The Atheism Thread - Part 7

[DarkSovereignty]

Give up your woolly ways and accept the Jesus into your life, sinners.

 

[KevanG]

I don't know, maybe like snap your fingers and they are saved

They have to know that someone else was horrifically murdered in order for nice things to happen to them. Personally I think a cake and a card explaining it would have sufficed.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

The Bible: the original torture porn

 

[KevanG]

It's not that graphic but as a horror story it works wonders.

This invisible unknowable entity who knows your every thought could choose to kill you, ruin your life or just kill everybody on the planet because he doesn't like it. His followers keep dedicated records of the thousands killed by him and in his name and they celebrate the massacres. One story that his followers praise as good involves a bet with an 'evil' deity that he talks to as a friend that ruins a mans life, kills his family and forces him to suffer for years on end.

He killed nearly the entire worlds people and razed cities to the ground because he didn't like how they acted. If you follow him and pledge yourself to his service then upon death you shall join him in looking down upon the world but should you displease him even as a devoted follower then he shall kill your mortal form and make you burn and suffer until the end of time. There is no reasoning or pleading with him as all goes according to his plan.

Happy fun times for all amirite?

 

[regwec]

Don't forget that, even if you follow all the rules meticulously, it might just turn out that you aren't one of the elect anyway. Oops! You should have been born luckier! Lol!

Hellfire.

 

[SV Fan]

It's not that graphic but as a horror story it works wonders.

How about the story of Adam and Eve.

Basically the moral of the story is, as long as you do as I say and don't question authority you should be alright and everything will be puppies and rainbows. The thing that was made "evil" in that story is gaining knowledge. So the bible basically opens up with a story how knowledge is evil and don't question authority else you will rot in hell.

 

[KevanG]

So Shut up, obey and it's a womans fault is the meaning of that story.

 

[SV Fan]

So Shut up, obey and it's a womans fault is the meaning of that story.

I actually forgot how the story was rather misogynistic towards females so yeah

1. Do as I say or else
2. Don't question authority
3. Women Suck
4. Knowledge is evil

 

[DarkSovereignty]

You'll find that most of the bible is, in general, very mysoginist...because it was written by (wait for it) a bunch crusty old men seeking to keep the power.

 

[KevanG]

So now we have three! atheism/religious threads. Oh boy.

 

[Feenix]

So now we have three! atheism/religious threads. Oh boy.

Someone seems a little crabby today.

 

[KevanG]

Is it Charl?

Nah, it's just going to be even more bonkers now.

 

[Feenix]

Yaaaa. Total buzzkill.

 

[regwec]

THE RELIGIOUS MEMBERS WOULD RATHER THAT CERTAIN THINGS WERE NOT DISCUSSED.

 

[Feenix]

Wannabe mods are funny.


Especially when they try to bait people and then say they should be ignored.

 

[MrsKent26]

You'll find that most of the bible is, in general, very mysoginist...because it was written by (wait for it) a bunch crusty old men seeking to keep the power.

They lost me at that whole Eve is created from Adam's rib thing. She was created to be his subordinate from the very beginning. Truly, I hate the Adam and Eve story.

 

[SV Fan]

They lost me at that whole Eve is created from Adam's rib thing. She was created to be his subordinate from the very beginning. Truly, I hate the Adam and Eve story.

It definitely is a book that set out to make women, second class citizens from the get go. You look at some of the religions before Christianity/Judaism, some definitely seemed to have higher regard for females(Isis is the one that instantly comes to mind).

I always believe that if we had female "gods" as the focal point of today's modern religions, chances are the world would have been a much better place.

 

[KevanG]

Let's see, off the top of my head women who are evil in the bible: Eve, Lilith (depends on the version), Delilah.

Here's a webpage I found funny.

http://hwarmstrong.com/women-in-the-bible.htm

 

[rodhulk]

You think, but you would be wrong.

Not at all.

It couldn't. Evolution is based on evidence and if something is proven false by evidence, it is disregarded. Science seeks to find the truth, rather than claim something as truth for as long as people will believe it. It changes with the evidence in an effort to arrive at the truth.

