Superman Returns The "Brando" Footage ...

[supzfan]

Of course everyone is influenced by somebody. That's how we learn, get inspired and, hopefully, develop and grow. Ray Harryhausen was influenced by Willis O'Brien, Eric Clapton by Robert Johnson, Frank Frazetta by Hal Foster but these guys and other artists took those influences, assimilated them, mixed then with their own individual temperaments and came up with something different and new. I don't agree that everybody has to steal in order to create something. The issue isn't whether Donner gave permission to Singer to use the clip of Brando. The point is that it's not Singer's clip to begin with. People in the audience aren't stupid. They are going to see that scene and think of STM and the second they do--"POOF"--there goes the illusion of "Returns" being an original film. Routh and Singer already have their work cut out for them as those inevitable comparisons between this movie and STM have only just started. Chris Reeve's portrayal of The Man Of Steel is still very fresh in the minds of millions of people. I would think that from a dramatic point of view the last thing Singer would want would be to set himself up to compete with the original movie.

 

[Xan-El]

Apparently 90% of what singer is using is straight from STM, and that a lot of the missing Jor-El stuff from Superman 2 is mostly stuff that Singer didn't even have access to (was actually unearthed after Singer used what he used).

So I don't think there needs to be any worrying about any overlap between what's in SR and what's on the new cut of Superman 2, or Singer using Brando meaning that some stuff will be left out of SUperman 2. What they've used is largelydifferent stuff, apparently.

Still, I wish they had just re-cast Jor-El, which would have allowed the flexibility to have any dialogue they wanted in this film, and to allow further possibilities for flashbacks, hologram scenes, dream sequences and hallucinations etc in future films. Also, to better establish SR's world as it's own separate (though similar) continuity and to eliminate the incongruity of re-casting all the actors but one.

I agree with you 100% on the recasting of Jor-El. It would have allowed more flexability with the movie, rather then using deleted scenes from Superman II.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The issue isn't whether Donner gave permission to Singer to use the clip of Brando.

But, when your saying he's STEALING from another person....yes, yes it is a major issue.

The point is that it's not Singer's clip to begin with.

However...it's not Donner's, either. It's WB's. That's why it was in the Warner Bros. vault......and not the Dick Donner vault.

People in the audience aren't stupid.

LOL....You give "people" too much credit.

They are going to see that scene and think of STM and the second they do--"POOF"--there goes the illusion of "Returns" being an original film.

C'mon......when it's Superman, it hardly original in many ways because they've seen this character in so many places.

Also....I've heard the footage that may be use isn't from Superman the Movie....but unused footage...so....it's scenes that nobody other than Donner and the cast may have seen before...

Routh and Singer already have their work cut out for them as those inevitable comparisons between this movie and STM have only just started. Chris Reeve's portrayal of The Man Of Steel is still very fresh in the minds of millions of people. I would think that from a dramatic point of view the last thing Singer would want would be to set himself up to compete with the original movie.

Well......those comparisons would happen no matter what. People would judge, compare and debate for everything....if it were an origin film, if it were a different universe....either way, it'll happen. I do think people will be open to it though.

 

[Monstera]

You were debating WHY I was saying that I prefer a contemporary adaptation of Superman? Or were you debating what constitutes a hack?

Both topics are highly subjective...

No they're not. Look up "hack" as a noun. It should say something about someone who reguarly produces banal or pedestrian work. Now look up banal.You'll see that Fatboy was right.

 

[NotFadeAway]

Well the final scene with Brando will go like this.....

After Superman has been stabbed, beating, thrown out of a place, etc etc.....Jor-El will return him to life much like he was going to give Reeve his power back in Superman 2 with the touch on the shoulder, giving Superman his "life force". Thtas why in one of the trailer Brando says "My son, remember me". And that will be the last we see of Jor-El.

And I know this because that was the footage that was supposed to be in Superman 2 when Reeve needs his powers back to stop Zod.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

Monstera with the assist. Thanks man

 

[Kryptonite]

"My son, remember me". And that will be the last we see of Jor-El.

That is from STM as well. It's a spliced soundclip, much like the other Jor-El clips we have heard in the trailer/TV spots

"My son remember...you have great power"

"You have great power....even though you were raised as a human being, you're not one of them"

 

[Newb]

No they're not. Look up "hack" as a noun. It should say something about someone who reguarly produces banal or pedestrian work. Now look up banal.You'll see that Fatboy was right.

so hack = banal, and banal = Drearily commonplace and often predictable. If people are disappointed with SR because it's plot twists are commonplace and predictable, due to the similarities of Donner's movie, that would make SR banal, and that would make Singer a hack.

Seeing as this is an hommage to Donner it remains to be seen how much is "predictable", but the potential is there for it to be in excess, which is a concern for some.

I liked The Usual Suspects as well, but that doesn't mean Singer gets a free ride for the rest of his career. I'm not calling him a hack, this is an if then type situation that I hope doesn't come to pass.

Monstera with the assist...

Yes, but it turned out to be for me, didn't it?

