The Atheism Thread - Part 5

[Optimus_Prime_]

Funnily enough, given our argument about empathy, the religious viewpoint is that animals were put here for our own convenience and we should simply do with them as we please, because **** pigs.

Ironic. The one excluded from that, as far as consumption, was pigs.

Of course that is not all religions, nor does that fit every interpretation of Christianity.

Some are, some aren't, just like atheists.

I've never seen statistics, but I'd be interested to find out who has more vegetarians.

 

[Doctor Evo]

How so?

Such a contract seems meaningless in terms of our current discussion. Why would a contract with yourself be able to inform your actions towards other people? That seems entirely arbitrary, especially given the sentence that followed.

What do you not understand about that. Seems fairly straightforward.

It just seemed rather unnecessary. I was wondering if your point extended beyond stating the obvious.

My first post didn't implicate you at all and yet you responded to it?

I thought we were talking about the other post?

Okay?

I'm saying that your belief isn't justified in every case. "What do you not understand about that."

 

[Doctor Evo]

Ironic. The one excluded from that, as far as consumption, was pigs.

Wasn't talking exclusively about consumption. Why do you insist upon focusing on the most irrelevant details of my posts? I mean, I guess I can appreciate the irony and the humor there, but it seems entirely beside the point.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Such a contract seems meaningless in terms of our current discussion. Why would a contract with yourself be able to inform your actions towards other people?

If the contract with yourself was to be kind to other people, then that would certainly inform your actions towards others. Although you are the ultimate judge of your own actions, no one else.

It just seemed rather unnecessary. I was wondering if your point extended beyond stating the obvious.

No, I was merely stating the obvious.

I thought we were talking about the other post?

Nope, the first one.

I'm saying that your belief isn't justified in every case. "What do you not understand about that."

I never said it was. Very few things are without exceptions.

I actually don't think humans have changed much at all, just changed clothes on occasion.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Wasn't talking exclusively about consumption. Why do you insist upon focusing on the most irrelevant details of my posts? I mean, I guess I can appreciate the irony and the humor there, but it seems entirely beside the point.

It wasn't an attack on your post.

 

[Doctor Evo]

It wasn't an attack on your post.

"Attack," isn't the word I would use. But I did think you were maybe trying to make a counter-point. If not, I misinterpreted.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

"Attack," isn't the word I would use. But I did think you were maybe trying to make a counter-point. If not, I misinterpreted.

Nope, that's why I said ironically, rather than "haha dumba**, pigs weren't included". I understood it as dry humor.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Try taking in the opposing view Evo

 

[Doctor Evo]

If the contract with yourself was to be kind to other people, then that would certainly inform your actions towards others. Although you are the ultimate judge of your own actions, no one else.

This, again, seems arbitrary.

I actually don't think humans have changed much at all, just changed clothes on occasion.

That's deep, man.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

This, again, seems arbitrary.

Not at all. A person always gets the final say on himself/herself. Your last thought will be yours and yours alone.

That's deep, man.

Lol, no asking me to expand on that? I'm crushed.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Try taking in the opposing view Evo

I like to argue. That's usually the only reason I come here. Let me have my fun.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Lol, no asking me to expand on that? I'm crushed.

You should expand on this.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

You should expand on this.

I might as well, since I wanted to anyways.

Just that, on a person to person level, people will mostly remain the same no matter what ideological framework exists around them. I think you can divert certain human behaviors, or police them, but never eradicate them

JMC and I briefly discussed this in this thread. Basically the notion that Jesus could've been a Joseph Smith, and that maybe in 2,000 years our future generations will be having to put up with questions about his divinity. Or even Xenu. Or that even certain Atheists will start taking on religious traits, so in effect, you'll end up with the same moral dilemmas and just have different words for them.

There is certainly precedent for this. Atheism isn't a new idea, after all, and a lot of people assumed in the past that atheism would take over religion and yet here we are and it still hasn't.

Also, despite technology upgrading the quality of life, which is great, in the scheme of things I'm sure the end won't be the same as if we never had science at all.

 

[redhawk23]

I might as well, since I wanted to anyways.

Just that, on a person to person level, people will mostly remain the same no matter what ideological framework exists around them. I think you can divert certain human behaviors, or police them, but never eradicate them

JMC and I briefly discussed this in this thread. Basically the notion that Jesus could've been a Joseph Smith, and that maybe in 2,000 years our future generations will be having to put up with questions about his divinity. Or even Xenu. Or that even certain Atheists will start taking on religious traits, so in effect, you'll end up with the same moral dilemmas and just have different words for them.

There is certainly precedent for this. Atheism isn't a new idea, after all, and a lot of people assumed in the past that atheism would take over religion and yet here we are and it still hasn't.

