The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

[Goddessreicho]

As far as I'm concerned, the X-movies never even happened. They're just bad, BAD fan fiction written by a bunch of mindless Wolverine fanboys.

I think the series would have improved if Singer had stayed, but to be honest, unless you're a drooling Wolverine fanboy, none of the movies are worth a damn. That also includes Storm fans. She never got to be the Storm we know and love from the comics. It didn't help that the cast the wrong actress. I don't hate Halle, but she did not make a good Storm. Storm is elegant and exotic and Halle is as All-American as they come. Hell, except for race, Halle would've made a better Jean than she did Storm.

Not that Halle isn't INCREDIBLY good to look at.

What happened during the eulogy seen? Was that a rock concert in disguse. Was the death of Xavier a hidden pizza party? These were scenes where Halle was FINALLY able to pull of the grace and elegance that are Ororo's signature.

Wait that's wrong, there was also a brief glances of it with Kurt in X2. I find it ironic how the two people who were rumored to have the most diffuculty with BS (LOL) had some of the most chilling scenes together.

In X1 we also saw that Ororo didn't take no sh** from Wolverine. When she told him to basically stop bs'n around and make up his mind. I find how Wolverine just walked into her leardership role in the danger room and took it over to be a complete 180 of the little bit that was established with her character.

As for that accent. Well it was made apparent that Singer had alot of trouble with alot of things when he was helming the X-men. Dialects were one of them. Peter, Marie, and Ororo had light switch or no accents. Blame Halle (and her non-exsist at the time oscar) all you want for it, but just keep in mind that Paquin had hers then and still couldn't keep it up. Singer just should have cut all attemps at accents off if he couldn't keep it on screen. As a director is was his call and he missed it.

Halle is notorious for performing ver very well, or completly missing the mark. Personally, I think she needs new representation. Her agent BLOWS. She should have never accepted the pitiful role in X1. I don't blame Singer either for the disater. I used to, but after hearing what he thinks about the character, I find that my anger is most at ALL THE WRITERS, who peed all over everybody and the studio who let the stream flow as well.

 

[CapBeerCino]

Now I know your kidding...

A lot of ppl agree about Brandon-

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241139

 

[Chris Wallace]

HalleHughHate
What's REALLY Going On Here?

By Lightning Strikez!​

I can keep silent no longer.

I've been quietly perusing this board during the last few weeks, and I've noticed an influx of threads complaining about how certain marquee players in this franchise need to "go away". In particular, two of the reasons this franchise has been successful--namely Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry--seem to be the target of most of these "anti" sentiments.

Now, maybe I saw a different X1 and X2 than some of you, but it seems that Berry (Storm) is only just now becoming a real player in this franchise. Despite the way she was marketed before, she played a supporting character in the prior films. She was billed 5th and 4th in them respectively, and unlike others, never received an origin story, nor a role in any of the romantic plots. Even in X3, she did not carry Scott's torch in his absence...she played second-in-command to Logan. So as critics have agreed, not much changed in her role from X1, to X2 to X3.

Yet, according to some of you, suddenly Halle's become this huge "problem" that threatens to eat up all the other X-Men's body parts!?? How did this happen? It can't be *only* about her salary because she always made more than the other actors--despite her comparatively minor role. And it can't be about screentime because--let's face it--she wasn't really more visible in X3 than X2 sans more action sequences (and much of her stuff was chopped--as usual).

So when putting it all in perspective, what is really accounting for all the hate? To see my point more clearly, let's consider two of the other top actors who--for some reason--are not receiving similiar backlash, shall we?

***​

* Famke Janssen's character certainly has had a substantial role (especially as part of the romantic twists in all three films) and moved up on the casting credits (to Halle's former position)--yet I don't hear people stating that she's eating up everyone else's screentime--even though she's gotten the most character development of the X-Women.

