Comics The Clone Saga: The good old days

[JJJ's Ulcer]

My theory: making a deal with the devil inadvertently severed Peter's ties with the spider-totem.



Just like Norman, the Goblin serum revived him shortly after death.



It was rebuilt.



You know that was part of the deal, right? She made a miraculous turnaround courtesy of Mephisto.

You're making **** up to get yourself out of an illogical argument. "The Goblin serum revived Harry"... Right. Harry never even died in this reality obviously. He's not some reborn Green Goblin. He's just Harry Osborn.

Oh and the house was rebuilt? That must be why it looks exactly the same as it did before it was destroyed. Stop trying to fill in the blanks on Joe Q's behalf and admit this story is the mother of all continuity abominations, explaining absolutely nothing.

 

[Blader5489]

You're making **** up to get yourself out of an illogical argument. "The Goblin serum revived Harry"... Right. Harry never even died in this reality obviously. He's not some reborn Green Goblin. He's just Harry Osborn.

Oh and the house was rebuilt? That must be why it looks exactly the same as it did before it was destroyed. Stop trying to fill in the blanks on Joe Q's behalf and admit this story is the mother of all continuity abominations, explaining absolutely nothing.

Your way or the highway, got it.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

This isn't a case of "my way or the highway." This is a case of me asking a legitimate question ("if it's just a mindwipe, how do you explain all the story changes that have nothing to do with memory?") and you not having an answer, so having to resort to making silly stuff up.

 

[Blader5489]

This isn't a case of "my way or the highway." This is a case of me asking a legitimate question ("if it's just a mindwipe, how do you explain all the story changes that have nothing to do with memory?") and you not having an answer, so having to resort to making silly stuff up.

I was just giving my theory as to why things were the way they are. I never said Pete's identity being erased from public memory had to do with Harry's resurrection and the like; there is no relation (IMO) between the mindwipe and the other results from the deal. The guy was just asking questions and I was giving my answers to them. But now that I know the rules, I'll run them by you next time.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Actually, the Goblin serum that Harry took was different from the one that Norman used.

While Norman's let him live, Harry's killed him.

 

[Themanofbat]

You're forgetting that Marketing forced the story to be dragged out for too long... But at least the clones didn't make deals with the devil...

Marketing had nothing to do with it... The Clone Saga was supposed to last 6 months with Ben Reilley taking over the role of Spider-Man as the real Peter Parker, with the Peter that we knew being a clone, and moving to Portland with a pregnant MJ and powerless.

But the fans revolted to sucha radical change, and the indecisiveness of what to do is what led to a 6 month story being dragged on for 30 months and fans that never came back.

And the Norman ressurection/being responsible for all of Peter's crap in his life ranks right up there with OMD in my opinion.

 

[Blader5489]

Marketing had nothing to do with it...

Actually that's not true. Marketing had a lot to do with the Clone Saga's length, most notably with the Scarlet Spider and Kaine spin-offs. Marketing influence is also the reason why the "Return of Spider-Man" arc was so drawn out.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

They way I heard it, Ben was supposed to take over for Pete, cause Pete "dies" in Amazing 400.

Then sometime down the line Pete would come back, and Ben would have died.

They always were going to switch Ben and Pete, and then back again.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Here is the back-story and insiders look at the Clone Saga:

http://www.newcomicreviews.com/GHM/specials/LifeOfReilly/

 

[Infinity9999x]

Everything still happened. The only part of history that was actually changed was the wedding. Something happened on the big day, so Peter and MJ never married and only remained a boyfriend/girlfriend couple for the past 20 years (which has only been a few years Marvel time). And consequently, baby May was erased from existence. But those two--the marriage and the baby--are the only parts of Spidey's history that have been erased.

Yeah...except for Harry being...you know...DEAD. Peter's bio-web shooters...and the confidence of any writer in the Marvel editorial staff, seeing as how there stories can now "magically" be retconned out of existence.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Marketing had nothing to do with it... The Clone Saga was supposed to last 6 months with Ben Reilley taking over the role of Spider-Man as the real Peter Parker, with the Peter that we knew being a clone, and moving to Portland with a pregnant MJ and powerless.

But the fans revolted to sucha radical change, and the indecisiveness of what to do is what led to a 6 month story being dragged on for 30 months and fans that never came back.

And the Norman ressurection/being responsible for all of Peter's crap in his life ranks right up there with OMD in my opinion.

It's really too bad the clone saga was dragged out like that. Had they left it a 6 month arc and simply left Pete as Spidey and made Ben a character that popped up to help Pete every now and then, I don't think it would have been bad at all.

And also, I think having Doc Ock be the "big baddie" behind the clone saga would have worked better then Norman. It could have been revealed that the Doc Ock killed was actually a clone and not the real McCoy.

 

[shogunrua]

I have to say that personnaly, even with that double page and al the explanations of those who can find a sens in all of this, I still think that this Peter seems "out of place" in the Marvel Universe, I think I'm waiting for him to have interactions with people outside the Spider-Man world in order to give some consistency to all of this, and even to see this Peter in other books, because right now the only other 616 book where he is it's "New Avengers" but he's still spotting his black suit, so it's pre-OMD...

