The Curious Case of Spider-Man & Hulk Rights (Or Keep Hope Alive That the Rights Will Revert)

[Originalavenger]

Still can’t figure out why with Sony in free fall regarding Spider-Man Disney didn’t make a more aggressive move to get at least way more control or full rights back!! They just wound up recesitating spidey for sony

 

[Originalavenger]

But if they wrested control of spidey from Sony don’t know if they would’ve been all over n on the 20th century fox deal!!

 

[metaphysician]

Still can’t figure out why with Sony in free fall regarding Spider-Man Disney didn’t make a more aggressive move to get at least way more control or full rights back!! They just wound up recesitating spidey for sony

Probably because, even on a bad day, Spider-man matters more to Sony than it does to Disney. Disney has tons of Marvel characters, many of whom are arguably just as popular and marketable as Spider-man these days. Sony, by contrast, *needs* Spider-man, because he's their only reliably popular franchise and has been for years despite their best efforts. It doesn't matter what Disney offers, if they give up Spider-man they might as well just sell Columbia Pictures and get out of the movie business entirely.

 

[Frodo]

Probably because, even on a bad day, Spider-man matters more to Sony than it does to Disney. Disney has tons of Marvel characters, many of whom are arguably just as popular and marketable as Spider-man these days. Sony, by contrast, *needs* Spider-man, because he's their only reliably popular franchise and has been for years despite their best efforts. It doesn't matter what Disney offers, if they give up Spider-man they might as well just sell Columbia Pictures and get out of the movie business entirely.

This.
Unless Sony Pictures totally tanks, and the rights go up for grabs, they have zero incentive to give them up.

Certainly after the Box Office totals of No Way Home, they aren't gonna release those rights .

There's just to much money on the table , and the character has been far too profitable over the past 20 years for them to walk away from Spiderman.

So , as much as fans may want Sony to give up the Spiderman rights to Disney, I don't see it happening.

Sony is more likely to maintain their partnership with Disney for the foreseeable future, as opposed to totally giving up their cash cow.

 

[Originalavenger]

Well my comment was more of Sony had no clue what to do I do understand that spidey is their cash cow…but I was leaning on Disney offering up a large amount of cash for spidey rights back seeing that Sony happily accepted marvel help!! Also don’t forget this was several years before 20th century was put on market so Disney had oodles of cash!! Oh well I can still dream

 

[Venom 1988]

Well my comment was more of Sony had no clue what to do I do understand that spidey is their cash cow…but I was leaning on Disney offering up a large amount of cash for spidey rights back seeing that Sony happily accepted marvel help!! Also don’t forget this was several years before 20th century was put on market so Disney had oodles of cash!! Oh well I can still dream

Co-producing a movie with Disney and selling the rights back are 2 very different things. It doesn't matter how much trouble Sony was in back then, they were never going to sell the rights back to Disney.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Still can’t figure out why with Sony in free fall regarding Spider-Man Disney didn’t make a more aggressive move to get at least way more control or full rights back!! They just wound up recesitating spidey for sony

The reason Disney made the deal with Sony is simple: Disney/Marvel got the merch rights back to Spider-Man years ago to extend the deal during the Garfield era. Sony is going to keep making Spider-Man films. But Sony was making ones people hated so much, merch sales of Spider-Man as a whole were dropping. Look up graphs on Spider-Man merch profit in the 2010s. So if Sony is going to keep dumping out films to keep the rights, Disney/Marvel likely wanted to ensure the movies would reinvigorate interest in the IP so merch sales would go back up. Which they did. Spider-Man sells more merch than any superhero and it isn't close. Thats why they made the deal

 

[Originalavenger]

Free m everything I read said ny wasn’t really doing anything with merchandising any!! Then Sony was n a bit of a money crunch and offered to buy back the rights I haven’t seen or read that the merchandise rights were tied into extending rights during Garfield era!! New info to me!! Cool. Just my own thought about that!! But I guess thanks all for clearing that up

 

[TheVileOne]

The reason Disney made the deal with Sony is simple: Disney/Marvel got the merch rights back to Spider-Man years ago to extend the deal during the Garfield era. Sony is going to keep making Spider-Man films. But Sony was making ones people hated so much, merch sales of Spider-Man as a whole were dropping. Look up graphs on Spider-Man merch profit in the 2010s. So if Sony is going to keep dumping out films to keep the rights, Disney/Marvel likely wanted to ensure the movies would reinvigorate interest in the IP so merch sales would go back up. Which they did. Spider-Man sells more merch than any superhero and it isn't close. Thats why they made the deal

Not all Spider-Man merch comes from the films though. We have Spider-Man games, animation, toys, etc, plenty of which are unrelated to the movies.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Not all Spider-Man merch comes from the films though. We have Spider-Man games, animation, toys, etc, plenty of which are unrelated to the movies.

Yes, but the best years of Spider-Man merch sales align with movies being popular

 

[TheVileOne]

Yes, but the best years of Spider-Man merch sales align with movies being popular

Or the 90s animated series

 

[babykhris]

I wonder with SONY making Venom and Morbius films are they now on the clock separately? Like now if SONY doesn’t use Morbius in say 7 years does it revert back to Marvel??

