Homecoming The Amazing Spider-Man 3 General Discussion - Part 9

[HarryOsborn]

But Spider-Man did not ruin Venom's life. He never feels he is to blame for what happened to Eddie Brock in comic books, so there is no baggage for him to carry. There is no guilt. I have never read any story where Peter feels to blame for what happened to Eddie. Not seen it in cartoons either. Or movie.

Remember how 90's TAS wrote Mysterio as a special fx man who made a dangerous special effect and Spider-Man caught him and captured him, and he went to prison. Then when he was released he became Mysterio and framed Spider-Man as a criminal.

That is better revenge story and motive than Venom's. Venom is bad character with no good reason to be Spider-Man's enemy. Peter did not hurt Brock's life.

This is why we should let the professionals write the scripts and why Avi's pandering made ASM 2 suck. Fan's (myself included) just make up stories that are a series of events and don't have deeper meanings. They sound exciting on the outside but they lack deeper substance. This what was wrong with Iron Man 2, Thor: TDW, etc.

You're looking at everything very superficially. It's not about the actual stories but it's about what the characters mean. What they represent. It's no mistake that Eddie Brock looks like a twisted version of Spider-Man, is someone who blames Spider-Man for his woes, and wears a suit rejected by Spider-Man. It's not about making a revenge story, it's about having a character who's story is integrally tied to Peter's growth as a character.

Mysterio is my favorite comic book villain, but the truth is he's just a throw away villain with a grudge.

 

[HarryOsborn]

In 2012 they were thinking "Look at the success of Nolan's Batman movies. Lets make Spider-Man more gritty like them".

In 2014 they were thinking "Oh no wait look at the success of The Avengers. Lets lighten Spider-Man up and cram in loads of characters to make an expansive universe".

Now they're thinking....."We're in the crap".

You forgot the brief period of time in 2010 when twilight was considered a good model!

 

[Spider2099]

Wasn't TASM1 originally supposed to be a smaller, low-budget "indie" superhero film that focused on the teen angst of a teenage Peter Parker and his girlfriend? Those elements still stuck with the final product, but they eventually scrapped that idea and just went with making a big budget superhero movie. I remember their reason for rebooting was that they wanted to keep Peter Parker in high school... and then they make him graduate at the beginning of the sequel.

 

[Doc Ock]

In 2012 they were thinking "Look at the success of Nolan's Batman movies. Lets make Spider-Man more gritty like them".

In 2014 they were thinking "Oh no wait look at the success of The Avengers. Lets lighten Spider-Man up and cram in loads of characters to make an expansive universe".

Now they're thinking....."We're in the crap".

That's essentially what I think about Sony's Spider-Man post-Raimi. They are trying to keep up with the times by copying what's popular at the time!

 

[HarryOsborn]

Wasn't TASM1 originally supposed to be a smaller, low-budget "indie" superhero film that focused on the teen angst of a teenage Peter Parker and his girlfriend? Those elements still stuck with the final product, but they eventually scrapped that idea and just went with making a big budget superhero movie. I remember their reason for rebooting was that they wanted to keep Peter Parker in high school... and then they make him graduate at the beginning of the sequel.

Spot on. Lol Sony has had no clue what to do for years. Avi thought he had it all figured out in January, and honestly had he not been the man who killed my dream of being a director, a part of me wouldn't feel bad it all blew up in his face.

 

[harryoscop]

Wait, there are two Doc Ocks on the Hype?

 

[Ultron-5]

They can have a movie with 3 villains if they find a way to make it work. For example:

Kraven- Hired to catch Spidey, fails to catch him and decides to kill him instead.
Chameleon- Frames Spider-Man for murder in order to make him a public menace
Kingpin- Hires Chameleon to frame Spidey

See, with a good script it could work.

 

[Spider2099]

They can have a movie with 3 villains if they find a way to make it work. For example:

Kraven- Hired to catch Spidey, fails to catch him and decides to kill him instead.
Chameleon- Frames Spider-Man for murder in order to make him a public menace
Kingpin- Hires Chameleon to frame Spidey

See, with a good script it could work.

Didn't the Dark Knight have multiple villains? It can work if done right. Sony just doesn't know how to handle it.

Spot on. Lol Sony has had no clue what to do for years. Avi thought he had it all figured out in January, and honestly had he not been the man who killed my dream of being a director, a part of me wouldn't feel bad it all blew up in his face.

Avi just wants to make a series of Venom movies, doesn't he? That guy really doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I think they should go with the hired route with Scorpion rather than Kraven. I like having those 3 villains start of a movie though. Maybe have Kingpin show up at the end of the movie and he hires Chameleon to work for him.

 

[Ultron-5]

Didn't the Dark Knight have multiple villains? It can work if done right. Sony just doesn't know how to handle it.

Marvel Studios could handle it.