But you believe this evidence leads to something more, that it makes most sense. So, I was correct in saying "it could."

.

The only things that I've agreed with are the parts that are observable in nature. None of what you've posted beyond those have had anything of any scientific basis. What the bible got correct was just things that anyone could see and verify for thousands of years without any type of 'extra' insight into the workings of the universe. Basic math, sciences and such that anyone could have figured out given the same resources and time building on what was already known.

If you take out all the religious aspects of the bible, odd reasoning I know, and just leave in anything that could be worked in with various sciences then you might get a page or two out of the whole thing. That's all and I'd be willing to bet that all of that is pure observation worked with extrapolating the information into a religious context.

Just curious but do you hold to the young earth theory with it being between 6000-10,000 years old or are you fine with the universe being billions of years old? Also, how do you feel about cavemen and such when we have records of various caves and other habitats that have been found that show not only to have previous states of evolution, such as neanderthal and cro-magnon but also that we can chart that evolution through tens of thousands of years with physical evidence including said habitats but also skeletons of adults and children that clearly show change over time into what we are today?

Does it really matter with you what I believe about how old the earth is? You haven't shown much if any 'thirst" since this began. Oh, and thanks for at least being a little honest amongst your friends here that the Bible (not me) got some things correct.

It really is fascinating. He just doesn't get it. Not even a little bit.

Although, I reckon he feels the same about us considering we don't think the Bible is absolute truth and proves God's existence simply by existing itself.

What I don't get is your continued denial of God even though nothing has been done away with (thanks be to God).

I don't think I'd want to go to a heaven that had people like rodhulk in it.

I'd welcome you because I know what that would mean!

So now you're a liar. I have, at length, went over this - describing occam's razor, showing you interpretations of the same passage that require far less assumptions, and I've done that multiple times now.





And you're STILL at it. You're STILL playing dumb. You're massively, grotesquely intellectually dishonest.

It should be trivial for anyone to understand why believing 'stretching out the heavens' is a reference to the big bang, is too big a leap.

You're only been over 'your own' take of it all. The Bible clearly says God created the universe and then spread things out, put them into their position. Things being spread out/expanding is not out of reason here with a relation between the Bible and the big bang theory.

One more time.


Follow me now, Rodhulk.



Anyone with the naked eye, thousands of years ago, on a clear night can see a sky that just goes on and on. Anyone can make that simple observation.


Do you get it?

Do you understand?

Anyone can make the simple observation that the sky reaches from one horizon to the other.

The prevailing belief in the church for a long time was the geocentric model. So why didn't they understand Job 9:8, as you interpret it?

Because you're interpreting it with hindsight, trying to make it fit with what we now know.

Giodano Bruno challenged the geocentric model in the 16th century. Be believed the night sky was infinite, he believed the sun was just another star, and that all the stars in the sky were other suns, and that there were other worlds, and the church persecuted him for that belief.

Bruno wasn't a scientist. He made a lucky guess.

And he goes much further, he was much more on the mark with what we now know, than simply stating 'god stretched out the heavens'.

'Stretched out the heavens' is a banal observation, and anyone that believes this references the big bang is a moron. I'm sorry, they just are. They're not being honest with themselves. You're not being honest with yourself.

This has already been answered above. And it doesn't matter what some of the Church did/does believe, this is not my belief nor the Christians/creationists that I am aware of. We do not teach the big bang but a very simply basic "idea" if you will, is apparent in both. Feel free to deny it. But what are you really denying? All I'm finding in your posts are struggling attempts to find an opposing view to me showing desperation in some of what you post. But I expect this as God's word is so clear.

I'm afraid that, as a believer in the literal truth of the bible, rodhulk will be well accustomed to shutting out evidence and bending reason, even when it is right in front of his eyes.

Funny how almost to all of what I have given has never been done away with. You've (and the others here) have only given me some "possibilities" as to potential other answers to the scripture. Not that they are the answer and in most to all cases, they sure seem far from it.

Joshua 11:4

And they went out, they and all their hosts with them, much people, even as the sand that is upon the sea shore in multitude, with horses and chariots very many.

This tells us that we will find sand by the sea- which is totally true!- and science would not know this until thousands of years later. Amen.