 

[Venom 1988]

I wonder with SONY making Venom and Morbius films are they now on the clock separately? Like now if SONY doesn’t use Morbius in say 7 years does it revert back to Marvel??

No it's all tied to Spider-Man. Make a Morbius movie? The clock for the Spider-Man license resets. Make a Venom movie? The clock for the Spider-Man license resets again. Etc...

 

[Spidey_62]

I think we Spidey fans have it good, there's no way Marvel/Disney could have made the Spider-Verse movies- they care that they have a franchise that can make them a boatload of money so they try a lot of stuff with it. Spidey's a big enough character where they could and should be explored more than Marvel Studios alone probably could hope to. You get them making Morbius but then you also get the Venom movies which stumble their way into being fun despite it all and generally pretty true-to-form Venom adaptations. I dunno.

I think the general idea of all the spinoff films they're always trying to make isn't bad, there's always potential there but they just so far tend to miss the mark mostly. The ones that have been filmed and yet-to-be-released like Madame Web and Kraven again seem interesting and weird from what we've heard so they're never the most predictable player. They could probably do more weird spinoff movies but starring the actual Spider heroes now that the Spider-Verse movies are breaking that seal in such a cool way for audiences. If they had as many crazy talented people as they do in the animation department then they'd be the top, which is kinda crazy to say- but also the disparity from things like Morbius to Across The Spider-Verse from the same studio within a two year span is just

 

[Iceman]

No it's all tied to Spider-Man. Make a Morbius movie? The clock for the Spider-Man license resets. Make a Venom movie? The clock for the Spider-Man license resets again. Etc...

Yeah, they are never letting it go voluntarily.

 

[darthcoolness3]

No it's all tied to Spider-Man. Make a Morbius movie? The clock for the Spider-Man license resets. Make a Venom movie? The clock for the Spider-Man license resets again. Etc...

technically that means the clock reset twice, since Sony is publishing an Spider-Man game for PS5, and the Spider-Verse movie

 

[Venom 1988]

technically that means the clock reset twice, since Sony is publishing an Spider-Man game for PS5, and the Spider-Verse movie

The game rights are not tied to the movie license that Sony Pictures owns . Marvel Entertainment owns that outright. The reason why the game is exclusive to Playstation is because Sony Interactive approached Marvel Entertainment about making a game exclusive for their console. When Sony Interactive talked to Insomniac about developing the game, they had the option of choosing any Marvel IP and they chose Spider-Man.

 

[Venom 1988]

I was searching for Fox's agreement with Universal on theme park rights for the Simpsons and may have bumped into the Marvel Paramount contract, which according to Marvel is pretty much the same terms as the Marvel Universal contract. And as usually happens with me when I find such things I go down the rabbit hole lol. I haven't read it like I did the Spider-Man one, but I can tell you that Marvel got MUCH smarter than they were in the 90s. It also confirms what we had figured out because of those ABC planned Hulk TV shows. The only rights that Marvel does not have is the distribution rights to the movies.

It seems to me that the distribution rights that Universal has on Hulk has an expiration date of 15 years + 3 pay TV windows. It would also help explain why Disney hasn't tried to acquire those rights since they weren't as imperative to own to kick off the MCU as the Paramount contract was. Marvel and Paramount amended the 2005 contract in 2008 which meant they had the rights to Avengers, Iron Man, Thor, Cap and sequels. Disney HAD to acquire those from Paramount. Hulk could wait, especially if there's an expiration date on the distribution rights.

Paramount extends deal with Marvel



Anyways, be warned. This may be a confusing post. I have spent the past few hours going down this rabbit hole. I may be wrong. Hell I must likely am, so anyone can check the links here and try to figure it out.

https://sec.report/Document/0001116679-06-002363/



https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933730/000111667907000580/m10k.htm



This is the amended Studio Distribution Agreement mentioned above.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933730/000111667905002681/ex10-1.htm







https://sec.report/Document/0001116679-06-000579/

I wanted to bump ADollarADay's post from a few years back about the potential for the Hulk rights to revert after 15 years. Well we've hit the 15 year mark this month and I'm not sure if this is a sign but apparently TIH is going to be on Disney+ in the US tomorrow.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I wanted to bump ADollarADay's post from a few years back about the potential for the Hulk rights to revert after 15 years. Well we've hit the 15 year mark this month and I'm not sure if this is a sign but apparently TIH is going to be on Disney+ in the US tomorrow.

I hope it does! I want that Ruffalo Hulk solo!

 

[Drunken Rider]

One way to find out is through some news reporting headlines announcing about the theatrical rights to Hulk since the 15-year mark of TIH 08 has expired based on some rumors from the street on this thread. Otherwise never say never.

 

[Iceman]

Great if there's anything more to this. Finally Hulk can have his day.

 

[samsnee]

 

[Erzengel]

If Marvel wants, I'll sit on Sony's chest as they rip Spider-Man out of them.

 

[Iceman]

World War Hulk or bust.

 

[Frodo]

Marvel ain't getting Spiderman, but if they do have Hulk, that's great news.