The Clinton Thread

[Marx]

He didn't say *every* small town in America. He said alot of towns in the midwest, which isn't a stretch from the truth.

Do you live in the Midwest? I do. Maybe that's where we see something different.

 

[WorthyStevens]

I live in Pennsylvania so I've seen some of these towns that Obama's talked about.

 

[Marx]

I live in Pennsylvania so I've seen some of these towns that Obama's talked about.

But would you agree that his statement was a vast generalization that isn't accurate? True...there are places that may "cling," but he went beyond that.

 

[WorthyStevens]

I don't think he did. The only thing he did wrong was not explain himself fully.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I'm completely beyond that at this point, and am approaching this as if he is the nominee. Even if Obama survives the primary and makes it through the convention, he will deal with considerable backlash from independent and Republican voters who have been on the fence in crucial states such as Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan, where voters certainly enjoy their guns and religion, and also feel illegal immigration is a serious problem which isn't only confined to "bitterness" and "voter antipathy." The Democratic Primary does not reflect how this will play out in the general election.

And yet, one of the Democratic Party's biggest voices is the reason why he'll have some of the difficulty in the GE. Hillary has wrecked the entire party's chances at winning by treating Obama as if he were a Republican enemy. She has done all the dirty work--providing all the pettiness, Muslim-rumor-winking, Somalian garb pix and sound bites for McCain & Co. to have a field day. And her arrogant "entitlement" attitude has done the exact opposite of uniting the party--which again benefits the Republicans.

If the Democratic party fails in November, it will be its own fault...they destroyed themselves from the inside out.

 

[Marx]

And yet, one of the Democratic Party's biggest voices is the reason why he'll have some of the difficulty in the GE. Hillary has wrecked the entire party's chances at winning by treating Obama as if he were a Republican enemy. She has done all the dirty work--providing all the pettiness, Muslim-rumor-winking, Somalian garb pix and sound bites for McCain & Co. to have a field day. And her arrogant "entitlement" attitude has done the exact opposite of uniting the party--which again benefits the Republicans.

If the Democratic party fails in November, it will be its own fault...they destroyed themselves from the inside out.

Do you honestly believe that McCain and the RSM wouldn't have brought all of this up at some point anyway? Come on, Lightning. Of course they would have! Hillary or no Hillary. I might add that Obama now seems to have that same arrogant "coronation" frame of mind that you are knocking Hillary for. He hasn't won yet, but he is acting as though he's already the president.

 

[Matt]

And yet, one of the Democratic Party's biggest voices is the reason why he'll have some of the difficulty in the GE. Hillary has wrecked the entire party's chances at winning by treating Obama as if he were a Republican enemy. She has done all the dirty work--providing all the pettiness, Muslim-rumor-winking, Somalian garb pix and sound bites for McCain & Co. to have a field day. And her arrogant "entitlement" attitude has done the exact opposite of uniting the party--which again benefits the Republicans.

If the Democratic party fails in November, it will be its own fault...they destroyed themselves from the inside out.

So 50 % of the Democrat party should've just laid down and allowed Obama to be crowned? Yeah, thats Democratic.

And don't play the entire "Well Clinton was the one who made it dirty," because we both know Obama played just as dirty. It is an election. Clearly there is a split within the party. No one ought to lay down. If this goes to the Convention, it is the will of the people, which is what America is all about.

 

[Marx]

So 50 % of the Democrat party should've just laid down and allowed Obama to be crowned? Yeah, thats Democratic.

And don't play the entire "Well Clinton was the one who made it dirty," because we both know Obama played just as dirty. It is an election. Clearly there is a split within the party. No one ought to lay down. If this goes to the Convention, it is the will of the people, which is what America is all about.

Exactly. The "mighty" Obama has played just as dirty. And trying to tell half of the Democratic party to just lie down and give up doesn't sound very Democratic to me either. Whether you all want to admit it or not, this race is not over. Not yet.

 

[WorthyStevens]

Exactly. The "mighty" Obama has played just as dirty. And trying to tell half of the Democratic party to just lie down and give up doesn't sound very Democratic to me either. Whether you all want to admit it or not, this race is not over. Not yet.

Not really.

Basically 70% of Hillary's campaign has been about attacking Obama. Obama's made some remarks about McCain and Clinton, but not nearly to the same extent that Hillary and Bill have.

 

[Marx]

Not really.

Basically 70% of Hillary's campaign has been about attacking Obama. Obama's made some remarks about McCain and Clinton, but not nearly to the same extent that Hillary and Bill have.

Because Obama is so much "above it all" right? That's just not accurate Worthy.

 

[Tron5000]

Not really.

Basically 70% of Hillary's campaign has been about attacking Obama. Obama's made some remarks about McCain and Clinton, but not nearly to the same extent that Hillary and Bill have.

70% of all statistics can be made to say anything. 50% of the time.

