is finally doing more on the level of her peers, suddenly she's Public Enemy #2.

Somewhere you are right I think I don't hate Halle or Hugh.... I only would have loved that Rogue would get more time in the last movie... I think she deserved that..... but I think that some people are also a bit mad because Halle wanted more screen time or else she wouldn't be in the movie.

 

[Avalanche]

I can't speak for Halle, since I've always been a fan of her obtaining a larger role in the film.

There is however a little Hugh hate, not because of Hugh of course, but because of the massive exposure he gets as Wolverine. No, it's not the exposure in itself that annoys me, but the fact that I don't particularly like Wolverine as a character. Out of all the X-Men, he's the one who appeals to me least. Thus is frustrates me to see him eating up every one of the three X-Men films, particularly in light of X3, where he could have had a much smaller role given he has a chance to shine in his own movie.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Well done BMM--you are always good for articulating your points with conviction. However, while I can agree to disagree with much of your statements, I have to focus on this one:

There is no expectation for Storm to be on par with Magneto, nor should she be. Magneto represents the mutant foil for the entirety of Xavier's dream. He is the most prominent X-villain, representing everything the X-Men oppose, and he is not a member of an ensemble team. As such, he will obviously have more screen time than Storm, as his ideology is representative of a whole, distinct viewpoint in the human/mutant dynamic.

And that is precisely my point: If she's not "expected" to be on the same level as him (or Jean--whom you eloquently pointed out was designed to be the plots' frontwoman with the Phoenix saga), then why are people complaining? Apparently they do expect such things, or else they wouldn't be whining about her sucking up everyone else's screentime.

Looking back at the trilogy, Halle Berry had less to do than the biggest characters--both in terms of development and screentime (and no, I don't rank her power displays as being a sign of character development; those are plot devices, SFX, et al). As you say, her character was not essential to the plots involving the Phoenix. Okay...I can agree with that. So if that's the case, why is she a threat?

It's a double standard.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

So far all I've read is quips about how Storm wasn't developed, and not accurately portrayed, etc. Basically the same gripe Storm fans had, but with the blame placed where it belonged (on the director, on the writing, and yes on Halle, but it was spreadout not pinpoint focused like a red dot on her forehead). There's even a mention of how Halle could have expanded the balcony scene. Uhm, the scene was about her origins (read the book--and yes, it was in the screen play; it was mentioned that this scene was shot with mention of her as a Goddess on several occassions) so the fact that it's not in the film is somehow Halle's fault? It's called editing and I assure you the actors have nothing to do with the editing of a film. Most times they don't even see the picture until the premiere, so I fail to see the logic behind that arguement.

That's because there is no logic to be found.

People talk around here as if stars have this incredible ability to make the earth move. Sometimes they do. Often times they don't. BMM mentioned the balcony scene as an example of Halle's wasting valuable screentime to prove herself. What the hell? How so?

She didn't write the scene.

She didn't shoot it.

She didn't edit it.

So how is it a demonstration of Halle Berry blowing smoke for six years? Even with the new creative team (the writers in particular) I felt Storm took two steps backward: She got her face kicked constantly again (just like X1), and she still failed to really lead the team (because Logan was doing it). Yeah we saw new displays of power but...where was the growth? When you think about it, it was very marginal.

The greatest female character arc has continued to be with Jean Grey. So why there isn't room for Storm all of a sudden makes no sense to me.

Halle didn't want to return under Singer--or at the very least to a charcter she felt was underdeveloped. "She won an Oscar and was suddenly too good..." Uh, yeah. Most Oscar winners become pretty frikkin' selective after winning one of those--much less when you're the FIRST black actress to do so. C'mon, people, think realistically. I know it's hard to pull up from the keyboard/comic/RPG/Star Wars mug set out on the desk, but try. Just try.

If there is one thing that consistently amazes/annoys me about fanboys, it is their inability to understand the business sense that buoys these productions. If Halle Berry played the role of ARCLIGHT she would've been more prominent because of the $$$ involved.

It just so happens that Hugh and Halle play Wolverine and Storm--and to be frank--they are two of the most popular X-Men, as well as the most recognizable faces for Marvel. When you couple that with the fact that the characters are played by big-time actors, well, there you have it.

And peeps can hate me for what I'm about to say but...Hugh Jackman's Wolverine is one the BIGGEST reasons this entire franchise has succeeded. He MADE this franchise.

FOX has made the best decisions in marketing him the way they have--albeit the source material be damned in the process.

I just wish that some would own up to the fact that they are applying a double standard to these actors in some cases.

