BvS The BvS Rumor/Speculation Discussion Thread! - Part 2

[Guts]

Superman the movie would have been better if Superman didn't reverse time.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Superman the movie would have been better if Superman didn't reverse time.

Yeah I agree! That was stupid IMO. If they had left it that way it would've tied in with the arc about how he simply cannot save everybody no matter how hard he tries and he has to deal with it.

If they hadn't done that it would've been a PERFECT film. I mean it's still my favorite Superhero film of all time but that was a huge narrative flaw.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Actually the Donner film did it in a much better fashion. The conversation he has with his dad about why he shouldn't be proud of his powers or why he wants to champion the weak and serve humanity is beautifully written. And he realizes no matter what he cannot save everybody but it gives him a tenacity that is unsurpassed. I highly recommend you watch the first Superman film.

And who were you before?

 

[RF20Lennon]

And who were you before?

Mmmm?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You don't like the helicopter sequence? That to me screams the very definition of Superman. And the earthquake sequences obviously.

That's what lacked in MOS for me tbh. No sense of heroism. No triumph where the public sees him as the savior.

But... We see him in MOS being heroic no less than in STM. He does save people, and the world. As a kid, as a drifter, he saves Lois and of course the implication of the gravity beam scene and Jenny trapped is he saved people even a half a world away, if not the whole planet.

The Don.er film, the first film I ever saw in theaters, is more the romantic/fairy tale side of Superman presented in the manner of a big budget film of it's day. MOS is the sci fi Hercules side of Superman presented in the blockbuster style of today. It's fine that in 1978 that you write it that everyone just gets on board with the Titan in human form being revealed to exist among us but for today that probably wouldn't work.

I would also say, remember, the ending in 1978 was a re-write, though I don't have a problem with it. It was an adaptation of Silver Age Superman remember. That was very much in line with that conception of the character. And in a version he doesn't turn back time... Lois would stay dead. I certainly don't want to see that.

 

[RF20Lennon]

But... We see him in MOS being heroic no less than in STM. He does save people, and the world. As a kid, as a drifter, he saves Lois and of course the implication of the gravity beam scene and Jenny trapped is he saved people even a half a world away, if not the whole planet.

The Don.er film, the first film I ever saw in theaters, is more the romantic/fairy tale side of Superman presented in the manner of a big budget film of it's day. MOS is the sci fi Hercules side of Superman presented in the blockbuster style of today. It's fine that in 1978 that you write it that everyone just gets on board with the Titan in human form being revealed to exist among us but for today that probably wouldn't work.

I would also say, remember, the ending in 1978 was a re-write, though I don't have a problem with it. It was an adaptation of Silver Age Superman remember. That was very much in line with that conception of the character. And in a version he doesn't turn back time... Lois would stay dead. I certainly don't want to see that.

Oh yeah he does save people no doubt! But it's never seen, witnessed and applauded by the public. There is no sense of triumph and there isn't much character study. That helicopter scene in 78' was perfect in every sense of the word.

The public sees him crashing through buildings and making noise but not the messiah figure of hope he's meant to be. There is no character thread that you can really truly appreciate. It's all action and no motivation. I mean in all honesty it's because of Goyer's sloppy writing but still!

And yeah I agree. I say remove the time travel but don't have Lois die there

 

[matt47]

You don't like the helicopter sequence? That to me screams the very definition of Superman. And the earthquake sequences obviously.

That's what lacked in MOS for me tbh. No sense of heroism. No triumph where the public sees him as the savior.

Those scenes were very golden age for me, a little too cheesy.
See, that's what I said previously, MoS was really my introduction to Superman. And I have to disagree dude. No sense of heroism? Did you not see the scene where he destroys the world engine and Jenny even says, "He saved us"?? Or when the military put their guns down when Superman walks out after "defeating" Faora and Nam-Ek and Hardy says, "This man is not our enemy".

 

[Black Narcissus]

Anyone still have the old 4chan story/plot from a year or two ago?

 

[Black Narcissus]

Oh yeah he does save people no doubt! But it's never seen, witnessed and applauded by the public. There is no sense of triumph and there isn't much character study. That helicopter scene in 78' was perfect in every sense of the word.

The public sees him crashing through buildings and making noise but not the messiah figure of hope he's meant to be. There is no character thread that you can really truly appreciate. It's all action and no motivation. I mean in all honesty it's because of Goyer's sloppy writing but still!

And yeah I agree. I say remove the time travel but don't have Lois die there

So all you want is a scene of ppl cheering?

 

[RF20Lennon]

So all you want is a scene of ppl cheering?

Basically a scene where you see Superman being accepted by the public as their savior. Him doing genuinely great things for humanity and it can be small things. Like when Christopher Reeve picks up that cat and gives it to a girl, it's so silly that such a powerful god would stop for such a trivial non-issue but it just shows his concern and well being for humanity. It's the emotion and the motivation that is required. Plus a scene with people cheering never hurts

 

[I Am The Knight]

Basically a scene where you see Superman being accepted by the public as their savior.

No thanks. I'm tired of the Super-saviour crap.

I wouldn't mind a small scene where we see people cheering because Superman saved them though.

 

[Black Narcissus]

No thanks. I'm tired of the Super-saviour crap.

I wouldn't mind a small scene where we see people cheering because Superman saved them though.

The BvS trailer seems to show Super Saviour mode on tho. I would be just like, ''kill all the cats in the world, but get rid of your alien friends first''. Lawd.

I will always do find it fascinating that some folks just straight up talk about how he didn't save anybody in MOS etc.

 

[matt47]

Anyone still have the old 4chan story/plot from a year or two ago?