*Magneto's (Ian's) role in each film was consistently huge. In fact, prior to X3, he received top billing over TWO Oscar-winning actresses, and had more screentime than both of them yet again in X3. Yet, no one is complaining about him eating up everyone's screentime. No one is saying "Do we really need Ian?" Hmmmm....

So what is the REAL problem here? Why the disconnect?

Could it be that people are bent out of shape because their personal favorite characters are not being treated the way they preferred?Are some of us simply angry and venting accordingly, even though the character dynamics have never really changed in 6 years (with Logan still front and center with everyone else supporting him)?

I sense jealousy...and maybe even hypocrisy in some of these posts....but I could be wrong. Would someone care to explain it to me?

I think it's that more than anyting else.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Too bad not enough people outside of comic book forums do, cause that's where the profit is going to come from.

If it comes...

 

[ntcrawler]

What happened during the eulogy seen? Was that a rock concert in disguse. Was the death of Xavier a hidden pizza party? These were scenes where Halle was FINALLY able to pull of the grace and elegance that are Ororo's signature.

Yes, but like all other good scenes, it was way too short. Speech over, let's hug a few people, and BAM. next scene.

Wait that's wrong, there was also a brief glances of it with Kurt in X2. I find it ironic how the two people who were rumored to have the most diffuculty with BS (LOL) had some of the most chilling scenes together.

I agree about that scene. One of my favs. So what happened to it? The stuff discussed in that scene was never explored. In fact, the meaning of this scene and the areas explored completely disappeared along with Kurt. Where is the anger? Where is the fear? Where is the faith?

In X1 we also saw that Ororo didn't take no sh** from Wolverine. When she told him to basically stop bs'n around and make up his mind.

Yeah, which is surprising how in X3 she backs down when he talks down to her. Ororo's leadership is replaced instead by almost jealousy. ie "you're going ater her because you love her?". She may be headmistress, but she hasn't really grown or developed.

I find how Wolverine just walked into her leardership role in the danger room and took it over to be a complete 180 of the little bit that was established with her character.

Exactly. She's made a leader, but she's not good at asserting herself. One of the things we'll need to fix

I find that my anger is most at ALL THE WRITERS, who peed all over everybody and the studio who let the stream flow as well.

A combo of bad writers, and greedy studio execs telling the bad writers what to write.

 

[X-Maniac]

Yes, but like all other good scenes, it was way too short. Speech over, let's hug a few people, and BAM. next scene.

It didn't feel that way to me... but each to their own

I agree about that scene. One of my favs. So what happened to it? The stuff discussed in that scene was never explored. In fact, the meaning of this scene and the areas explored completely disappeared along with Kurt. Where is the anger? Where is the fear? Where is the faith?

The faith came in at the end of the movie, when she had blind faith in Nightcrawler to teleport them safely into Dark Cerebro... 'I have faith in you'....

By X3, the fear had gone ('Magneto's on the run, we have a mutant in the cabinet, a president who understands us. Why are we still hiding?') because the world felt safer. And the anger was very much in evidence during her dialogue about the cure and during her power displays (very unlike the power displays in X2, when she was very calm).

Yeah, which is surprising how in X3 she backs down when he talks down to her. Ororo's leadership is replaced instead by almost jealousy. ie "you're going ater her because you love her?". She may be headmistress, but she hasn't really grown or developed. Exactly. She's made a leader, but she's not good at asserting herself. One of the things we'll need to fix A combo of bad writers, and greedy studio execs telling the bad writers what to write.

She is becoming a leader; you can see by her surprised reaction to Xavier's comment about taking over the school that leadership is fairly new to her at this point, something she never really envisaged before...and Wolverine is a challenge to anyone, let alone her! He is the maverick, the alpha male, who comes and goes as he chooses. However, I agree he did assume the leadership role a little too much by the end of the movie (I suspect that was a studio requirement, one of the arguments the writers lost).

