Homecoming The Amazing Spider-Man 3 General Discussion - Part 9

[The Joker]

Guardians of the Galaxy has Thanos, Ronan, Nebula, The Collector, and arguably Yondu (he certainly plays the role of an antagonist for much of the film).

The key is the number of plots. If you have several villains involved in one main storyline, such as GotG's 'Infinity Stone Quest' plot, it can easily work. If you start having multiple distinct plots with separate villains, such as TASM2 with the Electro Plot and the Green Goblin Plot, it can get messy in a hurry.

Exactly. You have to tie it all together and make it feel organic. Magneto, Stryker, Deathstrike, and Mystique were all organically connected from the get-go as we saw Deathstrike was Stryker's hench, and Stryker was using Magneto to get info about the X-Men base and Cerebro, and Mystique was sussing out Stryker and his plans in disguise as Senator Kelly while working to bust Magneto out of prison. They were all connected by Stryker's plan.

In TDK Harvey Dent is working with Batman and Gordon to bring down the mob and the Joker, Dent is a target of Joker's whom he's using as his ace in the hole for his chaos agenda. Dent becomes Two Face as a result of Joker's twisted little game. They were all connected Joker's plans.

These kinds of character weaved plots are spun throughout the whole movie. Not half way through or near the end ala Electro being busted out of jail last minute by Dane Harry to team up and get Spidey, or Sandman and Venom random alleyway team up. There was no build up or proper character interaction between these characters. It felt very out of the blue set up for a big action climax and all characters involved suffered for it.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Or Spider-Man 3 with Sandman, Goblin and Venom. It was too much and they werent connected

Right. This is where using Vulture instead of Venom would have helped, since he was involved in the Sandman plot from the beginning instead of his own separate one only to be haphazardly jammed together in the last act.

 

[Stormz96]

If they ever use venom, he should basically be a weapon/henchmen for a bigger, better villain. Goblin can manipulate Eddie Brock and they don't need to give him a huge subplot. It would work better than him headlining a spidey film, I think.

 

[Spider2099]

That's because they don't waste time developing a subplot about the untold story of wolverine's parents

Well I was really interested in learning about Cyclops' third cousin twice removed, but I guess they need to devote screentime to more important things.

 

[Tymminator]

You forgot the brief period of time in 2010 when twilight was considered a good model!

Which is probably why they had Parker get bit in the neck instead of the hand.

 

[Spider2099]

Which is probably why they had Parker get bit in the neck instead of the hand.

Oh my god, I never thought of that... O_O

 

[Havok83]

If they ever use venom, he should basically be a weapon/henchmen for a bigger, better villain. Goblin can manipulate Eddie Brock and they don't need to give him a huge subplot. It would work better than him headlining a spidey film, I think.

No, Venom needs to be the headliner of a Spidey film as I dont think making him simply be a henchman would do him justice. The problem with him in SM3 was the pacing. That filmed served as a good intro to Eddie but Venom shouldnt have shown up til a sequel (which of course didnt happen). He just seemed rush and there was no time to develop him or do much with he and Spidey

 

[Stormz96]

No, Venom needs to be the headliner of a Spidey film as I dont think making him simply be a henchman would do him justice. The problem with him in SM3 was the pacing. That filmed served as a good intro to Eddie but Venom shouldnt have shown up til a sequel (which of course didnt happen). He just seemed rush and there was no time to develop him or do much with he and Spidey

Well I was thinking they can set him up as a "muscle" type henchmen, and then he could spinoff from there, maybe headline the next film or one down the road.

 

[HarryOsborn]

Marvel Studios could handle it.

Let's do a role count:

Thor:
1. Loki
2. Frost Giants
3. The Destroyer

Cap:FA
1. Red Skull
2. Arnim Zola

Thor:TDW
1. Loki
2. Kurse
3. Malaketh(sp?)

Cap:TWS
1. Batroc
2. The Winter Soldier
3. Arnim Zola
4. Crossbones
5. Director Pierce

GoTG
1. Ronin
2. Yondu
3. The Other
4. Nebula
5. Thanos

Marvel has made as many as five villains work by not doing an origin story for each of them and assuming the audience to capable of following along without them.

