The Atheism Thread - Part 5

[Senator Pleasury]

"I blame god for our loss tonight, he didn't give us the strength we needed. He really ****** this one up for us."

 

[Piper Maru]

TTA Podcast 132: Ghost Stories 2013
[YT]8Nhmj-w4Lcg[/YT]
It's the Halloween season, and it's time for another fun, frivolous evening of ghost stories and spooky tales about things that go bump in the night.

 

[DarkSentinel]

I just feel compelled to post in here, not to troll though I know I'll get slammed, but I personally, and honestly, can't comprehend atheism. I guess it's because there's so much creativity, both naturally occurring and manmade, that I don't see how that can just come out of nothing.

But if you're a good person and has done me no wrong (in real life, of course, the Hype is fair game ) then I have no reason to mistreat you no matter what your beliefs are.

 

[Marvolo]

I just feel compelled to post in here, not to troll though I know I'll get slammed, but I personally, and honestly, can't comprehend atheism. I guess it's because there's so much creativity, both naturally occurring and manmade, that I don't see how that can just come out of nothing.

But if you're a good person and has done me no wrong (in real life, of course, the Hype is fair game ) then I have no reason to mistreat you no matter what your beliefs are.

Who said it came from nothing? Our creativity comes from our brains which are the result of billions of years of natural evolution on this planet. And natural evolution on this planet and the universe itself is a result of billions of years of cosmological evolution. Hardly nothing. Its not like our creativity just popped into existence out of thin air unlike what religion says...that its a result of a magical deity giving it to us.

Not flaming you just saying the notion that athiesm says things come from nothing is a large fallacy. Athiesm simply adheres to science instead of...magic.

 

[DarkSentinel]

Marv, I like you buddy so I'd never want to start an argument with you. But what you just said furthers the point I'm trying to make. The very design of our brains (yes, I said design, meaning form and function in tandem) is so minutely complex. To me, that can't be simply "billions of years of evolution", to paraphrase your words.

That being said, you used an interesting term. "Cosmological evolution". Biology is one thing, but what is consciousness? Literal awareness of self and surrounding? Energy? It can't be simple intelligence. It has to be a finite independence of thought and process, and yet it's simultaneously aware of and perceptive to other consciousnesses around it. Who's to say there isn't a "Primal Conscience" that existed before yours and drives cosmological evolution?

Like I said, not trying to start an argument t: That's the last I'll say on the matter.

 

[Marvolo]

Marv, I like you buddy so I'd never want to start an argument with you. But what you just said furthers the point I'm trying to make. The very design of our brains (yes, I said design, meaning form and function in tandem) is so minutely complex. To me, that can't be simply "billions of years of evolution", to paraphrase your words.

That being said, you used an interesting term. "Cosmological evolution". Biology is one thing, but what is consciousness? Literal awareness of self and surrounding? Energy? It can't be simple intelligence. It has to be a finite independence of thought and process, and yet it's simultaneously aware of and perceptive to other consciousnesses around it. Who's to say there isn't a "Primal Conscience" that existed before yours and drives cosmological evolution?

Like I said, not trying to start an argument t: That's the last I'll say on the matter.

Haha we're good. And I can see youre asking the good questions that have fascinated mankind for thousands of years. Personally I'm not opposed to a conscience universe or something existing outside or within our plane of existence that set off evolution or played some role in our development. Its an interesting thing to ponder. I'm just not of the persuasion that a christian like micro managing magical deity is the answer to these questions. I thought that might be what you were getting at when you said you thought our creativity came from something. Thats my bad for jumping to that conclusion.

I do still think billions of years of trial and error with the environment and trillions of species is adequate to result in our brains and consciousness but I can see why people don't sit well with that idea.

 

[redhawk23]

Marv, I like you buddy so I'd never want to start an argument with you. But what you just said furthers the point I'm trying to make. The very design of our brains (yes, I said design, meaning form and function in tandem) is so minutely complex. To me, that can't be simply "billions of years of evolution", to paraphrase your words.

I think you underestimate how long a span of time "a billion years" represents. Particularly since for some organisms, a generation can be as little as few minutes and even within larger organisms the imperfect process of gene replication and biological reproduction are constantly taking place.

And what about less complex brains? Or organisms without brains at all. Is it more believable for you that they are the result of evolutionary processes? If so, why would we alone represent some kind of organism outside of that?

 

[DarkSentinel]

Well no doubt I was raised Christian, and that's what I believe. But it's (in my philosophical perception) hardly micro. It's inconceivably macro, the idea that the vast consciousness of the universe could've manifested itself in the flesh of man (not human flesh, there's a difference ) so that we could have a shot at understanding it better on a spiritual level.