 

[javon]

Im not jealous of the Storm character im not Jeaolous of Halle. I just dislike her potrayal of what is supposed to be a strong female presence. And you know her characte suffered that loss due to the over exposure of another character.

As for the "stupid excuse" it's been basically said to me countless times, Should i assume i've been in one sided arguments?

wOW, i LIKE UR OPINION,LOL.

 

[gambitfire]

wait some of you where actually impressed with the eulogy scene? how was it impressive she delivered it like it was a eulogy that's it. There was no Storm in it. Just Halle acting as a person giving a eulogy. Atleast to me it felt that way.

As for Wolverine taking her spot yea that was the writers fault but her yelling in a whiney fashion was irritating. She didn't sound angry strong and firm she just sounded whiney. IMO anyways.

 

[javon]

wait some of you where actually impressed with the eulogy scene? how was it impressive she delivered it like it was a eulogy that's it. There was no Storm in it. Just Halle acting as a person giving a eulogy. Atleast to me it felt that way.

What eulogy?

erine taking her spot yea that was the writers fault but her yelling in a whiney fashion was irritating. She didn't sound angry strong and firm she just sounded whiney. IMO anyways.

Yes. We did not get the firm strong Storm like in the comics. Although I didn't really find her all that whiney except 4 in the DR. Is that what your reffering to?

 

[Goddessreicho]

She is becoming a leader; you can see by her surprised reaction to Xavier's comment about taking over the school that leadership is fairly new to her at this point, something she never really envisaged before...and Wolverine is a challenge to anyone, let alone her! He is the maverick, the alpha male, who comes and goes as he chooses. However, I agree he did assume the leadership role a little too much by the end of the movie (I suspect that was a studio requirement, one of the arguments the writers lost).

I beg to differ with this statement. I think it was vice verca most of the time. Wolverine only challeged her for the leadership position twice. (Danger and Final Battle, that's it) Storm challenged Wolverine at every corner. In X1, as I said before, she was the one who told him to stop wasting his time. In X3 she still challeged him. The "are you ready line" and when he he left on the sucide mission for Jean.

 

[javon]

^LOL!. You have a very good point.

 

[danoyse]

I beg to differ with this statement. I think it was vice verca most of the time. Wolverine only challeged her for the leadership position twice. (Danger and Final Battle, that's it) Storm challenged Wolverine at every corner. In X1, as I said before, she was the one who told him to stop wasting his time. In X3 she still challeged him. The "are you ready line" and when he he left on the sucide mission for Jean.

Well, the Danger Room scene he just didn't care, which is why Storm was so angry with him. It was frustrating enough that they couldn't get Scott out of his depression to help her, it was worse that Logan was behaving worse than any of the kids were.

He tried to walk out even after she confronted him in X1, and he did the same by leaving after Jean in X3. It wasn't that she didn't have the power to stop him, it was that he was being too thick-skulled to admit she was right.

I don't even think she was really being trumped when he gave the kids the speech before they left for Alcatraz. Here was the guy who slacked off during their sessions and never took anything seriously. She'd probably told them time and time again how important their roles would be. Having Wolverine grow up and enforce that would only drive that lesson home more.

 

[XCharlieX]

I beg to differ with this statement. I think it was vice verca most of the time. Wolverine only challeged her for the leadership position twice. (Danger and Final Battle, that's it)

Im beginning to see the truth in LS's posts. There IS jealousy amongst the fans if they think Wolverine trumped storm at the end. Their team was falling apart and you think wolverine was thinking about showing the leader up? Hardly..that shows they find wolverine to be a complete ass with no heart. They were scattered and almost broken at the end, knowing what awaited them with the brotherhood out there... wolverine realized the importance of teamwork at that point.

 

[gambitfire]

^ Oh brother,

yes it's jealousy it was always jealousy all along if this makes everyone feel better i was jealous of the characters and actors of this movie.

i need a long break from this thread.

