The Batman General News & Discussion Thread - Part 2

[shauner111]

The amount you guys want pedo stuff and rape in this is a bit weird ngl.

Nobody cares if that stuff happens or not. We’re just saying it can be done. But be a ******* and start making gross personal jabs. Sure why not Eddie. THAT is weird ngl.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

So do you also think it's lame that they made Riddler a Zodiac style serial killer? Or when Miller made Catwoman a prostitute? It's funny to see who draws the line as being lame to "too much". When the idea is to think of ways to make villains actual despicable villains. And to make it work within the context of a real world, like making Edward a serial killer.

Yes. I did think it was lame when Miller made Catwoman a prostitute. I find Millers take on certain female characters to be weird in general.

 

[Captain Tired]

Laz, seeing as how you have Carrie Kelly for your avi, how would you feel if she was actually the first Robin and Dick had an alternative storyline that has him going straight to becoming Nightwing instead?

I think I know Lazarus well enough to know that he won't settle for anything less than Dick. Lazarus is all. about. Dick.

 

[Captain Tired]

I'm somewhat surprised how that synopsis kind of just spells out Batman's whole arc in the film.

The most surprising thing to me about the synopsis is that 'edgy' is now apparently being used as a positive descriptive.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Laz, seeing as how you have Carrie Kelly for your avi, how would you feel if she was actually the first Robin and Dick had an alternative storyline that has him going straight to becoming Nightwing instead?

I wouldn’t want that, I think Dick Grayson is the only Robin I want to see in this franchise tbh. But I’d love to see Carrie with Michael Keaton

 

[shauner111]

Yes. I did think it was lame when Miller made Catwoman a prostitute. I find Millers take on certain female characters to be weird in general.

At least you’re consistent! And that’s fair. But I don’t find it lame myself. So we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Mindreaper21]

The amount you guys want pedo stuff and rape in this is a bit weird ngl.

It’s not that I want to actually see it on screen personally. What I want is for Hatter to be fully embraced for the character that he is. Him targeting children has been part of his character for a long time and has been adapted in many incarnations. We’re not asking for anything that hasn’t already been established. Like some of us have said, we’d like it to be alluded to. Hatter just is who he is.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Loving that synopsis. I do think there's obviously a ton of stuff in there we don't know about, even if the synopsis appears to give away a lot haha. Some of it we could've guessed.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Nobody WANTS to see child abuse or pedophilia in a Batman movie, wtf? It’s in the comics, there’s a precedent for it. It’s not like we’re pulling this aspect of Mad Hatter out of thin air. If Reeves used him and IF he wanted to go that route, it would be terrifying, awful, and yet comic accurate.

 

[shauner111]

Same goes for Zsasz. You think that guy didn’t give off rapey vibes in Birds of Prey?

 

[BatsAndNights]

I feel like you can still do an interesting interpretation of Hatter without going that route. Rather than go...sexual in nature, you could maybe take the Alice story angle and make it more that Hatter's trying to bring that "vision" to life. Maybe have it be that he used to act out the story as a child and he uses children to recreate that time in his life. But because of his severe delusions and mental illness, he can't see the severe harm it's causing them. Or maybe he does and just doesn't care because he wants to recreate his childhood and his perception of himself that badly.

Also, I swear Hatter as a pedophile is only present in ASHOSE? Otherwise it's not really mentioned. It's a possible avenue you can go down, but not necessarily the only one.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Mad Hatter sold children to the prime minister of a foreign country in Robin Year One. It’s ****ing awful and doesn’t need to be in a Batman movie, but it would be comic accurate.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Same goes for Zsasz. You think that guy didn’t give off rapey vibes in Birds of Prey?

I actually think BoP had a good balance of having a sexually threatening vibe without being too overt.

There’s a lot of interesting thematic stuff in that movie with its villains in general that deserves more attention.

 

[shauner111]

I feel like you can still do an interesting interpretation of Hatter without going that route. Rather than go...sexual in nature, you could maybe take the Alice story angle and make it more that Hatter's trying to bring that "vision" to life. Maybe have it be that he used to act out the story as a child and he uses children to recreate that time in his life. But because of his severe delusions and mental illness, he can't see the severe harm it's causing them. Or maybe he does and just doesn't care because he wants to recreate his childhood and his perception of himself that badly.

Also, I swear Hatter as a pedophile is only present in ASHOSE? Otherwise it's not really mentioned. It's a possible avenue you can go down, but not necessarily the only one.