 

[Celestial]

I think some fans are angry because there expectations were not met. There's a feeling of disempowerment because the fillmmakers have not listened and given them what they asked for. The easiest reaction seems to be to compain and blame.

Some of us have been following the devlopment of X3 for a long time and have tried to understand the business issues. We've adjuste d our expectations along the way. So for me, it was always a surprise when other people clung to the idea that Hugh and Halle would not be the leads in X3.

Since X2, at every stage, it has been made clear that without Hugh there would be no X3. "We'd never make an X-Man movie without Wolverine." He was the first cast member to be re-signed and there was even considerations of making the Wolverine spinoff first. Fox have a big investment in Hugh. They took an unknown and turned him into an international star through the X-Men franchise. They're doing their best to make him the biggest star in the world. So of course they were going to keep him up front and central.

I don't really understand the situation with Halle. I think it was clear that they'd go ahead with X3 even if she didn't sign but that they were pretty keen to get her. She could add value in terms of marketing, kudos (Oscar) and race. Her demands sounded reasonable for an actress of her standing, so once she'd signed, everyone knew what to expect.

I guess the compaints are aimed at Hugh and Halle because it's clear that their positions in X3 were determined by business expediency rather than adherance to the comics.

I hadn't thought about the lack of complaints about Ian McKellen. Maybe it's because people think they'd look silly criticising an actor of his calibre.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I hadn't thought about the lack of complaints about Ian McKellen. Maybe it's because people think they'd look silly criticising an actor of his calibre.

So would you catergorize that as a double-standard?

 

[Goddessreicho]

I remember I got really angry when the Halle hate leaked into nearly every f n thread here. It was riduculas. I find it ironic that now alot of people who are posting in here a backpeadling. *looks down at signature again and falls in love with it all over again* Talk about a double standard.

WW is right, as usual. I know I have been saying this over and over. Even when you go into other threads and read the recurring theme about Halle. Her image and name was used to market the franchise, so watching her have the small inconsequensal role was a slap in the face to Halle, her fans, and Storm fans. She got upset about that (as anyone would in her shoes, you know you would have too) and she was able to finally do something about that. She also wasn't the only one who had a major beef with Singer, that's why Alan Cummings never came back. Yes the 8 hrs of make up sucked, but he had a problem with Singer being an anal annoying prick.

I think that people who want an X4 with out alot of H and H are kidding themselves. The marketers, writers (bastards), and Fox hit the jackpot with the this particular formula. So why would they suddenly change it up if its the most successful.

WW also mentioned Halle's new movie Perfect Strangers, also getting alot of attention. Let me just say this now, alot of the Halle haters, and people sick of the attention she gets, better suck it up cause when Things We Lost in the Fire comes out ya'll are gonna be bit***'. Its a well known fact that Halle's acting strength is in drama and angst, so the oscar buzz that's floating around this sure to piss off many.

I totally agree with LS. The double standard that issued with Halle is a pain in the a**. Case in point "the accent". Sure place all the balme on her, and not the director who could have reshot the scenes w/o the accent, who apprently had trouble with another oscar winner's accent who at the time actually had a oscar, but that's really never brought up over and over and over in every other thread now, is it?

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Halle sucks... she can't act and she is a diva when it comes to demanding more money. Her Storm was terrible. She looks fat on screen. She should have had blue eyes... she was probably too good to wear them. Stupid Halle*


*TOB is a payed actor by Lightning Strikez! to generate more controversy in his thread. The above comments are not those of TOB's


Ca-ching! Show me the money

(Really, give me the money damn it)

 

[LoGaN's RuNNer]

Lightning Strikez!, you took the words right out of my mouth. I thank you. Like I've said before this whole complaining about characters screentime, while a decent argument, gets old...fast.

 

[Celestial]

There does seem to be a double standard in terms of personal criticism. There is very little directed as Hugh and Ian whereas there are a lot of unneccessary personal attacks on Halle.

 

[Mike059jig]

edit

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

There does seem to be a double standard in terms of personal criticism. There is very little directed as Hugh and Ian whereas there are a lot of unneccessary personal attacks on Halle.

There's not really a double standard, though.

Halle HAS done things to bring certain complaints upon herself that nobody else in the cast has done.

And again, I'm not talking about demanding more screentime. I'm not talking about the inaccuracy in Storm's character (that's the writer's faults, not Halle's). Hell, even though she was miscast as the character, I'm not even talking about her portrayal of Storm.

What I'm talking about is the "I'm too good for comic book movies", yet turning around and doing Catwoman. When I found out about that, I was really turned off on her.