 

[danoyse]

Im beginning to see the truth in LS's posts. There IS jealousy amongst the fans if they think Wolverine trumped storm at the end. Their team was falling apart and you think wolverine was thinking about showing the leader up? Hardly..that shows they find wolverine to be a complete ass with no heart. They were scattered and almost broken at the end, knowing what awaited them with the brotherhood out there... wolverine realized the importance of teamwork at that point.

And Storm knew that all along...it was getting Wolverine to realize he couldn't run off and take care of these things alone. That he couldn't goof off when they were trying to teach the kids in the danger room, because what they stood for was important.

That's why I don't think she was getting trumped in that scene. The kids would know how serious things were coming from her because she'd been telling them that all along--and because she was the one running the school now. Having the slacker step up and tell them only enforced it even more.

I think the "jealousy" LS is referring to is the idea that Halle's infamous "bigger role" in X3 somehow took time away from the other characters: that the bigger role bumped off Cyclops, that it kept Gambit from finally having a role in the movies, etc.

Which I don't think it did. Her role was more significant, not bigger, and certainly not dominating over the movie. People are just mad about the fates of their particular favorite character, and are just taking it out on Halle and Hugh--although Halle appears to be taking the bulk of it. Probably because people are happier with the way Hugh plays Wolverine then the way Halle played Storm.

If they didn't like Hugh as Wolverine, he'd probably getting as much misdirected hate as Halle does.

 

[XCharlieX]

I think the "jealousy" LS is referring to is the idea that Halle's infamous "bigger role" in X3 somehow took time away from the other characters: that the bigger role bumped off Cyclops, that it kept Gambit from finally having a role in the movies, etc.

Yeah i know but the point he was making is if someone gets the forefront they mustve snubbed another as if theyre jockeying for position. Theres lots of this in many of the accusations people make ive noticed. If scotts not around, then Halle mustve did something, if wolverines forefront they mustve snubbed Scott because he "sucks", if there was a scene that made sense with wolverine making a speech, he mustve pushed storm out of the way and knocked her to the floor to speak... its nonsense.

One would be thinking about teamwork real quick too if the hundreds of brotherhood was about to go up against them

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

all this reminds me of Luke rushing off to save Han and Leia...but only they (minus han) had save to him. "It is you and your abilities the emperor wants. that is why your friends are made to suffer." ...

Luke was reckless...and he rushed off unprepared...

whereas Logan was reckless and just rushed off ...

 

[Mike059jig]

Before I am most likely flamed by Halle Berry/Storm fans, let me preface this by saying that I don’t dislike Halle Berry or her portrayal of Storm. I have nothing against her or Jackman. I am simply attempting to answer Lightning Strikez!.



I disagree. Storywise, I don't find Storm plays second fiddle to Jean in X-Men or X2, especially X-Men. Jean is very much the underwhelming, background member of the team, as she should be in her early depictions. Janssen is given a couple of nice, small character moments with Wolverine in X-Men and little else. Conversely, Berry is also given a couple of nice character moments; one with Logan no less, but unlike Janssen, Berry is given devoted power pieces, which showcase her abilities as an X-Man as well as being an effective team member. She disposes of Toad and Sabretooth in a couple of the first film’s most memorable moments.

X2 very much captures aspects of Storm’s leadership abilities as well as her motherly instincts. She is above par when compared to the majority of the other characters in the film, and it is only until Jean’s sacrifice, that Jean pulls ahead in terms of plot moments in X2. Yes, Jean sacrifices herself in order to save the X-Men, but we all know this to simply be a plot device in order to present the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix storyline. Jean may have saved the X-Men but Storm saves the X-Men and the world. If there was no Storm, there would be no X-Men to save.