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

No, it didn't.

Wow.

But you apparently stretched properly before posting, so I'm glad you didn't pull anything trying to contort like that.

 

[Newb]

Oh you're a radio personality, this is your shtick, right? Being a smartass who confuses his opinion with fact? Cool. I bet if you started aping Howard Stern's show, stealing segment ideas and sound bites, people would think it was banal, and might even call you a hack.

What were we splitting hairs about again?

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

LOL. Nice try with the "oh, you're a radio guy" stab.

You got called out. It's fine. It's so much easier to say "Okay, I f**ked up, my bad" then to do all this pretzel bending bulls**t to preserve some sort of internet machismo or whatever.

it's a SEQUEL. That you haven't seen. You keep ignoring that the context of some of these reapparances is due to the fact this is basically A SEQUEL. The mere fact they're popping back up doesn't make him a hack. If he uses them poorly, then he's being unimaginative. But again--hacks don't have passion. Hacks are fueled by the money, and that's it. They don't care what they crank out. Singer definitely cares. That ALONE divorces him from hack status. I'm not giving him a pass, man, I share the same concerns that maybe he'll delve into the cutesy side one time too often (there's a whole THREAD about this, by the way) but it doesn't make him a f**king hack, dude. You bending into strange geometric shapes just to maintain some semblance of mental superiority on this is making you look like a goddamn jackass.

Oh, and if I aped Stern's show, stole segments and sound bites, I'd probably be SUCCESSFUL in radio. But I don't, and that's why I'm on at nights. Trust me, Radio is the WRONG business to use as an example of anti-hackwork.

Your example, and your analogy, suck. I'm not confusing opinion with fact anywhere in here. But thanks for listening to the show, seriously. I do appreciate it.

 

[Newb]

LOL. Nice try with the "oh, you're a radio guy" stab.

You got called out. It's fine. It's so much easier to say "Okay, I f**ked up, my bad" then to do all this pretzel bending bulls**t to preserve some sort of internet machismo or whatever.

it's a SEQUEL. That you haven't seen. You keep ignoring that the context of some of these reapparances is due to the fact this is basically A SEQUEL. The mere fact they're popping back up doesn't make him a hack. If he uses them poorly, then he's being unimaginative. But again--hacks don't have passion. Hacks are fueled by the money, and that's it. They don't care what they crank out. Singer definitely cares. That ALONE divorces him from hack status. I'm not giving him a pass, man, I share the same concerns that maybe he'll delve into the cutesy side one time too often (there's a whole THREAD about this, by the way) but it doesn't make him a f**king hack, dude. You bending into strange geometric shapes just to maintain some semblance of mental superiority on this is making you look like a goddamn jackass.

Oh, and if I aped Stern's show, stole segments and sound bites, I'd probably be SUCCESSFUL in radio. But I don't, and that's why I'm on at nights. Trust me, Radio is the WRONG business to use as an example of anti-hackwork.

Your example, and your analogy, suck. I'm not confusing opinion with fact anywhere in here. But thanks for listening to the show, seriously. I do appreciate it.

I'll respond in order of bold.
1) I have never claimed that Singer is a hack, nor that his SR will be a banal piece of work. I used IF liberally for a reason.
2) Mental superiority? I was just providing the basis for my rationale. Hack's produce banal work. Banal work is obvious, predictable. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. An artist's "passion" doesn't absolve them of this, IF it's banal it's banal. Is SR banal? I'll let you know in July.
3) I didn't listen to the show, I just clicked the link. I wouldn't listen to your show out of principle now. Then I saw your name in the title, and noticed your description is professional smartass. I wasn't making a stab so much as pointing out the obvious.

Look you obviously have some sort of animosity about anyone questioning Singer's movie, your intolerance of other people's opinions was rather startling at first, but I get it now. You're Fatboy, and you have a rep to carve out as a professional smart ass, maybe amuse some posters and boost your radio audience. Good luck with that!

Let's pick this up again in July.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

Look you obviously have some sort of animosity about anyone questioning Singer's movie,

You're an assumptive sonofa*****, aintcha? Is this "obvious animosity" linked to my "mistaking opinion as fact?" too? Are you even REALLY arguing with me or are you trotting our typical messageboard tropes to use when trying to score points in an argument you're flopping around in?

If your whole argument can be boiled down to "I used the word IF a lot so that absolves me of not having a f**kin clue what I'm talking about" then you might wanna drop that argument, just a suggestion

I'm not intolerant of other's opinions. Tolerance isn't even a factor here. But I admire how slyly you keep introducing crap out of thin air on me and sneaking it into your argument to marginalize what I'm saying. Cutesy You're definitely no hack. Although the character motivation you've written for me is pretty flimsy. Because the best way to "carve out a rep" is to post on internet messageboards about Superman Movies. you're completely right.

 

[NotFadeAway]

That is from STM as well. It's a spliced soundclip, much like the other Jor-El clips we have heard in the trailer/TV spots

"My son remember...you have great power"

"You have great power....even though you were raised as a human being, you're not one of them"

He said the great power line in the Superman The Movie....