 

[Nemeres]

I actually grew up believing that was the Joker's origin.

I had it dispelled after Batman Forever. I was like Whoa, I was lied to.

 

[Nemeres]

Didn't the Dark Knight have multiple villains? It can work if done right. Sony just doesn't know how to handle it.

It's more of a writers' thing than a studio thing.

 

[Spider2099]

It's more of a writers' thing than a studio thing.

True, but the studio doesn't seem to go after the right writers nor do they let the filmmakers do their own thing.

 

[Stormz96]

True, but the studio doesn't seem to go after the right writers nor do they let the filmmakers do their own thing.

Pretty much sums it up, sadly

 

[A Necessary Evil]

You can have multiple villains in a film, and execute it perfectly. How, you ask? Tie all of their stories together, and badaboom badabing there ya go.

 

[Spider2099]

You can have multiple villains in a film, and execute it perfectly. How, you ask? Tie all of their stories together, and badaboom badabing there ya go.

It's also important to make sure there is one clear main villain. The Dark Knight is the perfect example of how to do multiple villains right: The Joker is front-and-center while the movie builds up to Harvey Dent turning into Two-Face towards the end. Scarecrow makes a brief appearance at the beginning of the movie and some of the other villains/gangsters have minor yet significant roles in the plot.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It's also important to make sure there is one clear main villain. The Dark Knight is the perfect example of how to do multiple villains right: The Joker is front-and-center while the movie builds up to Harvey Dent turning into Two-Face towards the end. Scarecrow makes a brief appearance at the beginning of the movie and some of the other villains/gangsters have minor yet significant roles in the plot.

Right. TWS is another example. Pierce is the main villain. But you also have Winter Soldier, Crossbones, Dr. Zola, Agent Sitwell, and Batroc the Leaper. Plus Strucker as the Man Behind the Man.

 

[Stormz96]

Btw, just read the cbm article on the casting call, wow they did their research, they looked up the building for the agency and it's empty. And they're breaking the law by soliciting money from casting. So that should be official confirmation: the casting call was fraudulent

 

[The Joker]

Right. TWS is another example. Pierce is the main villain. But you also have Winter Soldier, Crossbones, Dr. Zola, Agent Sitwell, and Batroc the Leaper. Plus Strucker as the Man Behind the Man.

I'd also throw in X-Men 2. Stryker, Magneto, Mystique, Lady Deathstrike.

 

[Stormz96]

I'd like to see doc ock have a small rogues team, maybe a precursor to the sinister six. maybe sandman and rhino or lizard and electro.

 

[Tymminator]

About SM3 personally I don't hate that he had those dance numbers (the one where he's just walking down the street pointing dancing was hilarious to me, but I understand why it may pull people out of it), but I HATED how they made Sandman the killer of Uncle Ben, it simply was unnecessary and downright stupid.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'd also throw in X-Men 2. Stryker, Magneto, Mystique, Lady Deathstrike.

Guardians of the Galaxy has Thanos, Ronan, Nebula, The Collector, and arguably Yondu (he certainly plays the role of an antagonist for much of the film).

The key is the number of plots. If you have several villains involved in one main storyline, such as GotG's 'Infinity Stone Quest' plot, it can easily work. If you start having multiple distinct plots with separate villains, such as TASM2 with the Electro Plot and the Green Goblin Plot, it can get messy in a hurry.

 

[Spider2099]

Right. TWS is another example. Pierce is the main villain. But you also have Winter Soldier, Crossbones, Dr. Zola, Agent Sitwell, and Batroc the Leaper. Plus Strucker as the Man Behind the Man.

And to think Sony didn't want the Russo Brothers to produce a Spider-Man film for them.

Btw, just read the cbm article on the casting call, wow they did their research, they looked up the building for the agency and it's empty. And they're breaking the law by soliciting money from casting. So that should be official confirmation: the casting call was fraudulent

I'd also throw in X-Men 2. Stryker, Magneto, Mystique, Lady Deathstrike.

Not to mention that the X-Men movies have to balance between all of the mutants that appear in the movie, both heroes and villains.

 

[Havok83]

Guardians of the Galaxy has Thanos, Ronan, Nebula, The Collector, and arguably Yondu (he certainly plays the role of an antagonist for much of the film).

The key is the number of plots. If you have several villains involved in one main storyline, such as GotG's 'Infinity Stone Quest' plot, it can easily work. If you start having multiple distinct plots with separate villains, such as TASM2 with the Electro Plot and the Green Goblin Plot, it can get messy in a hurry.

Or Spider-Man 3 with Sandman, Goblin and Venom. It was too much and they werent connected

 

[Stormz96]

Not to mention that the X-Men movies have to balance between all of the mutants that appear in the movie, both heroes and villains.

That's because they don't waste time developing a subplot about the untold story of wolverine's parents