Also...

Batman Begins:
1.Ras' Al Ghul (sp?)
2.Scarecrow
3.That fat mob boss locked up in arkham (forgot his name)

The Dark Knight:
1.Scarecrow
2.Joker
3.Two-Face

The Dark Knight Rises:
1. Bane
2. Catwoman
3. Talia
w/scarecrow and Rs' appearing

X2:
1. Magneto/Mystique
2. Striker

X-Men DoFP:

1. Sentinels/Trask
2. Magneto
3. Mystique

 

[zeptron]

I saw it as a sequel to the animated series, it even used the same voice actor from Unlimited.

Also in the first game, Doc Ock and Black Cat were voiced by their VA in TAS.

Yeah Vulture and Sandman. I don't know if the original script had New Goblin in it, but I know they were going to wrap up Harry's storyline. Ben Kingsley was considered for Vulture in SM3. The original script had Vulture as Sandman's former cellmate who manipulates him into committing crimes.

I'm always saying that this could have actually ended up being better than what we got because Sandman and Vulture would have actually been connected right from the start and would have shared scenes together. That would have been two story arcs going on instead of three completely unrelated ones. Plus Vulture's less complicated than Venom and would have started out as a pure evil villain as he would had been a criminal that had been previously busted by Spider-man(which may or may not have been shown) and wanted revenge. Thus no descent into evil would had been needed for him.

Some people are quick to dismiss this idea because of how they personally feel about Vulture. Vulture admittedly isn't one of my favorite villains, but I really think that they're underestimating the potential he could have had. Especially if a great actor like Ben Kingsley had portrayed him. He will never be lame and Vulture could look dynamic on screen if done properly.

 

[HarryOsborn]

No, Venom needs to be the headliner of a Spidey film as I dont think making him simply be a henchman would do him justice. The problem with him in SM3 was the pacing. That filmed served as a good intro to Eddie but Venom shouldnt have shown up til a sequel (which of course didnt happen). He just seemed rush and there was no time to develop him or do much with he and Spidey

Venom is not the headliner. The thing with Venom is that when he has the suit he's relentless and he's a force that has to be dealt with until he's stopped. He would be best served to be a threat to Peter's personal life as a side plot, like Two-Face in TDK. He's not the main villain, but he is final battle and his character arc is the one that ties the film together.

 

[Stormz96]

Venom is not the headliner. The thing with Venom is that when he has the suit he's relentless and he's a force that has to be dealt with until he's stopped. He would be best served to be a threat to Peter's personal life as a side plot, like Two-Face in TDK. He's not the main villain, but he is final battle and his character arc is the one that ties the film together.

That's what I'm thinking

 

[HarryOsborn]

I'm always saying that this could have actually ended up being better than what we got because Sandman and Vulture would have actually been connected right from the start and would have shared scenes together. That would have been two story arcs going on instead of three completely unrelated ones. Plus Vulture's less complicated than Venom and would have started out as a pure evil villain as he would had been a criminal that had been previously busted by Spider-man(which may or may not have been shown) and wanted revenge. Thus no descent into evil would had been needed for him.

Vulture doesn't require nearly as much set up, his transformation in the final battle wouldn't feel forced as he would be an established villain, and no one would have complained about the Vulture getting the shaft. Also a guy named the Vulture being the big bad manipulator is pretty perfect. Apparently Garfield cried when he read the first script of TASM2, so I believe there was a stronger story there at one time as well. Like i said earlier, Avi thinks like a fanboy and a businessman, not like an artist.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I'd like to see doc ock have a small rogues team, maybe a precursor to the sinister six. maybe sandman and rhino or lizard and electro.

Or have Kingpin set up a Superior-Foes type squad. Out for money, not for revenge. Save the S for much later down the pipeline.

 

[HarryOsborn]

That's what I'm thinking

Something like Venom revealing Peter's identity and Kingpin putting out a hit on Peter Parker/Kraven stalking him/ or even the sinister six forming to kill him. Spider-Man has to face a number of adversaries in and out of costume (while trying to maintain the ruse that he is not Spider-Man). He has to protect his loved ones and has many emotional moments with Aunt May/Mary Jane/JJ Jameson/etc. Ultimately Venom believes whatever damage the main antagonists have done will make Peter weak enough to break, but instead it is the emotional journey these struggles have given him, that gives him the strength to defeat Eddie.

