The Atheism Thread - Part 7

[rodhulk]

I've been answering you previously and no I have no interest in joining any religion. I'm just curious as to what you believe and why. I'm trying to understand where you come from in your reasoning and why despite information given to you, you refuse to talk about it and deny it exists. I've read various links you've put up and very little of it has any type of sound scientific basis. It's mostly just conjecture and cherry picking quotes, ideas and graphs from various sources and combining them to make them seem feasible.

You've been answering me but now I see that you have no interest in any truth of the Bible as even when you mention that some may be true, you still want nothing to do with it. As for me refusing that something doesn't exist, I haven't been provided with any information that shows me anything different than what I believe. Just because somebody doesn't believe what you believe doesn't have to mean anything more than "I just simply don't believe it has been shown or proven to me." In fact, I find you guys refuse to accept anything (though you may have - I don't know anymore) yet accuse me of the same..... Another hmmmmm.....

 

[webhead9707]

Christianity (and most religions most of the time) has never done women any favors. That's where a good chunk of my distaste for religion comes from. Why should I believe in a God that thinks my gender should exist as a second class citizen? That sort of God does not deserve my worship.

I'm not looking to get in any arguments here, but I would like to point out that Jesus, while on earth, treated women pretty well. I know there are the verses that refer to the woman as the "weaker vessel" but those were talking about their stance in society, women didn't have as much power in society at that time. I know there are some instances in other sections of the Bible that could be interpreted to mean God looks at women as weaker, but I personally feel that what Jesus did is the most important aspect of being able to see the character of God. At any length, I am a Christian and I do not look down on women. I'm actually a bit of a feminist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus'_interactions_with_women#High_number_of_references_to_women

 

[MrsKent26]

In fact, I find you guys refuse to accept anything (though you may have - I don't know anymore) yet accuse me of the same..... Another hmmmmm.....

It's because we believe we're correct, rodhulk.

Our beliefs make sense. We don't need to open our minds and "seek the truth" because we already do that. We simply don't believe in something that we've never seen for ourselves or felt any impact from whatsoever.

 

[rodhulk]

And this thread was just starting to become bearable again

Hey, you guys keep posting to me.

What do you mean by "nothing has been done away with"?



That stuff about Israel is just people interpreting things in convenient ways to prove something that they would never give up even with overwhelming evidence against it.

Some have claimed that things the Mayans (people of a completely different religion) predicted have come true. Some people actually thought the world would end in 2012, but it didn't.

This doesn't prove God exists at all. There is simply no evidence that God exists as a true divine being except for the Bible, which was written by humans and interpreted by them over the years. Only religious people would accept the Bible as evidence anyway. Can you imagine, in any other case but with religions like Christianity, if a book written by humans was considered evidence? It's unlikely that a court would even send a man to jail based on evidence like that and you expect me to believe people should base their lives around it or be damned for eternity?

As for this stuff about atheists and evolutionists being wicked: It's all hogwash. It's designed to scare people into believing something very illogical. It's condemning independent thought and humans gaining more knowledge about the world they live in. It's not good. Stuff like that holds society back.

I can't make it any clearer that nothing has been done away with.

As for the Mayan stuff and other religions, I'm here for the Bible, not that. I haven't seen truth in anything else like I see in the Bible.

As for Israel, there is way too much with her as a nation that I can't just bush aside. There is way too much in other things that I have posted that can't be done "away with." Only when one reads Romans 1:18-25 does the meaning of what I am trying to say, about people denying God, can be made clear. But there is hope for all if you seek with an open mind.

 

[MrsKent26]

I'm not looking to get in any arguments here, but I would like to point out that Jesus, while on earth, treated women pretty well. I know there are the verses that refer to the woman as the "weaker vessel" but those were talking about their stance in society, women didn't have as much power in society at that time. I know there are some instances in other sections of the Bible that could be interpreted to mean God looks at women as weaker, but I personally feel that what Jesus did is the most important aspect of being able to see the character of God. At any length, I am a Christian and I do not look down on women. I'm actually a bit of a feminist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus'_interactions_with_women#High_number_of_references_to_women

I'm sure Jesus did treat women well. I also believe religious people can be feminists, as there are many ways to be religious and interpret religious teachings. Some Christians even critique the Bible a bit and choose to believe more in some aspects of it and less in others. However, I think the Bible features misogynistic stories and teachings, which have no doubt contributed to negative impacts on the lives of many women over many years.