So he’s based off of Michael Jackson? Lol

 

[Mindreaper21]

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Mad Hatter sold children to the prime minister of a foreign country in Robin Year One. It’s ****ing awful and doesn’t need to be in a Batman movie, but it would be comic accurate.
View attachment 50373

I mean, I mostly hate that comic too - weird, gross yellow peril stuff that I might give a pass as non-malicious if it wasn’t written by a man who would go on to write literal QAnon comics. Chuck Dixon is a hack, I like Batgirl: Year One but the rest of his career is just generic schlock.

I will grant the child predator Hatter stuff works in ASHOSE because that is a book with actual substance written by a real writer, but it’s important to keep in mind that the interpretations of those characters aren’t really meant to be ‘standard’ versions of them or ones that would ever be used in a more traditional Batman story. Morrison would be the first to tell you that

 

[BatsAndNights]

So he’s based off of Michael Jackson? Lol

...

That wasn't even intentional, but yes lmao

Hell, Matt himself has said that his approach has been trying to make the villains comparable to what we've seen in real life, so I meeeeeeeeeean

 

[shauner111]

...

That wasn't even intentional, but yes lmao

Hell, Matt himself has said that his approach has been trying to make the villains comparable to what we've seen in real life, so I meeeeeeeeeean

The wonderland connection would actually make sense haha.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Circling back to BoP, I think Mask and Victor are less coded as rapey and more just misogynists who enjoy demeaning and hurting women. They’re more based on misogynistic queer men than heterosexual sexual predators.

 

[shauner111]

If this Riddler is tied in any way to that level of abuse. Or even hinting that this may have happened to orphans in the city, then I don’t think they’d follow that up with another story like that anyway. I just think if you’re going to go down that route story-wise, the one character to match that up to would be Mad Hatter because of the history. It’s like doing a secret society but never connecting it to the Court of Owls. You don’t have to, but if there was ever a time...

Everything we’ve heard doesn’t point to Hatter showing up anyway. All those old scoops seem to be lies regarding Firefly and Mad Hatter.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Yes. I did think it was lame when Miller made Catwoman a prostitute. I find Millers take on certain female characters to be weird in general.

Yeah you can do Selina as a sex worker (and to be fair Year One is the least gross of Miller’s… issues with women bleeding through into his comics) but it mostly just feels rooted in Miller’s sexual hang ups and fan service rather than doing anything with that concept.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I feel like you can still do an interesting interpretation of Hatter without going that route. Rather than go...sexual in nature, you could maybe take the Alice story angle and make it more that Hatter's trying to bring that "vision" to life. Maybe have it be that he used to act out the story as a child and he uses children to recreate that time in his life. But because of his severe delusions and mental illness, he can't see the severe harm it's causing them. Or maybe he does and just doesn't care because he wants to recreate his childhood and his perception of himself that badly.

Also, I swear Hatter as a pedophile is only present in ASHOSE? Otherwise it's not really mentioned. It's a possible avenue you can go down, but not necessarily the only one.

ASHOSE is the only one that outright says it. Gotham took it a step further by saying he abused his younger sister and its the things that Hatter says to her that alludes to him being a pedo.

 

[BatsAndNights]

Another thing worth mentioning is Reeves definitely seems to have an affinity for the 60s show. There's the Shakespeare statue prop in the background of a shot in the BTS video, the suit was reported to be inspired by the Adam West suit (which seems pretty buyable?) and most importantly, every Rogue used in this movie was in the 60s show. So saying he's gonna mainly focus on them is a pretty reasonable prediction imo

 

[shauner111]

Circling back to BoP, I think Mask and Victor are less coded as rapey and more just misogynists who enjoy demeaning and hurting women. They’re more based on misogynistic queer men than heterosexual sexual predators.

Sionis just came off as a misogynist sadist but Zsasz had rapey vibes to me.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I mean, I mostly hate that comic too - weird, gross yellow peril stuff that I might give a pass as non-malicious if it wasn’t written by a man who would go on to write literal QAnon comics. Chuck Dixon is a hack, I like Batgirl: Year One but the rest of his career is just generic schlock.

I will grant the child predator Hatter stuff works in ASHOSE because that is a book with actual substance written by a real writer, but it’s important to keep in mind that the interpretations of those characters aren’t really meant to be ‘standard’ versions of them or ones that would ever be used in a more traditional Batman story. Morrison would be the first to tell you that

Damn, yikes… I didn’t know that about Dixon. FWIW, I still love Robin Year One. The dynamic between Bruce, Dick, and Alfred is the best part of the story. I’d definitely draw from that story and Dark Victory for a Robin origin.

My favorite version of Mad Hatter is from BTAS. Now that I think of it, it’s strange how little representation he’s gotten in animation.