And I also feel a, well I dunno what the word is, maybe annoyance, that Halle complained about Storm's role in X-Men and X2, but is totally happy about X-Men: The Last Stand, where the only difference is she flew...

I'd much rather see some deep characterization than her flying. Storm's character wasn't improved in the least bit in the last movie. She just got to fly, and Halle thinks that everything is okay.

Those are the reasons why I'm not a Halle Berry fan. I don't hate her, there's really nothing worth hating. I just don't particularly like Halle Berry (and I say that in the least extreme way possible), because she has done things during her time as Storm, and times in between, that I particularly don't find favorable.

Nobody else in these movies have done anything like that (at least not that I know of)

Everything I heard from everyone else was anticipation for this last movie. Hugh is a through and through kick ass dude. Someone I'd want to meet and go have a beer with.

Famke, I remember, was willing to clear up her schedule for X-Men: The Last Stand because X-Men was her priority.

Patrick and Ian were looking forward to continuing the movies, and these characters, because they truly enjoyed them. They just wanted a good script to come along first.

I agree that the hatred for Halle has gone WAY overboard. She hasn't done anything that bad. But there is some reality to where those feelings spawned from. Unfortunatley, it has spiraled out of control. But I feel there are some legitamate reasons to at least have a complaint against Halle.

 

[god/devil]

I totally agree with L.S on everything he said. And it's about time someone said it because without halle and hugh we might not of even got an x-2

 

[Goddessreicho]

Why do people always fall back on the argument that X2 was better than X3, then they bring up that it made more money with a smaller budjet. X2 wasn't all that great, alot of critics who don't read comic books found it to be a bore and very pretensious. Lastsunrise brought up X3's box office defeat by The Breakup.

Well lets all rewind back to 2003. X2 was kicked around by Bend it Like Beckham and annailated by PotC, which people couldn't stop talking about. X2 was pretty much forgotten. X1 wasn't a well liked film at first either. Just a small response for BMM, Halle was asked over to come back for X2, she didn't want to and was convinced by producers because THEY wanted her. They were also willing to write her a more "fleshed out part" because she was RIGHT. Storm was a tool with no storyline.

Back on topic, Halle and Hugh draw in more attention than they cast out. Fox saw that and cashed in on it. What is this, thier fouth film together, and it's the second one where both are headliners and it was one of the biggest films of the year. People don't like the attention.

 

[Obsidian]

Why do people always fall back on the argument that X2 was better than X3, then they bring up that it made more money with a smaller budjet. X2 wasn't all that great, alot of critics who don't read comic books found it to be a bore and very pretensious. Lastsunrise brought up X3's box office defeat by The Breakup.

Well lets all rewind back to 2003. X2 was kicked around by Bend it Like Beckham and annailated by PotC, which people couldn't stop talking about. X2 was pretty much forgotten. X1 wasn't a well liked film at first either. Just a small response for BMM, Halle was asked over to come back for X2, she didn't want to and was convinced by producers because THEY wanted her. They were also willing to write her a more "fleshed out part" because she was RIGHT. Storm was a tool with no storyline.

Yet, the overall outlook on the film from a critical perspective was overly positive, garnering a respective 87% on the Rottentomatoes scale.

And X2 wasn't "kicked around" by Bend it Like Beckham or annihilated by PotC. Bend it like Bekham came out in March of that year and PotC came out in July. It did go up against "Matrix Reloaded" and "Finding Nemo", and faired pretty well considering the competition.

 

[Goddessreicho]

The only reason why X2 is rembered is because comic book fans won't let it go. The biggest critical films of '03 were Finding Nemo, Bend it, and Pirates. X2 was lost in the dust of thier greatness.

Please don't use RT to support your argument. That the same as saying there are alot of open minds on AICN.

 

[JP]

Meh, I didn't have time to read any of this thread. I just read Lightnings post, and thought I'd speak my mind.

I don't think I have a hate toward Halle and Hugh (despite my feelings toward Halle), just the way they were handled in X3. None of their portrayals was ANYTHING like what I read in the comics. Everything that made him Logan in the first two films was stripped away, and I was left with this 'sensitive, caring leader' for the entire movie.

It's common knowledge that Logan was yet again going to be the center focus in his film, but at least let him keep his balls.

As for Halle. . . oh dear God in heaven. I can't even begin. We were promised a Storm that was going to be closer to her comic self. A Storm that would be completely re-written to please 'us fans'. I didn't see that.

Ask yourself, what was her role in X3? There was none. What did we learn about Storm in X3 that Bryan Singer didn't tell us in X1 and 2? Nothing. Did she have any character development? No! Yet she was still in almost every frame of the movie. Half the time her dialog was pointless. She was saying things that did not need to be said. Not to mention her multiple close ups every time her eye color changed. Why? It was just so pointless.