 

[MrsKent26]

I can't make it any clearer that nothing has been done away with.

As for the Mayan stuff and other religions, I'm here for the Bible, not that. I haven't seen truth in anything else like I see in the Bible.

As for Israel, there is way too much with her as a nation that I can't just bush aside. There is way too much in other things that I have posted that can't be done "away with." Only when one reads Romans 1:18-25 does the meaning of what I am trying to say, about people denying God, can be made clear. But there is hope for all if you seek with an open mind.

Hmm. Well, I guess I can brush it aside. I think people see what they want to see with regards to the Bible. However, I do thank you for taking the time to respond anyways.

 

[KevanG]

rodhulk, I have never said that I was interested in joining you. I've said from the start I've been trying to figure out where your head is on various topics. I've been responding to your various answers to both myself and others here with my own points and when requesting serious rebuttals you post things like that where you just tell us we aren't interested. We're just asking for some sort of solid tangible evidence in order to consider your position valid.

The issue we have with blind faith in religion is that there is almost nothing besides generic prophecies which can and have been attributed to hundreds of various phenomena over the centuries which is every bit as valid as today. Take the blood moon that so many people and news articles claimed to represent the 'end times' and yet that is a naturally occurring phenomena that has happened for centuries and will continue to do so and yet, it's listed in the bible as a sign of the end times. There isn't even a consensus within the church itself anymore as to it being a global flood or a local one.

As we continue in our study of the universe, religions that hold to a creator god are able to come up with less and less answers to what we are able to observe. The books that were written thousands of years ago for a simpler people just don't have the answers beyond basic morality and even then the conventions of the time are much different today. Compare what they say even from the OT to the NT and what the NT says in it's entirety (no skipping) and see what would be considered illegal or immoral today. Things change and things have changed more in the last century than in the previous two millennia, there's just no way that they could have expected such changes and it shows.

 

[Feenix]

I love watching Cosmos and learning about the scientists who lived in a time of religion (and who would have been killed for being atheists) and how they question how things work/happen, like rainbows. They could have shrugged their shoulders and said "god did it", but they didn't and they ended up figuring out the real reason why things are the way they are. If god doesn't need to be present for rainbows to appear, or for the stars to shine like they do, then it's logical that god doesn't need to be present for anything.

 

[webhead9707]

I'm sure Jesus did treat women well. I also believe religious people can be feminists, as there are many ways to be religious and interpret religious teachings. Some Christians even critique the Bible a bit and choose to believe more in some aspects of it and less in others. However, I think the Bible features misogynistic stories and teachings, which have no doubt contributed to negative impacts on the lives of many women over many years.

Can't really argue with you on that one.

 

[SV Fan]

I'm sure Jesus did treat women well. I also believe religious people can be feminists, as there are many ways to be religious and interpret religious teachings. Some Christians even critique the Bible a bit and choose to believe more in some aspects of it and less in others. However, I think the Bible features misogynistic stories and teachings, which have no doubt contributed to negative impacts on the lives of many women over many years.

Sort of a shame the Roman Catholic church sort of whitewashed the roll of females in the life of Jesus and the early years of Christianity. Going by the story of Jesus, the females basically were the ones who bankrolled Jesus' traveling circus, as for the early years of Christianity, it was females who basically pushed the movement forward(helping people(offering a place for people to stay or free healthcare), taking a big roll in preaching, etc).

 

[Doctor Evo]

Yes but I did mention that I still might post to you, too. Funny how you keep forgetting that. But I have not engaged in any large discussion with you. And it's funny how you keep posting to me. Hmmmmm....

I didn't "post to you," at least not until you "post[ed] to" me. At this point you come off as antagonistic and more than a little childish.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I can't even remember responding to him, yet apparently I "keep posting to him," despite the fact that there is literally no worthwhile conversation I foresee myself having with him.

 

[KevanG]

You just can't get enough.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Not sure what the "kind of" is supposed to mean. I've been called joyless before, but I've never had it equated with atheism. In fact, I've never heard that people find atheists particularly joyless unless a belief in God is required to experience joy.

Ma'am I think your reading far to much into an off the cuff joke.

Wasn't meant to be overanalyzed like that.

