The Burton films, post-Batman Begins

[Two-Face]

I agree with ChrisBaleBatman.

 

[The Chairman]

Ya know...for me, it kinda odd. I admanetly admit that Batman Begins is the best thing since sliced bread. I feel like Begins is the IT film of comics and Batman...un-toppable, only the sequel can surpass it.

Yes....I feel that way.

But....I can actually enjoy the Burton film evenmoreso. They're fun to watch, especially BATMAN. Tons of excellent quotes....and just fun to watch. Never get tired of those two film.....they're not as good as Begins.....but they're still damn good films in their own right. While the Schumacher series....well......I choose to ignore those.

The Burton films are more fun IMO.

 

[Catman]

It's not a case of being correct or incorrect. Batman and Returns are Burton's Batman, Begins is Nolan's, just as Dark Knight and Year One are Miller's, and so on. All anyone can make is their own version of something, be it comic or movie or any art form, because you can only see through your own eyes.

Yeah, but he asked what you felt was the truest version. They are both correct. Its just that each capture a different era.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Ya know...for me, it kinda odd. I admanetly admit that Batman Begins is the best thing since sliced bread. I feel like Begins is the IT film of comics and Batman...un-toppable, only the sequel can surpass it.

Yes....I feel that way.

But....I can actually enjoy the Burton film evenmoreso. They're fun to watch, especially BATMAN. Tons of excellent quotes....and just fun to watch. Never get tired of those two film.....they're not as good as Begins.....but they're still damn good films in their own right. While the Schumacher series....well......I choose to ignore those.

Oh I think you can enjoy all the films, that's what movies are there for. Even the Schumacher films are a good laugh

 

[General_Grievous]

Ya know...for me, it kinda odd. I admanetly admit that Batman Begins is the best thing since sliced bread. I feel like Begins is the IT film of comics and Batman...un-toppable, only the sequel can surpass it.

Yes....I feel that way.

But....I can actually enjoy the Burton film evenmoreso. They're fun to watch, especially BATMAN. Tons of excellent quotes....and just fun to watch. Never get tired of those two film.....they're not as good as Begins.....but they're still damn good films in their own right. While the Schumacher series....well......I choose to ignore those.

Agreed on all counts. Begins seems to be the film that most fans would have imagined, or liked to have seen on screen, and is the overall greatest portrayal.

Burton's work is just fun and non-sequitir, I suppose. In my mind, those films have entered the category of being good filler material - like the brilliant Batman:TAS. They can be enjoyed as entertaining segments in the career of Batman but are seperate from each other, but still as valid.

Begins is the jewel on top of the Batman crown, but the Burton films are still very likeable bits of "gold".

And thanks for your comments, Ludacris, it means a lot coming from a "big hitter" on these boards.

(I very inaccurately judge people by their post count, the longer they have been here and the more posts they have made allows me to assess them and get what they are about)

 

[Mr. Socko]

I still love Burton's Batman films.

I view them all as seperate pieces of work.

-Burton's Batman
-Schumacher's Batman
-Comics
-TAS

Now Nolan's Batman

 

[Sandman138]

Burton's Batman movies move me much more than Begins. Granted, my main problem with Begins is what I felt to be a lackluster script, but still there are other things that put Burton's movies on top. Visually, I find Burton's movies more compelling. I'm a fan of German Expressionism anyways, but I think that the style fits Batman; he becomes a creature of the night preying on the wicked. His enterance in the '89 film will always be the cinematic pinnicale of Batman in my eyes.

I also like Keaton's performance more than Bale's. I felt that Bale pretty much mailed in a performance that was just a combination of other roles he's already played. A little American Psycho here, a little Equilibrium there; I never really got the sense that he was making the character his own. On the other hand, Keaton's neurotic and self-doubting Wayne who finds his purpose and resolve when he's Batman really resonates with me. He couldn't protect his parents, so he's lost faith in himself and can only put faith in the monsterous persona he's created (which brought up some great themes when the Penguin made him doubt the strength of the mask he wore, that exchange at the end of Returns when Penguin spits "You're just jealous because I'm a geniune freak, and you have to wear a mask." and Batman agrees with him is one of my favorite Batman moments ever). That seemed like a far more accurate portrayal of the motivations behind Batman than "becoming an uncorouptable symbol".