LOL... Sure some things are common knowledge, but some things are better understood in the future with the increased knowledge mankind has achieved.

I wonder what rodhulk is trying to accomplish with this "the Bible already knew scientific truths" thing. Even if true, it doesn't prove God exists. It may prove that writers of the Bible could observe things, but that's about it. The observations are still what a human could/would observe. No link to divinity has been established.

It sure would lead to support that god exists. Here' some other things that help support God as being true (from a previous post) and I say this not to you but the casual observer who may be questioning things:

Israel is a skeptics worst nightmare. The fulfilled prophecies with that nation cannot be overlooked. If one overlooks Israel, then I would think that especially Romans 1:20 and Psalm 10:4 rings true for them. Israel is for real and she is of God.

http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/Ar...sFulfilled.htm

http://therefinersfire.org/recent_prophecy.htm


You can also see that events taking place in the world are as per scripture said they would be.

http://www.raptureforums.com/BiblePr...01lastdays.cfm


Many of these people here who I have debated with will deny the scriptures, that they are full of contradictions. But God is good and does answer many of these supposed contradictions.

2 Timothy 3:16: "All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, correcting..."

http://thedevineevidence.com/skeptic...adictions.html

http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...cripture-index

(This one has to do with creation-evolution) http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-...tering-critics

In Psalm 104:6-9, the passage does indeed say that the mountains rose after these mountains (land) were under water. After these mountains rise, scripture only then indicates that the flood waters will not be able to flood the earth anymore - that boundaries have been set - would it be these newly formed mountains and valleys that are the boundaries? Regardless of that, the real point I am making here is that the Bible got it correct that mountains were under water at some point just as evolution says. The rising of these mountains is after a time they were under water according to the scripture and the sea fossils we find on mountain tops confirm evolution's explanation of why we find sea fossils on mountain tops, at least to the point of mountains rising after being under water. The Bible really did get it right even despite evolutionists denial of the flood account, the idea that evolutionists will say that the mountains were under water is exactly what this scripture says.... oh, and scripture says it perhaps thousands of years before evolutionists found this to be true.


Just so people can have a clear understanding on what scripture says about the "atheists/evolutionists" here in Romans 1:18-25:

God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Truly people here can see God and his ways rather than evolution which verse 23 seems to indicate but according to verse 22, these same (atheists/evolutionists) who think they are wise became fools. They know the truth (verse 21) but exchanged it for a lie (verse 25). But there is a light to all here and that is found in the goodness of God's son, Jesus. I will continue to pray and hope that you who are seeking the truth can find the God of the Bible, that his way is the true way.

As for all the insults being thrown my way (which I am fine with as it is expected - I've mentioned it before with all the hate), the reason I continue on with what I believe to be the truth is because: I'd rather be hated for speaking God's truth than hailed for trying to redefine it. Amen.

 

[MrsKent26]

It definitely is a book that set out to make women, second class citizens from the get go. You look at some of the religions before Christianity/Judaism, some definitely seemed to have higher regard for females(Isis is the one that instantly comes to mind).

I always believe that if we had female "gods" as the focal point of today's modern religions, chances are the world would have been a much better place.

Christianity (and most religions most of the time) has never done women any favors. That's where a good chunk of my distaste for religion comes from. Why should I believe in a God that thinks my gender should exist as a second class citizen? That sort of God does not deserve my worship.

 

[Doctor Evo]

You can still be sad that I refuse to engage in any debate with you but you had the chance and I will not engage in anything meaningful (with perhaps rare exceptions) with people who are full.

I lost interest in having this conversation with you a while ago - I'm sorry to burst your bubble. I find it curious that, for all of your refusal to engage me in conversation, you keep responding to my comments, however.

 

[KevanG]

Does it really matter with you what I believe about how old the earth is? You haven't shown much if any 'thirst" since this began. Oh, and thanks for at least being a little honest amongst your friends here that the Bible (not me) got some things correct.

I've been answering you previously and no I have no interest in joining any religion. I'm just curious as to what you believe and why. I'm trying to understand where you come from in your reasoning and why despite information given to you, you refuse to talk about it and deny it exists. I've read various links you've put up and very little of it has any type of sound scientific basis. It's mostly just conjecture and cherry picking quotes, ideas and graphs from various sources and combining them to make them seem feasible.