But never said " my son, remember me ". Those will be Jor-El's last words to his son. Kinda tear jereker material actaully, if done right.

 

[Newb]

...Because the best way to "carve out a rep" is to post on internet messageboards about Superman Movies. you're completely right.

Oh so you're aganda free? Sorry if the link to your radio show and your aformentioned title contradicts you. I never claimed this was the best way to carve out a rep, but it's clearly your intention. Oh now there's a shock, you putting words in my mouth.

Twist one up and relax Oregon son. I'll mail you some of BC's finest.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

You should probably save that for yourself, buddy. Might help with the creativity.

And my title and the link don't CONTRADICT me in anyway. I have a show. It'd be nice if people visited it, but it's not my AGENDA. I didn't get a show and go "Hey, I should start visiting messageboards to drum up interest in my show." I've been visiting messageboards for god-knows-how-long. Long before I ever lucked into a radio job. So while my "intention" may be so "clear" to you I don't see it myself, and guess what: I'm actually me, so I actually KNOW what the f**k I'm talking about regarding my intention. Although had you put a big "IF" in your assumption, I guess you would have been absolved of your mistake again

I'm not putting words in your mouth at all. And even if I was, that's nowhere near as bad as ascribing entire personalities and motivations to me based out of nothing but the hot methane escaping your buttcheeks. I'm not intolerant of opinions, I'm not easily angered by people questioning the movie, I'm not an attention hog looking to carve out a rep with my agenda, I'm not confusing opinion with fact--none of those things happened in this thread. Just because you SAY they did doesn't make it so.

 

[Newb]

...I'm not an attention hog looking to carve out a rep with my agenda...

And yet you named yourself after your radio personality, titled yourself as a professional smart ass, and have a link to your website in your sig. The evidence contradicts your statement, don't feel bad that I don't accept you at face value. What do you care right, I mean you don't need to convince me of anything, do you?

 

[The Kid]

brando..


footage...

yeah...

should be sweeeeet.

 

[Newb]

brando..


footage...

yeah...

Tag, I'm out!

I think it's fitting that a dead guy play a ghost in the machine. Same sort of appeal the Crow has for me.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

And yet you named yourself after your radio personality

LOL. The name PRECEDES THE RADIO JOB. I already f**kin told you that. Me posting on messageboards precedes landing a gig. That's my nickname. It's used in real life. I didn't pick it, it was given to me about a decade ago. You're not taking me at face value because it would mean you "lost" somehow. It doesn't. The "evidence" is bulls**t. Hell, the fact you had to shoehorn my job into the argument, forcibly, in the first place says more about YOU than it does my "agenda." Of which there is NONE aside from "TALKING ABOUT THE SUPERMAN MOVIE."

oooooh. Scary agenda.

Anything further and you can PM me because your half-assed referendum on me and why I'm posting isn't really the point of this thread. That and you're wrong. I understand the need to undermine me as a person because actually sticking to the thread wasn't going so well for you, but if you want to continue that, PM me.

On topic: I agree with you--I think if there was going to be a problem with Brando being "Brought back from the dead" the fact he's essentially playing a ghost makes it seem almost oddly appropriate. But I also thought recasting would be a good choice--problem there is that if you're going with Donner's old Fortress, the ghostly face that shows up in it sorta has to come with it, right? I can see that being the reasoning, even if I don't totally agree with it.

 

[NotFadeAway]

Now, on to Brando......He will give Superman the abiltity to save Lois in the third act by using the scenes meant for Reeve in the FOS during Superman 2. What else really needs to be said. And he will answer questions for Lex. Dumb move by using Brando by the way, that restricts what they can do with Jor-El.

 

[Kryptonite]

He said the great power line in the Superman The Movie....

But never said " my son, remember me ". Those will be Jor-El's last words to his son. Kinda tear jereker material actaully, if done right.

I know, but in STM he said "Remember me, my son" as he put Kal-El into the rocket.

And from listening to both clips I think they just spliced the soundbite and reversed it to "My son, remember me"

I don't think that Singer would give away ANYTHING in the teaser/trailer/TV spot regarding Brando...he's saving it all for the movie.

 

[Dew k. Mosi]

I've cleaned the flaming out of this thread. If any of it continues, I will put that poster on probation. Discuss Jor-El and Brando and not each other's personal issues.

 

[DvilDog]

Well the final scene with Brando will go like this.....

After Superman has been stabbed, beating, thrown out of a place, etc etc.....Jor-El will return him to life much like he was going to give Reeve his power back in Superman 2 with the touch on the shoulder, giving Superman his "life force". Thtas why in one of the trailer Brando says "My son, remember me". And that will be the last we see of Jor-El.

And I know this because that was the footage that was supposed to be in Superman 2 when Reeve needs his powers back to stop Zod.

Read the book you will see thats not what happens

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

Yeah, isn't almost all the Brando dialog spoken to Luthor in this film?