The Defenders The Defenders General Discussion Thread - Part 1

[First Avenger]

Looks like they just don't know What to do with Iron Fist.

 

[Dark Raven]

Looks like they just don't know What to do with Iron Fist.

Not just that, but they probably didn't cast well with Finn Jones. Someone else would've brought more charisma and held his own with the others. I don't know if he's Scott Buck's choice, but the Defenders seem to be carrying his baggage. Buck strikes again!

 

[marcvader]

Hearing Jon Shnepp's review of the first 4 episodes and I feel very relieved about the Defenders and Danny Rand. He loved it and thinks Rands portrayal is night and day compared to his solo show. I trust Shnepp as he was extremely critical of Iron Fist and wasn't high on the Defenders before hand.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Hearing Jon Shnepp's review of the first 4 episodes and I feel very relieved about the Defenders and Danny Rand. He loved it and thinks Rands portrayal is night and day compared to his solo show. I trust Shnepp as he was extremely critical of Iron Fist and wasn't high on the Defenders before hand.

It was interesting how he started on Movie Talk. It was back when Movie Talk was at AMC and it was when the first GOTG was announced and they brought him on to talk about it. He made the move when Collider acquired Movie Talk. He's been there ever since, hosting Collider Heroes, a new series called Comic-Book Shopping and has done Movie Talk at least twice a week. He was on Movie Talk today as a matter of fact.

 

[Iceman]

Hearing Jon Shnepp's review of the first 4 episodes and I feel very relieved about the Defenders and Danny Rand. He loved it and thinks Rands portrayal is night and day compared to his solo show. I trust Shnepp as he was extremely critical of Iron Fist and wasn't high on the Defenders before hand.

That's great to hear.

 

[TheVileOne]

I also reviewed the first half of Defenders

 

[KevTravels]

Not just that, but they probably didn't cast well with Finn Jones. Someone else would've brought more charisma and held his own with the others. I don't know if he's Scott Buck's choice, but the Defenders seem to be carrying his baggage. Buck strikes again!

i wish they'd lost who also auditioned for IF. It'd be great to compare. I figured Finn Jones only got the role due to his Game of Thrones involvement. They probably figured that;d bring some fans over.

Dude is really weak and has little range.

 

[zenith16]

Hearing Jon Shnepp's review of the first 4 episodes and I feel very relieved about the Defenders and Danny Rand. He loved it and thinks Rands portrayal is night and day compared to his solo show. I trust Shnepp as he was extremely critical of Iron Fist and wasn't high on the Defenders before hand.

Well then, the remedying is working and it was indeed the first season's production that was indeed the problem then. hopefully, season 2 of iron continue what defenders have done here, as they said they were doing with the two, To make up for season 1. He still need 's work.

But they made their chose.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

I must say, again, that I don't allow reviews to determine anything for me. (I mostly read them to get a sense of story/plot and character interaction.) But since some seem to read more into them...

Character connections are made before then, to be sure, and while I thought it might be most enjoyable seeing the clash of Matt's buttoned-up personality and Jessica's affrontive snark, there's no denying the magic of Mike Colter and Finn Jones' energetic charisma together as Luke Cage and Iron Fist coming to terms with one another. If they don't get their comic book team-up as a standalone Netflix show before this is all over with, there will be riots from Harlem to K'un L'un. Thankfully, even when it's not the central four characters interacting with each other, it's still fun to watch the ensemble mix and match from one scene to the next.

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1689129/marvels-the-defenders-review-when-netflixs-heroes-finally-team-up-its-so-worth-the-wait

The Luke Cage/Iron Fist combo is where “The Defenders” gets a lot of its early magic. Although common knowledge to the hardcore comic-book fan, but perhaps not the casual viewer, Cage and Rand are one of Marvel’s most classic, popular comic-book duos.

Although their bromance starts off rocky, they begin to let their guard down and not pulverize each other, and become an on-screen duo fueled by geeky comic-book chi. It’s a treat to watch.

You’re probably wondering how well Iron Fist fits in on this new show, because his namesake series was the first Marvel Entertainment product in some time to receive less-than-positive reviews from critics and fans. But this isn’t “Iron Fist.” It’s “The Defenders.” When Rand is teamed up with Cage, the moments feel as cool as they were intended to be — and Rand has a much better haircut this time around. (If the Netflix/gentrified Iron Fist still just wasn’t your thing, you’ll at least enjoy Cage checking Rand on his privilege.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2017/07/24/the-defenders-is-the-marvel-team-up-you-hoped-for-iron-fist-and-all/?utm_term=.438cbd860261

Perhaps the biggest surprise comes from Iron Fist. Finn Jones' Danny Rand is right where we left him at the end of his maligned series, perhaps a month or two down the road. But while Danny spent much of that show as a frustratingly irresponsible (and at times downright unlikeable) hero who didn't grasp the enormity of his responsibilities, when we meet him in The Defenders, he's haunted by what he witnessed in K'un-Lun, and truly driven to hunt down The Hand.