So, as a few people have said I don't blame Halle and Hugh. I blame Fox. They ruined Logan as a character, and what was once Halle Berry’s awfulness in X1&2 (IMHO) became the awfulness of a bad studio.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Meh, I didn't have time to read any of this thread. I just read Lightnings post, and thought I'd speak my mind.

I don't think I have a hate toward Halle and Hugh (despite my feelings toward Halle), just the way they were handled in X3. None of their portrayals was ANYTHING like what I read in the comics. Everything that made him Logan in the first two films was stripped away, and I was left with this 'sensitive, caring leader' for the entire movie.

It's common knowledge that Logan was yet again going to be the center focus in his film, but at least let him keep his balls.

As for Halle. . . oh dear God in heaven. I can't even begin. We were promised a Storm that was going to be closer to her comic self. A Storm that would be completely re-written to please 'us fans'. I didn't see that.

Ask yourself, what was her role in X3? There was none. What did we learn about Storm in X3 that Bryan Singer didn't tell us in X1 and 2? Nothing. Did she have any character development? No! Yet she was still in almost every frame of the movie. Half the time her dialog was pointless. She was saying things that did not need to be said. Not to mention her multiple close ups every time her eye color changed. Why? It was just so pointless.

So, as a few people have said I don't blame Halle and Hugh. I blame Fox. They ruined Logan as a character, and what was once Halle Berry’s awfulness in X1&2 (IMHO) became the awfulness of a bad studio.

There's JP... over there... be quiet or you'll scare him away... right there! *points*

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Ask yourself, what was her role in X3? There was none. What did we learn about Storm in X3 that Bryan Singer didn't tell us in X1 and 2? Nothing. Did she have any character development? No! Yet she was still in almost every frame of the movie. Half the time her dialog was pointless. She was saying things that did not need to be said. Not to mention her multiple close ups every time her eye color changed. Why? It was just so pointless.

Welcome back JP. And amen--I wholeheartedly agree with you.

When compared to the development the other main characters received, Halle is still behind. Screentime doesn't mean anything if it's not quality and well spent, and she really didn't get much to sink her teeth into. Perhaps the little bit of character development she received was much cut (like the scene we know she had with Kitty, and the extended conversation she had with Charles on the balcony).

So my question remains--why is she such a threat to X4? It's not like other characters' development is being hindered because the writers are investing oh so much into hers....

 

[Mike059jig]

The only reason why X2 is rembered is because comic book fans won't let it go. The biggest critical films of '03 were Finding Nemo, Bend it, and Pirates. X2 was lost in the dust of thier greatness.
Please don't use RT to support your argument. That the same as saying there are alot of open minds on AICN.

Please don't use RT to support agurments tell me agian....why I shouldn't use a site that has a variety of reviews from many different sources again so I don't have to find them???I guess we disregard RT cause X3 got...uumm nevermind..and last time I check SHH uses that site to check first on reviews before movies come out...yeah but the Best comic book movie of 2003 was X2 and its was one of the critical movies in 2003 along with those other movies...when the Comic book fans remember a movie like X2 it tells you something......UUmmm Batman Begins, Spider-Man anyone

 

[Celestial]

I don't think she is a threat to X4. I could easily see her being used as the big name to lead up a bunch of lesser known actors. During the X3 promos, we had the double act of Hugh saying no more and Halle saying she's love to.

The X3 script failed to deliver for Storm or Wolverine whereas Magneto was a gem of a part, performed brilliantly.

 

[javon]

The problem is that Halle and Hugh have been put front and center for the movie.

OMG! Why does everyone keep saying that?! Halle wasn't front of anything. Yes she took the sschool in...so what?! Hugh was front and center period. (Not towards your post now) I formone AM NOT Jealous that Halle didn't get enough screentime. I expected more from her and Cyclops for one part. Again, hugh snatched that up.

 

[JP]

Hey TOB! And hello LS! Nice to see the two of you.

So my question remains--why is she such a threat to X4? It's not like other characters' development is being hindered because the writers are investing oh so much into hers....

Being that I haven't been around this place in ages I couldn't speak for the majority in answering that question.

I'd assume that maybe some feel that with Jean, Cyclops, and maybe Xavier, Mystique and Magneto not appearing in future films, all that's left is Halle and Hugh.

All though, if the studio can find a way to somehow get Singer back, I truly believe that he can find a way to deliver an X4 that deals with the Phoenix saga (again) without compromising anything that happened in X3.