The Dark Knight Rises The Trailers Ruined the Dark Knight Rises' Suspense

[Deserana]

Again, you could have opted not to look at the set photos.

It's like finding your birthday presents six months before your birthday, and then complaining that the surprise was ruined.

Again, I didn't watch the videos or look at the photos.

I never saw it but unfortunately after that set video Miranda was only labelled as Talia on these boards.

I had not watched the set video

It is nothing like that as my point is the fact that I was surprised Nolan filmed it out in the open, I wasn't annoyed and then complaining about it.

At least read my previous posts before quoting me.

When people say "Oh well the general audience didn't see it" says to me that Nolan is saying "screw the fans I don't care if they see it". My POINT IS NOT that I'm annoyed that the General audience or fans saw the video and photos my point is for such a big moment and for a director like Nolan who loves secrecy why he would film it in a place for people to see.

Nolan clearly didn't want this stuff to leak so why film it in such a place!!

Is that it? Do I have to say this again? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

 

[Deserana]

Maybe it was a minor misstep to film it out in the open. The point still stands though that throughout the film, we are fed many clues that are meant to lead someone more familiar with the Batman world to start piecing it together. I don't think it was honestly meant to be this huge HOLY F moment for the fans. I mean when Batman tosses her the gun, you can already see she's wearing a completely different type of attire. It's all there in the open for the fans to pick up on, whether from looking at too many spoilers or simply paying close attention to the film.

Ah but that is different we may have been fed stuff and given hints but the whole final conformation and Talia reveal is in that scene. I could say "yeah but I guessed that when Batman said...." I wouldn't have definitely known until the reveal.

But anyway that still doesn't affect my initial point. Nolan lost his cool at a reporter for almost spoiling the reveal in a room full of press. Marion was also denying it several times in interviews that she was nothing more than Miranda.

Nolan clearly wanted it kept secret.

 

[TanneRain]

Is there a video of Nolan talking to the reporter at that press conference?

 

[Deserana]

Is there a video of Nolan talking to the reporter at that press conference?

Nah don't think so. There are quite a few articles around though.

 

[BatLobster]

Well, obviously Nolan would prefer to keep everything about his films a surprise.

I still don't think you can financially justify building an entire set of city hall simply to protect fanboys from themselves. I think if they were going to build the set in the hangars, then you might as well shoot the whole battle there. It would have been much easier in terms of controlling the set, as shooting on location can be a logistical nightmare. It really doesn't make sense to build an entire set for a few shots that are going to have to match an actual location.

As much as Nolan is protective of his scripts, he also loves shooting on location and shooting efficiently. In this case, that impulse won out over his spoiler paranoia.

 

[Deserana]

Well, obviously Nolan would prefer to keep everything about his films a surprise.

I still don't think you can financially justify building an entire set of city hall simply to protect fanboys from themselves. I think if they were going to build the set in the hangars, then you might as well shoot the whole battle there. It really doesn't make sense to build an entire set for a couple of shots that are going to have to match an actual location.

As much as Nolan is protective of his scripts, he also loves shooting on location and shooting efficiently. In this case, that impulse won out over his spoiler paranoia.

Don't need to build an entire set of City Hall. Just the stairs that is all Nolan needed maybe even a little bit of the pillars, just enough so it all fits within frame. Like I said he built the entire Batcave which was really OTT because as awesome as it looked it was barely in the film there was no reason why he couldn't build sections of it. There was probably a load of places where they could have filmed in actual cave.

I don't see how it is spoiler paranoia surely its common sense to keep the main reveal as secret as possible?

 

[Shpati]

Come to think of it, I did see the picture of

Spoiler

Tailia

on the Tumbler. Honestly, I did not think this was a spy photo. At the time, I thought it was just

Spoiler

Marion

playing around with the Tumbler in her free time because she looked to have a playful face and was dressed in very regular clothing.

That photo did not ruin anything for me. I just saw one on IMDB.

Nothing really ruined the plot twist with me, it was just what knew from Batman comics that made it predictable.

 

[TanneRain]

Nah don't think so. There are quite a few articles around though.