 

[rodhulk]

I lost interest in having this conversation with you a while ago - I'm sorry to burst your bubble. I find it curious that, for all of your refusal to engage me in conversation, you keep responding to my comments, however.

Yes but I did mention that I still might post to you, too. Funny how you keep forgetting that. But I have not engaged in any large discussion with you. And it's funny how you keep posting to me. Hmmmmm....

 

[DarkSovereignty]

And this thread was just starting to become bearable again

 

[MrsKent26]

Let's see, off the top of my head women who are evil in the bible: Eve, Lilith (depends on the version), Delilah.

Here's a webpage I found funny.

http://hwarmstrong.com/women-in-the-bible.htm

Thank you for that. Great web page.

What I don't get is your continued denial of God even though nothing has been done away with (thanks be to God).

What do you mean by "nothing has been done away with"?

It sure would lead to support that god exists. Here' some other things that help support God as being true (from a previous post) and I say this not to you but the casual observer who may be questioning things:

Israel is a skeptics worst nightmare. The fulfilled prophecies with that nation cannot be overlooked. If one overlooks Israel, then I would think that especially Romans 1:20 and Psalm 10:4 rings true for them. Israel is for real and she is of God.

http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/Ar...sFulfilled.htm

http://therefinersfire.org/recent_prophecy.htm


You can also see that events taking place in the world are as per scripture said they would be.

http://www.raptureforums.com/BiblePr...01lastdays.cfm


Many of these people here who I have debated with will deny the scriptures, that they are full of contradictions. But God is good and does answer many of these supposed contradictions.

2 Timothy 3:16: "All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, correcting..."

http://thedevineevidence.com/skeptic...adictions.html

http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...cripture-index

(This one has to do with creation-evolution) http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-...tering-critics

In Psalm 104:6-9, the passage does indeed say that the mountains rose after these mountains (land) were under water. After these mountains rise, scripture only then indicates that the flood waters will not be able to flood the earth anymore - that boundaries have been set - would it be these newly formed mountains and valleys that are the boundaries? Regardless of that, the real point I am making here is that the Bible got it correct that mountains were under water at some point just as evolution says. The rising of these mountains is after a time they were under water according to the scripture and the sea fossils we find on mountain tops confirm evolution's explanation of why we find sea fossils on mountain tops, at least to the point of mountains rising after being under water. The Bible really did get it right even despite evolutionists denial of the flood account, the idea that evolutionists will say that the mountains were under water is exactly what this scripture says.... oh, and scripture says it perhaps thousands of years before evolutionists found this to be true.


Just so people can have a clear understanding on what scripture says about the "atheists/evolutionists" here:

God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Truly people here can see God and his ways rather than evolution which verse 21 seems to indicate but according to verse 2 these same who think they are wise became fools. I will continue to pray and hope that you who are seeking the truth can find the God of the Bible, that his way is the true way.

As for all the insults being thrown my way (which I am fine with as it is expected - I've mentioned it before with all the hate), the reason I continue on with what I believe to be the truth is because: I'd rather be hated for speaking God's truth than hailed for trying to redefine it. Amen.

That stuff about Israel is just people interpreting things in convenient ways to prove something that they would never give up even with overwhelming evidence against it.

Some have claimed that things the Mayans (people of a completely different religion) predicted have come true. Some people actually thought the world would end in 2012, but it didn't.

This doesn't prove God exists at all. There is simply no evidence that God exists as a true divine being except for the Bible, which was written by humans and interpreted by them over the years. Only religious people would accept the Bible as evidence anyway. Can you imagine, in any other case but with religions like Christianity, if a book written by humans was considered evidence? It's unlikely that a court would even send a man to jail based on evidence like that and you expect me to believe people should base their lives around it or be damned for eternity?

As for this stuff about atheists and evolutionists being wicked: It's all hogwash. It's designed to scare people into believing something very illogical. It's condemning independent thought and humans gaining more knowledge about the world they live in. It's not good. Stuff like that holds society back.