You know I love yah but sometimes...

 

[MrsKent26]

Ma'am I think your reading far to much into an off the cuff joke.

Wasn't meant to be overanalyzed like that.

You know I love yah but sometimes...

I already made a response to your last post a few pages back:

Not offended, just unsure if you meant anything by the "kind of" or not.

 

[The End]

You're only been over 'your own' take of it all. The Bible clearly says God created the universe and then spread things out, put them into their position. Things being spread out/expanding is not out of reason here with a relation between the Bible and the big bang theory.


This has already been answered above.

No it hasn't. ALL you've demonstrated is that you're willing to make massive leaps in logic, to make the bible fit with science.

And it doesn't matter what some of the Church did/does believe, this is not my belief nor the Christians/creationists that I am aware of. We do not teach the big bang but a very simply basic "idea" if you will, is apparent in both. Feel free to deny it. But what are you really denying? All I'm finding in your posts are struggling attempts to find an opposing view to me showing desperation in some of what you post. But I expect this as God's word is so clear.

It's basic logic. I don't know how else to put it. You're not even addressing the other interpretations put forward. You're not addressing the logical, philosophical argument of Occam's Razor. You are cutting yourself on Occam's Razor when you insist Job 9:8 is a reference to the big bang.

You seemingly do not care about whether or not your position is logical. You're literally willing to leap to the belief that contains the most assumptions, which is illogical.

Funny how almost to all of what I have given has never been done away with.

What exactly do you think this sentence means?


It seems like you're saying that "you can't prove my interpretation wrong".

I'm pretty sure I've already pointed out to you that this is a logical fallacy called the Argument from Ignorance.

If you're interested in truth and your arguments leading to truth, you have to care about whether or not your arguments are logical. They're not. Take the time to learn about logical fallacies.


Here's the thing Rodhulk. It should be trivial for you to understand why your conclusion about Job 9:8 is a massive leap in logic. But you keep holding to your interpretation as though its fact. It should be trivial to accept that there could be other interpretations with less assumptions, but you keep denying logic to hold onto conclusions with massive assumptions built in.

Face it. You're a fundamentalist. If you can't accept basic logic on such a trivial passage, you're a lost cause.

 

[regwec]

Fundamentalism may be one issue, cognitive ability may be another.

 

[The End]

'Stretching out the heavens' = reference to big bang.

Assumption.

This is a reference to a specific event in reality.

Assumption.

This referenced event is cosmological.

Assumption.

This referenced event took place 13 billion years ago.

Assumption.

This referenced event is the super-dense state of the universe, when the universe was tinier than the objects sitting on your desk.

Assumption.

This referenced event is the explosion and expansion of the universe from its super-dense state.

Assumption.

This event, along with gravity, is what lead to the formation of elements and stars, curiously left out of the description in Job 9:8 along with other key descriptions of the big bang.

Assumption.

This referenced event refers to the cosmological model of the universe that wouldn't be theorized or understood or have would not have any observational evidence for it until the 20th century.



This referenced event contradicts literal interpretations of the bible that held very different models of the universe centuries earlier than the theorization of the big bang.

OR

'Stretches out the heavens' is a metaphor for the power of god.

AND/OR

'Stretches out the heavens' is based on the simple observation for how the sky looks at night, and how the sky looks when you look at it from horizon to horizon.

 

[serendipity]

I actually forgot how the story was rather misogynistic towards females so yeah

1. Do as I say or else
2. Don't question authority
3. Women Suck
4. Knowledge is evil

Also, starting with Eve all women are cursed with the menstrual cycle because she ate from the tree.

Because women need another resource on how ashamed of themselves they should be.

 

[KevanG]

Hidey-ho welcome to the thread.

 

[serendipity]

Yo.

I noticed people were deconstructing traditional beliefs of the Bible and thought I'd pop in.

 

[MrsKent26]

I think I'll stick around here. That other thread is asking for trouble....I don't want to be around when the ban stick comes out.


Also, I agree serendipity. That whole Adam and Eve story is misogynistic. Women never had a chance from the very beginning.

 

[KevanG]

They had a chance and they blew it!

I kid I kid. Don't hurt me.

 

[MrsKent26]

^ I won't hurt you. But those brownies I said I was gonna mail you might be later than expected....

 

[KevanG]

You still didn't mail them?