Burton's Batman movies just felt like they were about something. They had strong themes, Batman was explored well through his relation to the the freaks that he fought, and Batman grew through the film. Begins focused on Bruce/Batman so much that he became an island and I got bored with all of his exposition, it had a lot of seemingly "deep" one liners that I found rather shallow, and it just didn't have that creepy air that I love about the character. But Goyer's not writing the sequels so hopefully they will improve, I thought the overall concept of Begins had potential, but the execution didn't work for me. I'm looking foward to where Nolan takes it.

 

[Batman333]

I personally enjoy Tim Burton's versions. I like unusal casting and taking actors that can really act and placing them in a character like what he did with Keaton.

 

[General_Grievous]

Thanks for all the opinions, it seems that the consensus is that their can be a balance between all films - they are not in competition and can be enjoyed for their own merits.

The Burton films will always have a place in our hearts.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

Burton's Batman movies just felt like they were about something. They had strong themes, Batman was explored well through his relation to the the freaks that he fought, and Batman grew through the film. Begins focused on Bruce/Batman so much that he became an island and I got bored with all of his exposition, it had a lot of seemingly "deep" one liners that I found rather shallow, and it just didn't have that creepy air that I love about the character. But Goyer's not writing the sequels so hopefully they will improve, I thought the overall concept of Begins had potential, but the execution didn't work for me. I'm looking foward to where Nolan takes it.

I actually agree with you here. Begins had a lot of lines that were represented as supposed to be deep, but they felt like the work of a screenwriter trying to insert meaning into his script. "Why do we fall, Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up." "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me." etc, etc. The worst examples in my mind are Liam Neeson, in his neverending monologues about embracing your fears or whatever, and Katie Holmes, when she's lecturing Bruce about the nature of justice. Seriously, who talks like that? It kind of took me out of a film that's often praised for its "realism". The theme of fear was good, but it felt like they were just hitting you over the head with it repeatedly.

In the end, I think that while Batman Begins does a better job of portraying Batman (who was grossly underexplored in the previous films compared to his villains), the Burton films are more atmospheric. Both the Burton and the Nolan versions have their merits. But I liked Tim Burton's expressionist approach to the character. Batman is, after all, a comic book character, and so I thought that his exaggerated, slightly surreal take on it perfectly fit with the source material.

 

[El Payaso]

I actually agree with you here. Begins had a lot of lines that were represented as supposed to be deep, but they felt like the work of a screenwriter trying to insert meaning into his script. "Why do we fall, Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up." "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me." etc, etc. The worst examples in my mind are Liam Neeson, in his neverending monologues about embracing your fears or whatever, and Katie Holmes, when she's lecturing Bruce about the nature of justice. Seriously, who talks like that? It kind of took me out of a film that's often praised for its "realism". The theme of fear was good, but it felt like they were just hitting you over the head with it repeatedly.

In the end, I think that while Batman Begins does a better job of portraying Batman (who was grossly underexplored in the previous films compared to his villains), the Burton films are more atmospheric. Both the Burton and the Nolan versions have their merits. But I liked Tim Burton's expressionist approach to the character. Batman is, after all, a comic book character, and so I thought that his exaggerated, slightly surreal take on it perfectly fit with the source material.

I agree, specially on the cheesey 'morals'.
With Goyer and Holmes out of the sequel, BB2 should be much better.

 

[theMan-Bat]

I agree, specially on the cheesey 'morals'.
With Goyer and Holmes out of the sequel, BB2 should be much better.

Hmm, we will see. It's going to be interesting to see Nolan's Joker, Lachy Hulme or whoever it will be.
Will he out Joker Jack? No way.
If he doesn't have green hair, blood red lips and wear purple then he wont be the Joker to me at all.

 

[Palpadious]

Hmm, we will see. It's going to be interesting to see Nolan's Joker, Lachy Hulme or whoever it will be.
Will he out Joker Jack? No way.
If he doesn't have green hair, blood red lips and wear purple then he wont be the Joker to me at all.

Amen, the Joker has to look like that. Batman Begins is the better movie, but they lack the magic of the Burton movies. It saved the cinematic Batman from Shumacker, but I will always like Burton's movies. Keaton will always be Batman

 

[General_Grievous]

I think and hope that the Joker in the Begins sequel will take the look further than that in Burton's Batman.

Nolan knows full well that not only has the Joker been established on film before, but he was portrayed by a fan-favourite actor, and so all eyes will be on his treatment of the character in comparison to Nicholson's performance.

I want to see a leaner, more wiry and younger Joker, someone who you can't judge, you can never tell where he's going to move to, as opposed to the more cool, gangster don-style approach that Nicholson took.

This said, the Joker needs to show evidence of his brilliant intellect, which I felt Nicholson did really well.