Yea, I've read some of the articles. It'd be cool to see a video with Nolan getting a little emotional, never have seen much of that.

 

[Frodo]

We live in a different era in terms of advertising and marketing of films , so in that sense, its very hard for a studio to keep things close to the vest. It use to be that the studios would release one trailer , maybe two , tops.

Now , there's so much competition and hype that I think they ride the filmmakers to devulge more than they would if they were given the choice. It seemed like ASM had like 8 trailers and I was kinda surprised that TDKR had 4. Indeed, even teaser trailers, which in the past could be all you got , are not considered enough.

 

[The Sage]

My friends and family, all loved the Talia twist and didn't see it coming at all. among other things. To much of the general audience (to me too but in different ways) this film was very unpredictable, surprising and suspenseful, believe me.

The movie can't help that the minority that is us obsessive fanboys – analyze, look and indulge in every detail of leaked footage, leaked information and trailers.

Personally I do it cause it's not a huge deal-breaker to me at all. Since if things are done well and to my liking, I'm often so immersed and invested in things that it – no matter how spoiled I am – still has a great impact on me. Same also with seeing the visuals and the story coming together on screen and in context.

But if things like this lessens your experience and opinion of the movie so much, I recommend staying as much in the dark as possible.

Totally agree. I've seen the movie 3 times, and in each viewing a lot of the audience was caught off guard by the Talia twist and didn't see it coming.

This.

I've seen the film with several 'uninitiated' folks, and by that I mean people who are fans of the movie series but are nowhere close to sharing our passion for the Batman character. They never saw any spy photos, didn't really know who Talia was prior to this film, and they loved every single second of the film.

Also, a normal person doesn't obsessively watch every trailer or TV spots dozens of times -- freezing, dissecting, and discussing them for a full year. Upon seeing the film, this didn't affect me much, but I can tell that it ruined the experience for many other posters here.

It definitely can. I remember when I saw Batman Begins. I had followed the movie's production so close that when I saw it, I knew just about everything that would happen, so it ruined the first viewing for me despite liking the film.

For The Dark Knight, I purposely kept my distance so I could be surprised by the film's suspense and plot, and I was. While I knew more about Dark Knight Rises, I still did my best to keep my distance. I had known about the Talia twist, but somehow had forgotten it while watching the film. So when it happened, I was like, "Oh yeah, that's right!"

Nothing wrong with stay in the dark

 

[Jim-El]

There were as many TDK trailers as TDKR. Both showed way to much. Regardless, it didn't stop box office attendence. In the end that is all they care about anyway.

 

[solidsnake86]

Don't need to build an entire set of City Hall. Just the stairs that is all Nolan needed maybe even a little bit of the pillars, just enough so it all fits within frame. Like I said he built the entire Batcave which was really OTT because as awesome as it looked it was barely in the film there was no reason why he couldn't build sections of it. There was probably a load of places where they could have filmed in actual cave.

I don't see how it is spoiler paranoia surely its common sense to keep the main reveal as secret as possible?

The batcave doesnt exist, the staircase does. Where exactly would they find a cave where they could actually alter the premises because most are landmarks, not to be touched. They were already filming at city hall. For a 15 sec scene it doesnt justify spending a hundred thousand plus, not to mention matching up the dead cops and mercs on the staircase all in the name of keeping it a secret. Maybe they thought no one was filming when they shot that scene. Once again, people were hiding in building filming the movie.

Now your basically suggesting how nolan should shoot his films.

The main secret got out regardless of that clip. Badass digest pretty much spoiled the film before they started filming. Talia had been suggested multiple times.

My original quoted post was to dark b, you keep on telling people to read your posts but we've read it. You didnt watch the videos and didnt spoil yourself. You did a lot more to avoid spoilers than most of the people on this board. At this point your arguing nothing. You think Nolan should have made a set, we've told you reasons why he may not have.

 

[Deserana]

The batcave doesnt exist, the staircase does. Where exactly would they find a cave where they could actually alter the premises because most are landmarks, not to be touched. They were already filming at city hall. For a 15 sec scene it doesnt justify spending a hundred thousand plus, not to mention matching up the dead cops and mercs on the staircase all in the name of keeping it a secret. Maybe they thought no one was filming when they shot that scene. Once again, people were hiding in building filming the movie.