This one?
http://www.mediafire.com/view/uoysl7plftw7lm3/The_World's_Finest.pdf

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Hmmm i like the way the dceu is handling it because obviously we see Superman who is praised(statue likely built in his honor), but in a realistic sense of the world, society should very well be leary of god like being who could wipe out civilization. There's going to be appreciation for superman, but those voices wont be heard over the world who fears him.

I understand the want to see the small moments of kindness and care, I'd like the scene from "all star" where the girl is about jump to be brought to life. But we shouldn't NEED, something that small to understand superman loves humanity.

 

[Black Narcissus]

This one?
http://www.mediafire.com/view/uoysl7plftw7lm3/The_World's_Finest.pdf

Nah, I was talking about a guy who claimed was in the edit room. I remember he said there was a scene of DIana getting in her car and a ''brotha'' was there. I laughed so hard at that, but it's in the trailer.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Oh yeah he does save people no doubt! But it's never seen, witnessed and applauded by the public. There is no sense of triumph and there isn't much character study. That helicopter scene in 78' was perfect in every sense of the word.

The public sees him crashing through buildings and making noise but not the messiah figure of hope he's meant to be. There is no character thread that you can really truly appreciate. It's all action and no motivation. I mean in all honesty it's because of Goyer's sloppy writing but still!

And yeah I agree. I say remove the time travel but don't have Lois die there

For you. For myself it all worked like gangbuster each of my six times seeing it in theaters. And I am a Superman fan that isn't someone that likes something just cuz it's SUPERMAN. I hated LOIS AND CLARK and was disappointed in STAS and SMALLVILLE.

MOS was the Superman movie I didn't even know I wanted. It's NOT what I would have done, or would have had the testicular fortitude to do if I were in charge. All I wanted was an updated Donner formula, music too, and a physical baddie to showcase Supe's awesome power to rope in the DBZ generation.

For me, it worked that he wasn't immediately hailed as a savior. After all... Was Jesus immediately accepted by everyone around him? Sure, that messiah had followers but the story of his widespread acceptance didn't take place in a day. Otherwise that crucifixion don't happen.

The triumphs and tragedies in MOS are about Clark and how he reacts anyway. What were his struggles and quest. It's like with the ending... It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about him killing Zod... It matters what Superman thinks about him killing Zod.


The idea of Superman is usually a totally upbeat one, no argument, but there have been quite a few stories in comics over the years and there are even bits in the Reeve films, that point to less pure uplift, and I think it's fine to tell a more complex and more nuanced super hero story with the Man of Steel as a character. I think he's flexible enough a creation to be done in many ways and not break. If anything this world needs more fictional heroes that present morality, tragedy, and triumph in more shades than black and white and wrapped up in a bow of certainty. Real growth as we travel through life is ever so perfect. Would that more heroic fiction in the States at least, mirrored this. As I said before, STM was the fairy tale version of Superman from nearly 40 years ago... And it is a glorious fairy tale. But Superman has always changed with the times. From scrappy New Deal styled social crusader to agent of order and the status qou, to galactic hero and beyond. MOS is just another link in this chain for me.

 

[matt47]

Nah, I was talking about a guy who claimed was in the edit room. I remember he said there was a scene of DIana getting in her car and a ''brotha'' was there. I laughed so hard at that, but it's in the trailer.

Sayyy waaaaaaaat? Never heard of that one. I want it now too!

 

[Black Narcissus]

I do believe there should have been at least one more scene of him saving civilians tho, but that's a minor complain for me. Goyer and Zack just didn't offer a chance for this Superman to get a breather when Zod and co attacks.

 

[RF20Lennon]

No thanks. I'm tired of the Super-saviour crap.

I wouldn't mind a small scene where we see people cheering because Superman saved them though.

Yeah and I'm tired of batman being a vigilante.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Sayyy waaaaaaaat? Never heard of that one. I want it now too!

Yeah, he gave tons of info but that part stood out to me the most cause it was just so goddamn funny to me.

 

[matt47]

I do believe there should have been at least one more scene of him saving civilians tho, but that's a minor complain for me. Goyer and Zack just didn't offer a chance for this Superman to get a breather when Zod and co attacks.

Yeah, I guess people needed him saving people in the suit? Because he saved those oil rig guys and that was our damn introduction to the character yet people seem to forget that..

 

[moviefreak]

Basically a scene where you see Superman being accepted by the public as their savior. Him doing genuinely great things for humanity and it can be small things. Like when Christopher Reeve picks up that cat and gives it to a girl, it's so silly that such a powerful god would stop for such a trivial non-issue but it just shows his concern and well being for humanity. It's the emotion and the motivation that is required. Plus a scene with people cheering never hurts

What you're asking for is more repetitive stuff. Or more likely projecting what you think about the character onto the film-makers' obviously different interpretation of the same character.

I saw Superman ('78) so many time from the first opening night and onward, and all the Donner/Salkind Superman/Supergirl films --they were products of that time period and horribly outdated. With regards to Superman '78, the first 45 minutes is a masterpiece of cinema experience while the Metropolis scenes were all played as a form of slapstick --that was the intention of the film-maker.

And that's the stuffs I do not want any film-makers to revisit.

 

[matt47]

Yeah, he gave tons of info but that part stood out to me the most cause it was just so goddamn funny to me.

So, was it an actual script leak? Or was it some guy in a reddit sub forum listening specific scenes?

 

[Black Narcissus]

So, was it an actual script leak? Or was it some guy in a reddit sub forum listening specific scenes?

He was just posting in a thread. He claimed the bad guy was metallo.

 

[matt47]

Interesting...