Perhaps because Janssen, who has equal or less memorable moments in X-Men and essentially equal moments in X2, never threatened to leave if she wasn’t given more to do. This has been an issue since the first film and continues to be through The Last Stand. All of these characters maintain a deep, rich history in the Marvel Universe, and it has been acknowledged many times that this is an ensemble movie . . . everyone seems to acknowledge this . . . so why of all people, is Halle Berry, who is clearly not in the minority in terms of character presence or development, complaining? They were contemplating offering Berry her own Storm movie no less.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=1824
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=2688
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-05/07/13.00.film
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=1340
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=594
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=575

(This back and forth nonsense seems to have caused more tension over any other cast character throughout the course of the trilogy).



Jean is simply written that way in the source material. Unfortunately, Storm is not. With the exception of her tryst with Forge, Storm has never had a deep, prolonged love interest until very recently. Instead, like in the comic books, Storm is given character moments elsewhere. In this case, she has nice character moments with Jean, Nightcrawler, and the children. In regards to the Dark Phoenix Saga, remember, you’re comparing Halle Berry’s Storm to the first X-woman who happens to maintain the most popular character arc in the history of X-Men (not to mention one of the most popular arcs in the history of comic books). We all knew this storyline was coming. This character arc overshadows all of the X-Men and not just Berry’s Storm. If this is what Berry is being compared to, then I don’t think she has such a raw deal.

There is no expectation for Storm to be on par with Magneto, nor should she be. Magneto represents the mutant foil for the entirety of Xavier's dream. He is the most prominent X-villain, representing everything the X-Men oppose, and he is not a member of an ensemble team. As such, he will obviously have more screen time than Storm, as his ideology is representative of a whole, distinct viewpoint in the human/mutant dynamic.



Comments like these I don’t understand. What do you mean when Storm is finally more on the level of her peers? When was she ever not on the level of Cyclops or Jean in X-Men (or Mystique, Sabretooth, Senator Kelly, Toad)?

When is she not on her peers’ level in X2? Particularly Cyclops, not to mention Colossus, Iceman, Jubilee, Lady Deathstryke, Mystique, Professor Xavier, Pyro, Rogue, etc. Storm is essentially on par with Jean Grey and Nightcrawler. The only characters she isn’t on par with are Magneto, Wolverine, and Stryker. In The Last Stand, she has just as much, if not more to do than Angel, Arclight, Cyclops, Colossus, Dr. Kavita Rao, Juggernaut, Kitty Pryde, Iceman, Leech, Mystique, Psylocke, Pyro, Quills, Rogue, Warren Worthington Sr., etc.

Where on the totem pole does Storm have to be in order to be considered on equal footing with her peers all of which have just as lengthy of histories as she does?

This is what gets me though. Previous experience would lead us to believe Berry’s inability to incorporate more of Storm’s character likenesses are due to the decisions of the previous creative team. Yet, with all of her supposed knowledge and yearning to do so, when given the opportunity under a new creative team, it appears Berry does absolutely nothing to capitalize on her chances to do what she has been talking about doing for the past six years.

There is a prime opportunity with Xavier on the balcony in which to showcase a discussion regarding Storm’s origins and her reasoning for becoming an X-man and, after six years of complaining about not being able to do so, absolutely nothing is done with it. Kitty Pryde, a character with whom Storm shares a nice relationship, is now given the time to interact with Storm, again potentially showcasing a number of Storm’s personality traits (especially given the circumstances that befall the X-Men in The Last Stand) and nothing memorable is done to capitalize on the opportunity. Jean and Storm, former friends and teammates, never interact with each other once in the movie—more characterization lost. Xavier asks Storm to head the school if anything should happen to him, and what does she do? She immediately begins discussing closing the school. Of all people, I believe Iceman is the voice of reason. Storm, who understands enough about Xavier’s dream to incorporate it into his eulogy, which she delivers, has been personally asked by Xavier to continue his dream, and she isn’t even the voice of reason when deciding whether or not to keep the school open. Thank God for Warren.