 

[The Senator]

Check out these stats. People in lower income states attend church more, and tend to be hunting and fishing states.


http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pRkQYR9Agq0jNw_Sc_8FkAw&gid=2

But Pennsylvania isn't a lower-income state, so how does that justify Obama's remarks?

 

[The Senator]

Point taken, now lets focus on this fact. Wouldn't you agree that states with lower median incomes have higher church attendance, and ten to be hunting and fishing states yes or no?

Why does it matter which life style folks lead if the live in lower-income states? Obama did not say "lower income voters like to fish and hunt!" He said they are bitter and cling to guns and religion and show antipathy to those who are different from them. That's a far cry from saying "if you live in Mississippi, you love to fish!"

 

[The Senator]

Why is clinging to a gun or religon bad? People are acting like Obama said they cling to satanism?

Because the way Barry-O said it, it came off as though he was criticizing the lifestyles these people lead, as if they shouldn't be living that way, as if all that will change once he becomes president...

 

[Marx]

Because the way Barry-as if they shouldn't be living that way, as if all that will change once he becomes president.O said it, it came off as though he was criticizing the lifestyles these people lead, ..

You mean it won't Jman? Everything won't change if Obama wins? We won't be dancing around singing campfire songs and holding hands? Now I'm disappointed.

 

[souvlaki]

Because the way Barry-O said it, it came off as though he was criticizing the lifestyles these people lead, as if they shouldn't be living that way, as if all that will change once he becomes president...

Wait a minute... let's back up a second here. Weren't you saying not even two days ago that this was being blown way out of proportion? That you actually agreed with what he said to a certain extant? You confuse me sometimes, Jman.

 

[souvlaki]

An interesting thing to note is that Clinton has gained a 16 point lead in Indiana over the weekend

Two polls today have Obama up by 6 and 4 in Indiana. That is sort of like the Pennsylvania poll a couple days ago that had Obama down by 20, and then suddenly more polls came out and it turned out there was no change (6 to 8 point Clinton lead). I really am doubting this will have much immediate effect on the primaries. I don't get the feeling this is really catching on with the public like Rev. Wright or Bosnia did. Noone seems to care no matter how much the media keeps putting it back in the news.

 

[Matt]

It is hard to determine the accuracy of polls. Different polls can show hugely different results. It is important to remember, at the end of the day, polls are small samples of large populations. At the end of the day, the only poll that matters is the one on election day.

On a side note, I saw Bill speak today. Gotta admit, after all these years, he is still a hell of a public speaker. He hasn't swayed me to vote for Hillary, but it was still great to see a former President of this country and shake his hand.

 

[The Senator]

Two polls today have Obama up by 6 and 4 in Indiana. That is sort of like the Pennsylvania poll a couple days ago that had Obama down by 20, and then suddenly more polls came out and it turned out there was no change (6 to 8 point Clinton lead). I really am doubting this will have much immediate effect on the primaries. I don't get the feeling this is really catching on with the public like Rev. Wright or Bosnia did. Noone seems to care no matter how much the media keeps putting it back in the news.

Yeah, but polls also had Obama up that much in Massachusetts and California... while some polls showed Clinton with a strong double-digit lead...

Also, I don't think this will affect the Democratic Primary at all, but it will affect independent, blue-collar voters in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania during the general election. John McCain won't let these comments go unnoticed, especially since the demographics Obama targeted make up a good part of those three swing states...

 

[The Senator]

Wait a minute... let's back up a second here. Weren't you saying not even two days ago that this was being blown way out of proportion? That you actually agreed with what he said to a certain extant? You confuse me sometimes, Jman.

Yeah, I did say that. But that doesn't mean it won't have an affect on him. There is such a thing as having an opinion and looking at a situation objectively...

 

[Malice]

Would it be safe to say that Penn is Clintons last hope? If she does not win by at least a 7% margin, its over for her...

 

[Marx]

Would it be safe to say that Penn is Clintons last hope? If she does not win by at least a 7% margin, its over for her...

Every state since Super Tuesday has been billed as "Hillary's last hope!"

 

[Malice]

Every state since Super Tuesday has been billed as "Hillary's last hope!"

Well it comes to numbers now...she simply cant win if she looses..
Or so I understand....
Before they are speaking from a momentum standpoint..
Now its pretty much pure mathematics...

 

[Marx]

Well it comes to numbers now...she simply cant win if she looses..
Or so I understand....
Before they are speaking from a momentum standpoint..
Now its pretty much pure mathematics...

While that may be true Malice, I'm still betting that this will only end at the convention. I would be very surprised otherwise.

 

[The Senator]

She won't lose Pennsylvania... she'll probably end up with an Ohio-sized lead... and if that happens, I don't think she'll be out before the convention. There's no way Obama can get the 2025 delegates needed to clinch the nomination, and she'll do everything she can to prevent him from making it to that magic number.