The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 49

[Whiskey Tango]

What do you mean by that Terry?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking

 

[BigThor]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking

Ah ok I see what he means now, thanks Whiskey.

Captain America had blood squibs! Name me another superhero movie that had genuine Paul Verhoeven esque blood squibs!!?!?!?

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Yep it was very awesome and I don't think I can.

 

[The Morningstar]

haha i love reading tvtropes. It can entertain me for hours. And it's actually a pretty good resource for aspiring writers. Which i am... not.

 

[Xeno]

Damage Control.

And for the topic at hand I personally have zero interest in seeing a bunch of civilians turned into red paste in every movie. One can let the audience come to their own conclusions through smashed buildings and wrecked cars and general destruction that results from superpowered fights without outright showing it. Anything beyond what a typical disaster film portrays would be overdoing it imo, and even that is probably a bit too much.

^^^This.


When I see a superhero film I assume the mass casualties. There is no need for excessive gore, bodies piled up, etc. Even in the first Transformers movie, one could clearly tell that bystanders were killed, either outright murdered by Megatron or crushed under falling robots, when buildings were crashed into, and so on. When a director as crude and obvious as Bay doesn't feel the need to show mangled bodies in a PG-13 movie, the decisions of others needn't be questioned IMO.


With flaming debris raining down on city streets, massive explosions, aliens shooting at heroes and civilians alike, lasers slicing through buildings and Hulk et al. crashing through them, one can safely assume that the number of deaths in The Avengers will be high. Will they show a lot of bodies? Probably not.


On a related note, the Red Skull did shell and presumably wipe out the town of Tonsberg. That counts as mass civilian casualties to me.

 

[WildcatNC]

I agree. While the "Inglorious Bastards" side of me love to have Cap going all bloody and stuff, realistically this is a superhero movie that tried to appeal to a PG-13 crowd. Vaporizing the soldiers from the Allies and HYDRA allowed them to actually show death without going over-the-top, and I think this is a smart arrangement since the kiddies won't be too traumatized because there's no bodies involved. As for Cap being too violent, well it is still a WWII movie that we can't have a war where nobody died, can we?

I think its a simple matter of "if collateral damage or civilian casualties serve the plot or narrative then do it".

It can show a crisis of ethics for the hero, or make the audience hate the villain. It shouldn't be done to just do it, nor left out for "family", IMO.

This is America. We LOVE violence. Its boobs and dirty words that send everyone in an uproar.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

haha i love reading tvtropes. It can entertain me for hours. And it's actually a pretty good resource for aspiring writers. Which i am... not.

That site is like cracked.com or wikipedia for me tho, every time I go there I risk clicking away my entire afternoon.

 

[Poni_Boy]

No I wasn't serious, just pointing at the ridiculousness of Vader's telekenetic choking as a viable, evil threat compared to shooting someone.

I agree. While the "Inglorious Bastards" side of me love to have Cap going all bloody and stuff, realistically this is a superhero movie that tried to appeal to a PG-13 crowd. Vaporizing the soldiers from the Allies and HYDRA allowed them to actually show death without going over-the-top, and I think this is a smart arrangement since the kiddies won't be too traumatized because there's no bodies involved. As for Cap being too violent, well it is still a WWII movie that we can't have a war where nobody died, can we?

Oh we absolutely can I loved those scenes because they brought a sense of fantastical realism to the film. I'm just commenting that the film was surprisingly violent compared to all other Marvel Studios ones. The closest to it would be when Iron Man gave six Ten Rings terrorists the cherry pie treatment (win!)

 

[The Morningstar]

That site is like cracked.com or wikipedia for me tho, every time I go there I risk clicking away my entire afternoon.

Yea exactly lol. I did that last night. Can't remember what i originally was looking at, but then i kept clicking on these funny sounding tropes. Next thing i know i've been reading tvtropes for about 4 hours.

 

[BigThor]

I think its a simple matter of "if collateral damage or civilian casualties serve the plot or narrative then do it".

It can show a crisis of ethics for the hero, or make the audience hate the villain. It shouldn't be done to just do it, nor left out for "family", IMO.

This is America. We LOVE violence. Its boobs and dirty words that send everyone in an uproar.

Agreed, especially with the part in the bold font.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yeah, you don't have to actually show people getting killed to show that the villain is a real threat. Your typical Bond villain creates a threat that is usually absolutely devastating to humanity and earth, but of course he never gets a chance to use his supersecret megaultraweapon, and yet the audience is fully aware that he means business.

Or in Vader's case, above, everybody in the audience knew in an instant the first time they saw him stalking into the blockade runner with his flowing black cape and skull mask that this dude was bad news.

id actually argue that the music should get most of the credit for that scene... and the sounds of him breathing. Not his costume.