Yeah I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure they knew people were filming. Biggest film of the year filming a huge battle scene? Of course they knew people would film. Even if they didn't surely you don't take chances...

I have no idea where they would find a Batcave but I'm sure they'd find somewhere. But still for such a big reveal why wouldn't he just replicate the stairs? And it doesn't exactly take much to replicate dead bodies on the floor. As long as they film it from a decent angle no one would have known the difference. As long as Nolan feels it would serve the story as well as keep it secret he'd do it. He took his entire crew and some of the cast and went to India and all we saw were a couple of quick shots as well as one helicopter shot. So why not go to the effort of creating a few stairs from City Hall and then keep the reveal under wraps?

Now your basically suggesting how nolan should shoot his films.

The main secret got out regardless of that clip. Badass digest pretty much spoiled the film before they started filming. Talia had been suggested multiple times.

Now you are exaggerating what I am saying.

The main secret was merely suggested and speculated. And would have likely continued to be just that until the release. The spy vid confirmed it. It may not have confirmed Talia but it confirmed Miranda was not Miranda however with what she was wearing in the scene it wasn't exactly hard to put 2 and 2 together.

My original quoted post was to dark b, you keep on telling people to read your posts but we've read it. You didnt watch the videos and didnt spoil yourself. You did a lot more to avoid spoilers than most of the people on this board. At this point your arguing nothing. You think Nolan should have made a set, we've told you reasons why he may not have.

I keep on telling people to read my posts because people keep telling me I shouldn't have watched the videos when I didn't. I was also accused of criticising that I think Nolan shouldn't shoot on location which wasn't what I was saying. And the reasons people are providing makes no sense with Nolan's obsession with secrecy he pulled out all the stops for TDKR so why suddenly film the main reveal in the open? Sure he may be on the location but he likely had more than enough money at his disposal and plus we know how Nolan goes out of his way for stuff that may have mere seconds of screen time. India's stuff resulted to probably just under a minute.

 

[Ecuanime]

A lot of the main action scenes were on the trailers, but I'm glad they didn't show any glimpse of Bane breaking Batman, and Catwoman's escape at the bar.

I think for TDKR, so much marketing focus was on The Joker, so a lot of the Batman action sequences was not shown in the trailer

 

[danoyse]

Again, I didn't watch the videos or look at the photos.


It is nothing like that as my point is the fact that I was surprised Nolan filmed it out in the open, I wasn't annoyed and then complaining about it.

At least read my previous posts before quoting me.

When people say "Oh well the general audience didn't see it" says to me that Nolan is saying "screw the fans I don't care if they see it". My POINT IS NOT that I'm annoyed that the General audience or fans saw the video and photos my point is for such a big moment and for a director like Nolan who loves secrecy why he would film it in a place for people to see.

Nolan clearly didn't want this stuff to leak so why film it in such a place!!

Is that it? Do I have to say this again? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

I did read your post. You were complaining that the scene was filmed outside, and that Nolan shouldn't do that because fans can see them.

My point was that fans have the option not to follow the production so closely that they end up spoiling the movie for themselves. Plenty of us did, and don't feel like the movie was spoiled.

Could you tone down the hysteria a notch? I feel like we're pulling you down off of the ledge in every thread?

 

[Deserana]

I did read your post. You were complaining that the scene was filmed outside, and that Nolan shouldn't do that because fans can see them.

No that is not my point. Maybe the "hysteria" is from the fact that posters are missing the point of what I am saying. I have said that I didn't care whether fans or general audience may have seen the video. My point was that I found it strange that Nolan would choose to film it in the open for a director so concerned about things leaking and taking extra steps to prevent such a thing. That was my point.

Nolan also lost his cool at the press for revealing almost revealing the reveal so it is clear he didn't want the scene leaked so I can't help but ask - why film it for all to see in the first place?

Again, I hugely admire Nolan's filming techniques! Like I said he went all the way to India and India's filming resulted in roughly a minute screentime. But. He also had two soundstages so why not take caution and create stairs then film that shot? What is wrong with me suggesting that?