However, we're also beings of intelligence, so our thirst for knowledge usually veers beyond the spiritual

 

[DarkSentinel]

I think you underestimate how long a span of time "a billion years" represents. Particularly since for some organisms, a generation can be as little as few minutes and even within larger organisms the imperfect process of gene replication and biological reproduction are constantly taking place.

Oh I totally underestimate how long a billion years actually is

I can only speak for my own self, my own perception, and my own self-perception t:

 

[regwec]

But if you're a good person and has done me no wrong (in real life, of course, the Hype is fair game ) then I have no reason to mistreat you no matter what your beliefs are.

It tends to be the theists who do the mistreating.

That being said, you used an interesting term. "Cosmological evolution". Biology is one thing, but what is consciousness? Literal awareness of self and surrounding? Energy? It can't be simple intelligence.

Yeah, it can.

 

[Doctor Evo]

I just feel compelled to post in here, not to troll though I know I'll get slammed, but I personally, and honestly, can't comprehend atheism. I guess it's because there's so much creativity, both naturally occurring and manmade, that I don't see how that can just come out of nothing.

But if you're a good person and has done me no wrong (in real life, of course, the Hype is fair game ) then I have no reason to mistreat you no matter what your beliefs are.

Mistake number one and mistake number two.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Well no doubt I was raised Christian, and that's what I believe. But it's (in my philosophical perception) hardly micro. It's inconceivably macro, the idea that the vast consciousness of the universe

Can you explain what you mean by this?

...could've manifested itself in the flesh of man (not human flesh, there's a difference ) so that we could have a shot at understanding it better on a spiritual level.

You seem to be operating under the presumption that not only was this the goal, but, more importantly, that there was a goal in the first place.

 

[Breogan]

...I personally, and honestly, can't comprehend atheism.

Sure you can, you're atheist towards Odin, Zeus, Ra, Quetzalcoatl, Vishnu, Allah, the Orishas, Ahura Mazda, Baal, Xenu, etc...

They just apply the same skepticism and incredulity you apply to those gods, to one more.
The basic incredulity you apply to those is the same though, you comprehend.

 

[Anubis]

That has got to be the best explanation of Atheism i've ever seen.

 

[Piper Maru]

Richard Feynman on God
[YT]YltEym9H0x4[/YT]
Richard Feynman compares Science to Mystic Answers.

 

[NateHevens]

DarkSentinel... you seem to be operating under the mistaken impression that our brains actually work perfectly.

Please allow me to attempt to disabuse you of that notion...

 

[Breogan]

DarkSentinel... you seem to be operating under the mistaken impression that our brains actually work perfectly.
Please allow me to attempt to disabuse you of that notion...

Why would that only apply to him?

 

[regwec]

That sentence isn't.

 

[SpideyVille]

You know, I was thinking about this earlier, since I had an argument with my mom last night after she said God was going to punish me for "not being nice" not my niece and nephew, and I told her he wasn't going to because he doesn't exist. But basically, in my experience, I've always seen church goers bring new people in and say that they need to have an open mind. But I realized, especially after the many years I spent in my church, that the same needs to apply to those who already go to church.

I mean, at this point in my life, I don't know what to believe so I don't try to take sides or anything. But I've finally started to see the whole hypocrisy that people show with religion, where they expect you to have an open mind and believe what they believe in, but they immediately expect you to close your mind once you hear "the truth". I think that was definitely the trap I fell into and is why I pushed away a lot of people who didn't believe in the "the truth" that I was told. But it really upsets me how religion is supposed to set us free, but all it really ends up doing is trapping us in a way that makes us hate ourselves after a while.

 

[regwec]

That's a profound post, and I hope you won't mind if I cite it in future.

 

[SpideyVille]

That's a profound post, and I hope you won't mind if I cite it in future.

Sure, no problem.

I don't know how this thread is compared to the other ones based on religion, but I hope what I said doesn't sound like I was bashing anybody. It's not my intention to offend anyone because like I said, I don't believe that there's anyone out there who can give a clear right from wrong answer.

 

[Piper Maru]

You weren't bashing anybody, SpideyVille. You composed yourself in a decent manner, and that's all anyone asks.

 

[NateHevens]

Why would that only apply to him?

Um... huh? I'm not sure what you mean?

I linked him to an article explaining how the brain is indeed not perfect, and actually makes a holy hell of a lot of mistakes... enough to make one question one's own memory... on a daily basis.

It applies to all of us.

So I guess I don't understand your question...

 

[Green Goblin]

If a man was alone on an island with no outside contact, would he come to a knowledge of God?

 

[Senator Pleasury]

If a man was alone on an island with no outside contact, would he come to a knowledge of God?

He either doesn't or he does the way Tom hanks came to the knowledge of Wilson.