 

[Xeno]

Personally I didn't realize that Vader or the Empire were any kind of a threat until they blew up Alderaan and we saw a montage of all them peoples dying. That, and when the Ewok was shot in the back.

Wait, there was a montage of people dying on Alderaan? All I remember was the planet being blown to (non-CGI but still impressive at the time) smithereens.

 

[Chewy]

Wait, there was a montage of people dying on Alderaan? All I remember was the planet being blown to (non-CGI but still impressive at the time) smithereens.

 

[Xeno]

I though maybe Lucas had added it in his wretched Special Editions.

 

[The Morningstar]

If that was the case, it would be a bunch of wooden actors screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[Crimson King]

Or "NEEEEIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNN" in the German version.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I though maybe Lucas had added it in his wretched Special Editions.

He isn't dead yet, I'm sure he'll go to the well again.

 

[TheVileOne]

I know what you guys are talking about earlier.

Basically you guys want Transformers, Michael Bay, and Will Smith style disaster, destruction, and rubble but in a comic book superhero movie.

But it looks like we are finally going to see a little bit of that here. And not to mention superheroes actually fighting together onscreen which we've never really seen in any of these movies before. There was a little bit in X-Men 3 but even there I felt ripped off.

 

[Gunga Diner]

Got tickets for the midnight show yesterday. It's surreal.

I considered going to the ULTIMATE MOVIE MARATHON thing, but decided against it. I don't want to be exhausted by these characters when The Avengers starts. Cool idea though.

 

[TheVileOne]

I kind of want to do the ultimate marathon. Chances are I will be able to see Avengers first anyway. I did the Iron Man and Iron Man 2 double feature but I was able to see Iron Man 2 first.

I think they should re-shoot Incredible Hulk with Mark Ruffalo .

Do it Spartacus style.

 

[metaphysician]

um Thor goes THROUGH the Frost beast's head, Cap THROWS Hydra Agents out of a plain, I'm sure they aren't going to avoid anything except the actual GORE.

You misread me. I said avoiding *collateral* damage. Those casualties weren't collateral. They were *intentional* casualties. . . inflicted upon the bad guys.

Marvel has, so far, been entirely fine with the good guys killing the bad guys, where appropriate. What they are not fine with, is the good guys accidentally killing innocent bystanders, or showing reckless disregard for innocent bystanders when battling a villain. Hence why, first thing Tony does in the final battle in Iron Man 2 is "take the fight to the air, away from the crowds as much as possible."

 

[Matt Mortem]

I'm planning on doing a Marvel Movie Marathon at my place before The Avengers anyhow. It's neat that AMC is offering that though.

 

[darkslayer101]

Got tickets for the midnight show yesterday. It's surreal.

I considered going to the ULTIMATE MOVIE MARATHON thing, but decided against it. I don't want to be exhausted by these characters when The Avengers starts. Cool idea though.

i too decided not to buy the marathon because by the time the 5 movies are done i will be very tired and exhausted enough to not get hyped for avengers...
plus i have ma blu-rays to enjoy at my home

 

[Kane52630]

 

[BigThor]

I know what you guys are talking about earlier.

Basically you guys want Transformers, Michael Bay, and Will Smith style disaster, destruction, and rubble but in a comic book superhero movie.

But it looks like we are finally going to see a little bit of that here. And not to mention superheroes actually fighting together onscreen which we've never really seen in any of these movies before. There was a little bit in X-Men 3 but even there I felt ripped off.

Yeah we did get ripped with off with the "team up" battle in X3, I was like "is this it, this is the best they could do"?

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

Damage Control.

And for the topic at hand I personally have zero interest in seeing a bunch of civilians turned into red paste in every movie. One can let the audience come to their own conclusions through smashed buildings and wrecked cars and general destruction that results from superpowered fights without outright showing it. Anything beyond what a typical disaster film portrays would be overdoing it imo, and even that is probably a bit too much.

Yeah, but here's where I foresee a problem. When you underplay death as a direct result of an invasion/catastrophe type premise that Avengers is setting, then were're really just fighting against villains who are causing property damage. Morningstar probably said it best, that it ends up being the latest display of CG technology thrown in our faces for 2 hours.

I'm not in the blood and gore camp by any means, but I'm not of the opinion that death should be underplayed or implied instead of actually depicted in some way shape or form. Think about the last Harry Potter. Anyone who's read the books (keeping in mind that these books are aimed at kids and young adults) know that death was an extremely big part of that story. I for one thought that most of the main characters deaths were extremely underplayed, and this wasn't even from being maimed or shot or beaten to death. It was from a magic spell that makes you dead. I thought that a lot of the emotion that should have been there was lost because those characters deaths took a back seat to everything Harry was doing.

It's not a sin to show a little death. Especially if it helps cement Loki and his army as more than just a glorified demolition crew. It can be done tastefully and still be "family friendly."