Also, despite technology upgrading the quality of life, which is great, in the scheme of things I'm sure the end won't be the same as if we never had science at all.

The most populous country in the world is largely atheistic just keep that in mind, not to mention far greater secularization in other parts of the industrialized world outside of the United States. Religion serves important social functions but it is not the only way in which those needs can be served and there is little reason to assume it will continue to be the dominant fashion in which those needs are served as societies become increasingly interconnected.

But is it really surprising that a few centuries of secularization hasn't yet overtaken the influence of the vast majority of human history or of long standing institutions that wield a massive amount of social and economic capital?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

The most populous country in the world is largely atheistic just keep that in mind, not to mention far greater secularization in other parts of the industrialized world outside of the United States. Religion serves important social functions but it is not the only way in which those needs can be served and there is little reason to assume it will continue to be the dominant fashion in which those needs are served as societies become increasingly interconnected.

But is it really surprising that a few centuries of secularization hasn't yet overtaken the influence of the vast majority of human history or of long standing institutions that wield a massive amount of social and economic capital?

Yet they are far from the first.

Also this is hardly the first time religious people were aware of other religions and/or atheism.

The real question is does religion really have anything to do with the existence of God, and I'm not sure it does.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Also, despite technology upgrading the quality of life, which is great, in the scheme of things I'm sure the end won't be the same as if we never had science at all.

...did you mean the end WILL be the same as if we never had science at all?

Also, are you conflating science with atheism?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

...did you mean the end WILL be the same as if we never had science at all?

Also, are you conflating science with atheism?

Yes, that is what I meant.

Yeah, the end is going to be the same. Probably exactly.

I don't see us getting off this planet before it gets us. I even wonder if intelligence and technology will eventually become self-destructive.

 

[KalMart]

Well, if anything will allow us to avoid sharing in the Earth's end, we can be certain it will have to be found through science.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Well, if anything will allow us to avoid sharing in the Earth's end, we can be certain it will have to be found through science.

It's not at all likely though.

 

[KalMart]

It's not at all likely though.

Not by our means or envelope of knowledge today...but neither was much of what we can do today 100 years ago.

But as discussed in another thread specifically about this...it could possibly entail some radical biological changes on our part to become beings that can survive for many nomadic generations in space...specifically without the same kind of gravity. To me, it'd have to be a big plan put in place and started at least centuries in advance as we build towards successive stages of off-world living. I think what bothers a lot of folks is the image/concept of humans becoming very different looking creatures, but it's something we very well may have to do rather than hoping for some magical teleportation or hyperspace or finding a planet just like Earth. Heck, we may look rather like octopi, but if it comes down to either that or accepting extinction, it could be yet another stage of evolution that we ourselves would induce and expedite.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I like to argue. That's usually the only reason I come here. Let me have my fun.

"You can't argue until you take into other's views."

 

[Doctor Evo]

"You can't argue until you take into other's views."

1) Is English your first language? And who the hell are you even quoting?

I'm just going to assume that I understood what you meant and move on to the next bullet point...

2) The fact that I disagree with the opposing view doesn't mean I don't understand it. I think you'd do well to learn the difference.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Ironic. The one excluded from that, as far as consumption, was pigs.

Of course that is not all religions, nor does that fit every interpretation of Christianity.

Some are, some aren't, just like atheists.

I've never seen statistics, but I'd be interested to find out who has more vegetarians.

I missed this earlier. I'm assuming there was a ninja-edit.

Totally valid point. I think the Hindus probably have the most vegetarians, and a brief google search seems to support that idea.

 

[Hawkingbird]

1) Is English your first language? And who the hell are you even quoting?

I'm just going to assume that I understood what you meant and move on to the next bullet point...

2) The fact that I disagree with the opposing view doesn't mean I don't understand it. I think you'd do well to learn the difference.

I was quoting what most debaters would say and yes it is, in fact I'm an A* student in English so please do not patronize me. I didn't say understand, I said "take into account."
It's a shame, I would love to go on these boards more often, but Evo seems to talk down to anyone that opposes his view.

 

[Doctor Evo]

I was quoting what most debaters would say and yes it is, in fact I'm an A* student in English so please do not patronize me. I didn't say understand, I said "take into account."

Actually, you didn't. And I was taking his argument into account. I just happened to disagree.

It's a shame, I would love to go on these boards more often, but Evo seems to talk down to anyone that opposes his view.

There's an ignore function. I invite you to use it. Whether you do is of no consequence to me.

Go to User CP and click on Edit Ignore List. Go ahead and type in "Doctor Evo" (my username should pop up just below). One more button-click and you're done.

From then on out my posts will be hidden from your view. It seems rather silly that you'd let a complete stranger hamper your enjoyment of an internet message board, but this is a potential solution to your problem. Enjoy!