"And so, as my surgeon once told me: If you gotta go, go with a smile!"

 

[The Chairman]

I am so looking forward to Nolan's Joker, and seeing a different take on it. However, Jack's performance will most likely always be my favorite. I personally feel it's one of the single best casting choices in film history. He absolutely ruled the part.

 

[General_Grievous]

He certainly had the right level of charisma for the part and, as Tim Burton feared, could have been TOO perfect for the role. But he did a stand-up job.

I can't wait to see what Nolan does, whether he will opt for the more fantastical sides of the Joker's character and use some of that flamboyance, or just make him a more silent and cold killer.

The Joker is a great villain because he can use both of these traits, often laughing WHILST killing someone.

And I really want to see the Joker in a trench coat and with a hat.

 

[The Chairman]

I'd prefer to see both sides shown, but I've always liked his fantastical side more.

 

[El Payaso]

I am so looking forward to Nolan's Joker, and seeing a different take on it. However, Jack's performance will most likely always be my favorite. I personally feel it's one of the single best casting choices in film history. He absolutely ruled the part.

And how!

Anthological role is this.

 

[captain_jimbo]

I love Batman Begins, but personally I love Batman 1989 and Batman Returns even more. They will always be my favourite adaptations, Keaton was the best, the villains were great and the suit and Batmobile were perfect.

 

[General_Grievous]

I love Batman Begins, but personally I love Batman 1989 and Batman Returns even more. They will always be my favourite adaptations, Keaton was the best, the villains were great and the suit and Batmobile were perfect.

And I love your avatar.

 

[Mr. Socko]

And I really want to see the Joker in a trench coat and with a hat.


As do I, there was only one scene with it in Batman '89 but I still loved it. But looking at Begins, I doubt Batman 2's Joker will be better then Jack because you can tell Nolan and team are really putting 95% of the effort into Batman. You saw how lame Scarecrow was, he only wore a business suit with a potato sack on his head and I've said it a million times but here's once more, Crane was not even in Batman Begins for 10 minutes if you count up all of his screen time. He was only a pathetic pawn. Lets hope Nolan's Joker is a bit different. And he must have the facial Joker features, I don't entirely care about the chin and nose being vey long but red lips, green hair, and pale skin is an absolute must. It's essential, he's also got to be flamboyant, every version of the Joker has been or has failed(ex. "The Batman" cartoon). Joker can wear his tux in the movie but he can't wear it throughout the entire movie or it'll be quite silly and pointless. Joker is not a dark persona type character who hides in the shadows and is apart of the night. The day time is like show time for the Joker. Everyone is around and'll see him, attention is what he's all about. He's the complete opposite of Batman.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Hmm, we will see. It's going to be interesting to see Nolan's Joker, Lachy Hulme or whoever it will be.
Will he out Joker Jack? No way.
If he doesn't have green hair, blood red lips and wear purple then he wont be the Joker to me at all.

Exactly, that IS The Joker. Thats a pretty cool pic, wish it was in better quality.

 

[Evil Dead 13]

Danny Elfman, Tim Burton, Michael Keaton, and Jack Nicholson are some of my favorite artists. So, I'm more than a little biased.

Tim did what he does with all of his movies--he takes the material, and makes it his own. That's not to say that other directors don't do the same, but Tim's movies tend to stand out a bit more--I mean, you can watch a movie for five minutes, and know whether or not he directed it.

To me, watching a Tim Burton movie, is like seeing things in color for the first time. I mean, it's a black-and-white world most of the time, and then when a Tim movie comes out, it's suddenly sensory over-load. And I think that's what he did for Batman: he took an iconic figure, and gave his perception of it. And, it's a perception I greatly appreciate.

I don't mind that he took liberties with the characters, because they were liberties taken within reason. He didn't so much change anything, as added his own version. And sometimes that ends up making things even better--a new way to look at something old.

(Mind you, of course, sometimes this theory doesn't work--henceforth the two Batman movies I don't acknowledge. And I acknowledge Tim's Batman movies and Batman Begins. So. Yeah.)

 

[El Payaso]

Tim did what he does with all of his movies--he takes the material, and makes it his own. That's not to say that other directors don't do the same, but Tim's movies tend to stand out a bit more--I mean, you can watch a movie for five minutes, and know whether or not he directed it.

That's called 'having a style'.

But let's not forget that there have been no director that hasn't taken liberties wioth Batman.

 

[Mr. Socko]

The Adam West director don't get no repsect