Danny Rand and Colleen Wing are front and center early on, and the Iron Fist story is as crucial to the main thrust of The Defenders as the holdovers from Daredevil. It makes sense, since elements of Iron Fist were seeded as far back as Daredevil Season 1, that their stories would be intertwined this way. The problem is that Iron Fist failed to fully carry over the sense of mystery and menace of The Hand that we got in Daredevil, but in The Defenders, these characters and concepts feel far more at home. They're darker, more violent, and even more richly photographed. The fight sequences are better, and Danny's personality plays well against Jessica Jones and Luke Cage, neither of whom have any time for ********. If nothing else, it's a step in the right direction for the character.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/the-defenders/266645/marvels-the-defenders-review-spoiler-free

 

[Herolee10]

A part of me still can't get over the fact that 3/4 of this group only wears and jacket and a sweater for their established looks while Daredevil is the only one with a costume. I mean Luke and Jessica I can understand but having Danny just wearing a hood and a jacket really makes Daredevil stand out like a sor3 thumb when he is next to them.

 

[pixen]

Oh my goodness. This is something people need to get over. He might get something by the end of the 8 episodes. And even if Iron Fist got a look, only half the team would have hero outfits. Based on Iron Fist, Danny hasn't done anything in his show to deserve a hero look/outfit.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Oh my goodness. This is something people need to get over. He might get something by the end of the 8 episodes. And even if Iron Fist got a look, only half the team would have hero outfits. Based on Iron Fist, Danny hasn't done anything in his show to deserve a hero look/outfit.

I don't care if he gets a costume or not but this argument doesn't hold up. Most characters wear costumes for protection, to hide their identity and/or to highlight the parts of themselves that makes them different. Really has little to do with heroism or lack thereof. If that were the case, why does Elektra or any antihero/villain wear a costume?

 

[pixen]

Elektra wore an outfit in the final episode of Daredevil to protect herself (a little more) and to hide her identity. Didn't she even ask for one?

Iron Fist's outfit offers no protection in the comics. In the Netflix show, all the foes he was going against knew he was the Iron Fist and so it made little sense to cover it up.

 

[marcvader]

So then why if he was/is the Iron Fist and we also know the K'un L'un monks of which he was one, wear distinct attire did he not once honor this title or his brethren's attire. It would've made sense and wouldn't have been out of left field. There was at least one instance in the first season, when he was tested by the Hand, that this could've happened, he was representing K'un L'un as "The" Iron Fist. We know there is an outfit the Iron Fist wears as seen by the film footage and they didn't have to make it a "superhero" suit. It could've just been the ceremonial attire an Iron Fist wears or if they didn't want to go full blown suit how about an article from that suit. He could've just worn the sash or the mask. It came down to poor writing.

 

[Dark Raven]

So then why if he was/is the Iron Fist and we also know the K'un L'un monks of which he was one where distinct attire did he not once honor this title or his brethren's attire. It would've made sense and wouldn't have been out of left field. There was at least one instance in the first season, when he was tested by the Hand, that this could've happened, he was representing K'un L'un as "The" Iron Fist. We know there is an outfit the Iron Fist wears as seen by the film footage and they didn't have to make it a "superhero" suit. It could've just been the ceremonial attire an Iron Fist wears or if they didn't want to go full blown suit how about an article from that suit. He could've just worn the sash or the mask. It came down to poor writing.

It came down to Scott Buck. Even if every opportunity to wear a costume threw itself down at his feet, Buck would still not be able to find a way to incorporate it, or would outright reject it.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Elektra wore an outfit in the final episode of Daredevil to protect herself (a little more) and to hide her identity. Didn't she even ask for one?

Iron Fist's outfit offers no protection in the comics. In the Netflix show, all the foes he was going against knew he was the Iron Fist and so it made little sense to cover it up.

Well yes, I agree with you here. I was just objecting to the idea that he has to do something heroic to deserve a costume.

 

[KevTravels]

why exactly doesn't Luke Cage wear a costume? Is it just that he's symbolic of the neighborhood in Harlem?

I get that Jessica is a PI and doesn't particularly care about that kinda thing, but she def doesn't show off her powers either.

 

[TheVileOne]

why exactly doesn't Luke Cage wear a costume? Is it just that he's symbolic of the neighborhood in Harlem?