 

[Themanofbat]

It's really too bad the clone saga was dragged out like that. Had they left it a 6 month arc and simply left Pete as Spidey and made Ben a character that popped up to help Pete every now and then, I don't think it would have been bad at all.

And also, I think having Doc Ock be the "big baddie" behind the clone saga would have worked better then Norman. It could have been revealed that the Doc Ock killed was actually a clone and not the real McCoy.

Unfortunately, after the 6 month long storyline, Pete was supposed to be powerless and "retire" to Portland with a very pregnant Mary Jane and live happily ever after...

And Ben was supposed to be the "new" Spider-Man... and he was supposed to be the real Peter Parker.

And very similarly to what's happening now, fans felt cheated that the last 20 years of Spider-Man stories weren't those of the "real" Spider-Man.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Unfortunately, after the 6 month long storyline, Pete was supposed to be powerless and "retire" to Portland with a very pregnant Mary Jane and live happily ever after...

And Ben was supposed to be the "new" Spider-Man... and he was supposed to be the real Peter Parker.

And very similarly to what's happening now, fans felt cheated that the last 20 years of Spider-Man stories weren't those of the "real" Spider-Man.

Oh I know what the purpose of the clone saga was, and while many around here dislike it with a passion (and for good reason) I thought that at the beginning it was written very well, and had Marvel not wanted to use it as a way to retcon Pete out of the Picture, that it could have been a very good story.

Whereas, if you change the ending of OMD, and Peter decides to refuse Mephisto, it's still a pretty poor story. Temped by the Devil stories are old and overused (especially since Mephisto tried to tempt the Silver Surfer about 50 times). What made OMD really bad was that Peter actually accepted, and the fact that Mephisto only wanted Pete's marriage instead of his soul.

So, basically I think the Clone Saga had better parts, and MUCH more potential to be a good, or even very good story, while even if you take out the bad parts of OMD, it's still a mediocre story, and that's being generous.

 

[UltimateJustin]

Surely more interesting than this non-sense. I've never read the clone saga but I've encountered tons of fans of Ben Reiley that have me interested in it. I doubt in ten years anyone will want to read the "Peter lamenting over Aunt May's health again/fretting/making a deal with the devil" saga that everyone is still complaining about. THEY'VE OUT DONE THEMSELVES.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Ben Riley is and always will be a legend.

By the by in Maximum Clonage Peter made a deal with The Jackal, which was meant to metophorically be him making a deal with the devil. I guess it's true what they say, great cluster****s do think alike.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

More proof that Ben Reilly is and always will be a greater SuperHero and TRUE Peter Parker.

Pete made a deal with Venom, Jackal, Norman, and Mephisto.
Ben kicked the crap outta Venom, Jackal, Norman (before Revalations) and he'd do the same to Mephisto for even asking.

 

[UltimateJustin]

More proof that Ben Reilly is and always will be a greater SuperHero and TRUE Peter Parker.

Pete made a deal with Venom, Jackal, Norman, and Mephisto.
Ben kicked the crap outta Venom, Jackal, Norman (before Revalations) and he'd do the same to Mephisto for even asking.

He seems violent.

 

[kguillou]

You know, one thing about the clone saga always bothered me. How was it that Peter was so easily convinced that he was a clone? I mean, if someone comes up to me and says " Your a clone, you have been your whole life", even with blood tests and stuff, I know it cant be true because i have concrete memories of being a child, my parents taking care of me etc. Plus I'm sure there's alot of physical evidence that proves that as well. The same with Peter, the Jackal tried to convince Peter that he's been a clone ever since ASM 121, which is when Peter was around 18-19 years old right? There's no way someone would be able to convince me that I hadn't even existed for the first 18-19 years of my life, even with evidence. I dunno, i just never quite understood how Peter was so easily fooled into believing that he wasnt real.

 

[The Joker]

And also, I think having Doc Ock be the "big baddie" behind the clone saga would have worked better then Norman. It could have been revealed that the Doc Ock killed was actually a clone and not the real McCoy.

I agree. That would have been great

 

[Blader5489]

More proof that Ben Reilly is and always will be a greater SuperHero and TRUE Peter Parker.

Pete made a deal with Venom, Jackal, Norman, and Mephisto.
Ben kicked the crap outta Venom, Jackal, Norman (before Revalations) and he'd do the same to Mephisto for even asking.

Pete has survived every fight he's been in
Ben hasn't

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

but thanks to the Mephisto retcon Ben MIGHT be alive... No dead Harry, no Norman plotting to screw Peter's every move, thus no clone saga... no clone saga, no dead Ben Reilly in the end of it...

but didn't Peter die during The Other? so he didn't survive them all (He was Phoenix downed by t3h 5p1d3r g0d)

 

[kguillou]

He didnt survive Morlun...

 

[Blader5489]

He didnt survive Morlun...

I thought it was the disease + fatigue that killed him? Morlun was the one who bit the dust (literally) during the battle.

 

[kguillou]

Morlun beat down spidey really really bad, i thought he eventually succumbed to the pain and died.