Six years of complaints, questions of recasting, a studio visibly on her side, a director and experience she now very much seems to like, and absolutely nothing new is brought to the table. Instead we have more fog, lightning, she is beat up in a fist fight again, and mimics the same speech she gave to Wolverine in a movie made over 6 years ago. What was all the drama for? The writers are apparently quoted as saying the studio mandated The Last Stand be a Hugh/Halle production and the producers have been boasting about beefing up her role and further developing her character—so what happened?

I don’t dislike Halle Berry, and I certainly don’t hate her as Storm either. Yet she has clearly been the most vocal regarding her character, and her character already had a fair share of screen time in comparison to others. After all of the nail biting and reports regarding studio parameters and other characters in addition to producer promises, for whatever reason, Berry now seems satisfied . . . but in reality, it looks to have changed nothing with the exception of annoying people along the way. This is why I think Berry has become an easy target over the past 6 years.

.....Nobody hates Halle she just sturs up Controversy...

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

wait some of you where actually impressed with the eulogy scene?

I definitely wasn't.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

but to be honest, unless you're a drooling Wolverine fanboy, none of the movies are worth a damn.

I'm not a drooling Wolverine fanboy. My favorite character never made it to the big screen. Wolverine isn't even a top 5 character of mine.

All 3 movies were everything I've been waiting for from X-Men movies. They were definatley "worth a damn" and more.

Stop being bitter.

 

[ntcrawler]

I definitely wasn't.

Just a thought, but a man of Xavier's position with his connections, you'd think that for his funeral they could invite a few more guests. Like a few hundred. He's gotta have friends in every branch of government and civil societies not to mention a few world leaders. They could have at least dressed up the whole production staff in black suits and tossed them into the picture to make it look a little richer.

And of course a word or two of mentioning Cyke's apparent death and ackwoledge that he's gone too would be nice. Unless of course he's not really dead...

 

[Majik1387]

Ok I read the first post like 5 times but I can't find the 3rd H.

And something for everyone to consider:

-Not everyone who did not like Halle/Hugh as Storm/Wolverine blame her for X-3.
-Not everyone who did like Halle/Hugh as Storm/Wolverine credit only them for X-3.

* Famke Janssen's character certainly has had a substantial role (especially as part of the romantic twists in all three films) and moved up on the casting credits (to Halle's former position)--yet I don't hear people stating that she's eating up everyone else's screentime--even though she's gotten the most character development of the X-Women.
*Magneto's (Ian's) role in each film was consistently huge. In fact, prior to X3, he received top billing over TWO Oscar-winning actresses, and had more screentime than both of them yet again in X3. Yet, no one is complaining about him eating up everyone's screentime. No one is saying "Do we really need Ian?" Hmmmm....

Jean Grey had as much screentime as Rogue and Storm in X-1 and a bit more than both of them in X-2.
X-3 was supposed to be her story so she wasn't eating up screentime in any way; yet she got pushed in the background.

If you've seen McKellan's acting credits before the X-Men movies, you'll see why he deserved top-billing over the two oscar winning actresses. He also had more screentime because he has always been the main villain. In X-2 he shared that villain light with Stryker; He's never eaten up too much screentime.

 

[X-Maniac]

I definitely wasn't.

You weren't? I have to say I loved it, it really did bring a tear to my eye. I loved Halle's acting in that scene.

It was true to the story, true to the movie....

If we're talking about whether it was true to comicbook Storm, that's another debate entirely, a debate that started about six years ago...

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I don't see what was wrong with the eulogy.

I felt the eulogy and the Kitty Pryde / Iceman ice skate was a better sequence in the movie, because it was one of the rare instances where the movie actually slowed down a bit and let things settle in and breathe.

 

[Ororocity]

Halle is just not exotic enough. She's apple-pie. It's not her fault, I don't blame her for wanting the part, and I don't blame her for fighting to get her character more to do. She was just the wrong choice in the first place.

I quite agree but I love Halle. But she is an ACTRESS , she can act exoctic if the script told her to but if we had got an origin scene then Storm can show the exoctic(ness).