 

[HarryOsborn]

Or have Kingpin set up a Superior-Foes type squad. Out for money, not for revenge. Save the S for much later down the pipeline.

It's not really that hard, do an italian job style intro for each villain and don't use any overly outlandish ones that require too much suspension of disbelief.

The Vulture- crazed scientist equipped with a flight harness and not much hair.
The Shocker- inventive thug who's vibroshock gauntlets make him all but unstoppable
Doctor Octopus- your standard mad scientist with six arms infused to his body.
Kraven the Hunter- renowned big game hunter who's found humans to be superior prey.
Mysterio- disgruntled stunt-man/magician keen on showmanship in his crimes.
The Rhino- Russian thug imposing on his own, becomes a behemoth in his jungle themed mech.

 

[Stormz96]

Something like Venom revealing Peter's identity and Kingpin putting out a hit on Peter Parker/Kraven stalking him/ or even the sinister six forming to kill him. Spider-Man has to face a number of adversaries in and out of costume (while trying to maintain the ruse that he is not Spider-Man). He has to protect his loved ones and has many emotional moments with Aunt May/Mary Jane/JJ Jameson/etc. Ultimately Venom believes whatever damage the main antagonists have done will make Peter weak enough to break, but instead it is the emotional journey these struggles have given him, that gives him the strength to defeat Eddie.

I really like this! As long as his secret identity is safe by the end of the film. And for some reason that strikes me as a third act film, mainly because those tend to hit closest to home

 

[Ultron-5]

I'd love to see a PROPER Spidey vs the Sinister 6 movie. Do you guys like the original lineup, or are there changes you would make?

 

[Stormz96]

I'd love to see a PROPER Spidey vs the Sinister 6 movie. Do you guys like the original lineup, or are there changes you would make?

I prefer classic, with Doc Ock as the leader. No goblin, just because he shouldn't survive his solo film.

 

[HarryOsborn]

I really like this! As long as his secret identity is safe by the end of the film. And for some reason that strikes me as a third act film, mainly because those tend to hit closest to home

Yeah no public identity at anytime

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'd love to see a PROPER Spidey vs the Sinister 6 movie. Do you guys like the original lineup, or are there changes you would make?

Ock needs to be the leader. And no Goblin because he would overshadow him.

The rest of the team could be a number of the B and C-List Spidey villains. I personally think a team of Mysterio, Sandman, Rhino, Vulture, and Electro would mesh well together.

 

[CaptainWagner]

It's not really that hard, do an italian job style intro for each villain and don't use any overly outlandish ones that require too much suspension of disbelief.

The Vulture- crazed scientist equipped with a flight harness and not much hair.
The Shocker- inventive thug who's vibroshock gauntlets make him all but unstoppable
Doctor Octopus- your standard mad scientist with six arms infused to his body.
Kraven the Hunter- renowned big game hunter who's found humans to be superior prey.
Mysterio- disgruntled stunt-man/magician keen on showmanship in his crimes.
The Rhino- Russian thug imposing on his own, becomes a behemoth in his jungle themed mech.

Outside of Shocker, though, those all deserve to be in the S6, and really need a hisory with Spider-man. A mob hitsquad would be more the likes of Shocker, Beetle, folks like that.

 

[HarryOsborn]

Outside of Shocker, though, those all deserve to be in the S6, and really need a hisory with Spider-man. A mob hitsquad would be more the likes of Shocker, Beetle, folks like that.

My point was they could be introduced that way for either. Just throw in they all have a vendetta against spider-man, have doc ock set the team up instead of kingpin and boom.

 

[Ultron-5]

The classic lineup is still the best. Introduce 2 members in each movie so the fourth one is Spider-Man vs. The Sinister Six.

Movie #1- Kraven and Mysterio
Movie #2- Vulture and Sandman
Movie #3 Doc Ock and Electro

 

[Ultron-5]

However, If they go with a new lineup it should be this:
Doc Ock
Vulture
Mysterio
Sandman
Kraven
Chameleon
Rhino