My point was that fans have the option not to follow the production so closely that they end up spoiling the movie for themselves. Plenty of us did, and don't feel like the movie was spoiled.

Could you tone down the hysteria a notch? I feel like we're pulling you down off of the ledge in every thread?

Good for them and I also felt the same but that doesn't affect the point I am making.

And please? Every thread? It was this one and slightly the "unintentionally funny" thread. The reason I may seem "hysteric" (which really is an exaggeration) was because if anything I thought I was pointing out the obvious.

 

[The Guard]

Its pretty simple. If Nolan wanted the twist intact, he probably should have made sure his set was tighter.

And frankly, even before we "knew", pretty much everyone knew "Miranda" was quite possibly Talia.

I honestly think, even if you didn't know, the Talia twist shouldn't really catch you off guard if you're a halfway intelligent person and thinking about the film as you watch it.

The second the film has a character say "Ra's Al Ghul's daughter" during the flashback, any savvy audience member could realize "Hmm, we've only been introduced to two female characters, and one of them is Catwoman, so either Ra's Al Ghul's daughter is Catwoman, or its Miranda and she's going to betray Bruce".

People get caught off guard because they aren't paying attention and thinking about the film half the time. And getting caught off guard that there's a twist when there's really nothing to suggest there will be a twist throughout most of the film isn't all that big a deal. Anyone can throw a twist into a film. It's not like Bruce was searching for a traitor, or some betrayer inside Wayne Enterprises, or that there was a reference to a shadowy Al Ghul working inside Gotham, etc. There was no reason to believe there WOULD be this twist...unless you understand screenwriting conventions, of course people were caught off guard.

 

[Deserana]

Its pretty simple. If Nolan wanted the twist intact, he probably should have made sure his set was tighter.

And frankly, even before we "knew", pretty much everyone knew "Miranda" was quite possibly Talia.

But that is all it ever was just possibly it was never confirmed until that point in the film.

It's hard/almost impossible to keep such an open set such as City Hall tighter. People were recording from windows in apartments. In a soundstage Nolan has complete say about who is on the set.

Like I said before the fact Nolan lost his cool at the reporter and that he had Marion deny in interviews that she ever filmed such a scene or that she was more than Miranda is a sign that he wanted the character/scene left a secret.

Also they never say "Ra's Al Ghul's daughter" they only say "the child of Ra's Al Ghul". However, Nolan does give away that it is not Bane very early on in the prison scenes but you have to pay close attention to timelines in order to see that. The people who I was with in all of my showings didn't see that and they thought it was Bane until the review (other than someone wo was alos following production closely).

 

[Mysteryman]

I remember when the first trailer was released People thought there was not enough story detail .

 

[XMEGA]

This.

I've seen the film with several 'uninitiated' folks, and by that I mean people who are fans of the movie series but are nowhere close to sharing our passion for the Batman character. They never saw any spy photos, didn't really know who Talia was prior to this film, and they loved every single second of the film.

Also, a normal person doesn't obsessively watch every trailer or TV spots dozens of times -- freezing, dissecting, and discussing them for a full year. Upon seeing the film, this didn't affect me much, but I can tell that it ruined the experience for many other posters here.

I can third this the twist was good and I'm so glad I didn't spoil this movie for myself being a batman fan. this movie is a little over the general audience to fully enjoy. Its so much fan service if you don't know background of robin, talia, bane the movie is over your head yes you will get the betrayal but it was shocking knowing it was talia even though hints were all throughout the movie its just CH film making that kept me guessing throwing me off with ra's having a son which he never had.

 

[The Sage]

Its pretty simple. If Nolan wanted the twist intact, he probably should have made sure his set was tighter.

And frankly, even before we "knew", pretty much everyone knew "Miranda" was quite possibly Talia.

I honestly think, even if you didn't know, the Talia twist shouldn't really catch you off guard if you're a halfway intelligent person and thinking about the film as you watch it.