I get that Jessica is a PI and doesn't particularly care about that kinda thing, but she def doesn't show off her powers either.

His friend Bobby Fish suggested he wear a mask. Luke is just flat out like, "No. I'm no hero."

 

[pixen]

I get the want and need for an Iron Fist costume. I really want him to get one. I just find that there weren't many spots for him to fully get to the point where he really needed one. There were a few moments where a nod could have been tossed, like a face covering ala DD proto look but Danny seemed so oblivious to keeping things super secretive that it ultimately didn't matter.

Onto some Defenders stuff... I'm making my way through the rewatch and am really enjoying most of the series. The one thing that I'm kind of worried about is how this miniseries is going to end. If they are going up against The Hand, the final battle can't just be Hand ninjas, there has to be some sort of Beast or something bigger than that, right? Something that actually seems like it could destroy NYC.

 

[TheVileOne]

Except there a lot of things that were badly executed with Iron Fist. There were many spots they didn't need in there that they did and the show meandered around for its first half.

They could've easily written in there if there was a greater need and desire to do it. There was not. Just like they fumbled the ball with that the whole reason Danny left and returned to New York for revenge. That should've been the driving force for the season. He's there to get revenge and has to learn to let go of it.

 

[Lilbaz]

I don't care if he gets a costume or not but this argument doesn't hold up. Most characters wear costumes for protection, to hide their identity and/or to highlight the parts of themselves that makes them different. Really has little to do with heroism or lack thereof. If that were the case, why does Elektra or any antihero/villain wear a costume?

Because it helps tell characters apart in comics.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Except there a lot of things that were badly executed with Iron Fist. There were many spots they didn't need in there that they did and the show meandered around for its first half.

They could've easily written in there if there was a greater need and desire to do it. There was not. Just like they fumbled the ball with that the whole reason Danny left and returned to New York for revenge. That should've been the driving force for the season. He's there to get revenge and has to learn to let go of it.

I agree a show can't excuse not having a costume solely because the story didn't call for it when they're the ones writing the story. On the other hand, a good story shouldn't have to accommodate having a costume solely for the sake of having it.

Given the framework of the show as it was, I do think there was room to have the costume when he challenged the Hand fighters and at the end when he was getting revenge. The first time because it's a traditional fight, so he wore his traditional uniform. At the end because he was truly embracing his role as the Iron Fist in this new world.

 

[Dark Raven]

Except there a lot of things that were badly executed with Iron Fist. There were many spots they didn't need in there that they did and the show meandered around for its first half.

They could've easily written in there if there was a greater need and desire to do it. There was not. Just like they fumbled the ball with that the whole reason Danny left and returned to New York for revenge. That should've been the driving force for the season. He's there to get revenge and has to learn to let go of it.

If the showrunner wants a costume, then even with the smallest of reasons or opportunities they will find a way. It was Scott Buck. Even with the biggest of reasons or opportunities falling all around him, he still wouldn't find a way. He didn't want one. He would probably dispense with the martial arts and any mysticism if he had his way. It would just be board meetings and corporate drama.

 

[javonstokess]

I think Brubaker's Iron Fist run developed the perfect reason for Danny to wear his "costume": It's ceremonial garb that ALL Iron Fists have worn since the beginning. Had that been established early on, we wouldn't be having these conversations.

Overall, I think they couldn't figure out the "hook" for the show and that's why it's WILDLY uneven. That and I don't think they quite figured out who Danny is as a character.

The costume, at least the mask, could have been used at multiple points in the series. Off the top of my head, when Danny was being chased after leaving Colleen's for the first time, when Danny and Colleen were sneaking around and ended up on the truck, during the ceremonial gauntlet, when they were in China (?) breaking into the Hand's warehouse and during the final fight sequence in the office building. All of those scenes would have been enhanced with Danny AT LEAST wearing the mask PLUS the added bonus of the fight scenes being better because a stunt man would be doing the lion's share of the work.

Saying that they couldn't find a reason for him to have it in the first season is lazy creativity/writing. Of the four Defenders, Danny's character's outlandish outfit makes the MOST sense, especially when facing fully garbed ninjas.

 

[metaphysician]

why exactly doesn't Luke Cage wear a costume? Is it just that he's symbolic of the neighborhood in Harlem?

I get that Jessica is a PI and doesn't particularly care about that kinda thing, but she def doesn't show off her powers either.

In story, its because Luke Cage doesn't really hide himself in that manner. He's about standing up, publicly, and daring people to come at him.

Out of story, its because Luke Cage stopped wearing a costume in the comics a long time ago, and his iconic image has simply shifted.