The second the film has a character say "Ra's Al Ghul's daughter" during the flashback, any savvy audience member could realize "Hmm, we've only been introduced to two female characters, and one of them is Catwoman, so either Ra's Al Ghul's daughter is Catwoman, or its Miranda and she's going to betray Bruce".

People get caught off guard because they aren't paying attention and thinking about the film half the time. And getting caught off guard that there's a twist when there's really nothing to suggest there will be a twist throughout most of the film isn't all that big a deal. Anyone can throw a twist into a film. It's not like Bruce was searching for a traitor, or some betrayer inside Wayne Enterprises, or that there was a reference to a shadowy Al Ghul working inside Gotham, etc. There was no reason to believe there WOULD be this twist...unless you understand screenwriting conventions, of course people were caught off guard.

Actually they said the "child of Ra's Al Ghul", not what the gender was.

 

[danoyse]

Actually they said the "child of Ra's Al Ghul", not what the gender was.

Yep. Not once did anyone say "daughter". It was "child". And Bruce would always answer "Bane" whenever someone referenced the "child of Ra's Al Ghul".

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

For all this talk of Cotillard's character she's barely visible in the trailers! I still enjoyed the moment even though I knew it was coming. It did have surprise for me, like that was the moment she said her name (Talia) in the film, and she was the possessor of the detonator, Bane looking sad, etc.

Though trailers and TV spots did give a whole lot away. If you had a no spoilers policy...you probably should have avoided them. And of course, even the set photos and videos are a given to avoid.

 

[honsq90]

But that is all it ever was just possibly it was never confirmed until that point in the film.

It's hard/almost impossible to keep such an open set such as City Hall tighter. People were recording from windows in apartments. In a soundstage Nolan has complete say about who is on the set.

Like I said before the fact Nolan lost his cool at the reporter and that he had Marion deny in interviews that she ever filmed such a scene or that she was more than Miranda is a sign that he wanted the character/scene left a secret.

Also they never say "Ra's Al Ghul's daughter" they only say "the child of Ra's Al Ghul". However, Nolan does give away that it is not Bane very early on in the prison scenes but you have to pay close attention to timelines in order to see that. The people who I was with in all of my showings didn't see that and they thought it was Bane until the review (other than someone wo was alos following production closely).

At least he didn't film Talia stabbing Batman with the knife out in the open yea? Cause if that was the case, I would easily agree with you.

Also, if I remember correctly, Nolan lost his cool when a reporter asked about the ending, not the reveal. "Obviously you can't ask that, you'll ruin the ending" or something like that.

Yes, he could've filmed in on a soundstage and used CGI to bring her back in, but is it really worth it when that time could be spent working on other special effects like the football stadium and the Bat?

Anyway, the people really affected by the confirmation of Talia are really those who followed the set videos and etc. Yes, you didn't see them, but the advice wasn't directed to you, it was to everyone in general.

Is it also that big of a reveal? Ra's Al Ghul appears in the film after all. If it wasn't going to be a random villain working with Bane, it was always going to be Talia.

Yes, Marion had to deny she was Talia multiple times. Some people were always going to believe she was Talia no matter what she said officially anyway. Some of us believed her and just accepted that there wouldn't be Talia. There were two female leads, one of which was already Catwoman. The fans wanted the other female to be Talia and they had their faith rewarded. After all, what good would it do if Marion confirmed she was Talia? It takes away some of the magic of the movie. And if she confirmed it, it'd be all over the news and things will escalate from there.

Marion gets nothing from confirming she was Talia especially if they had to compromise by filming her walking to the Tumbler on location.

Anyway, hopefully that was coherent enough as I'm kinda tired at the moment. Happy to discuss more later.

 

[TanneRain]

I did read your post. You were complaining that the scene was filmed outside, and that Nolan shouldn't do that because fans can see them.

My point was that fans have the option not to follow the production so closely that they end up spoiling the movie for themselves. Plenty of us did, and don't feel like the movie was spoiled.

Could you tone down the hysteria a notch? I feel like we're pulling you down off of the ledge in every thread?

Hey don't want to be that guy, but the quote in your sig is actually from Robin Browne and is usually given to Stephen King on accident. I think.