The FFINO ZONE

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, they are part of the X-Men contract. They're also characters who Marvel could presumably use from the X-Men rights alongside Taskmaster and Juggernaut. I feel like exclusive rights to the Fantastic Four, Taskmaster and The Brood, 100% of the profits from X-Men merch and shared rights to the Shi'Ar, Viper and Juggernaut is a fair trade since the X-Men weren't coming home to Marvel any time soon but clearly Fox weren't all that enthusiastic about the FF in the first place and they can easily sell them back since this film is set up to be not just a bomb but a dud.

Why on earth should Taskmaster be wrapped up with X-Men rights? Taskmaster originated as an Ant-Man and Avengers villain and has consistently appeared with them. That's like having Ultron wrapped up with X-Men just because they might have somehow crossed paths at one point.

And the Shi'Ar and Brood are a joke of a trade.

As for Viper, they already have Madame Hydra, which is another name for Viper.

And there's no real need for Juggernaut since he's more of an X-Men villain.

 

[Kanon]

Why on earth should Taskmaster be wrapped up with X-Men rights? Taskmaster originated as an Ant-Man and Avengers villain and has consistently appeared with them. That's like having Ultron wrapped up with X-Men just because they might have somehow crossed paths at one point.

And the Shi'Ar and Brood are a joke of a trade.

As for Viper, they already have Madame Hydra, which is another name for Viper.

And there's no real need for Juggernaut since he's more of an X-Men villain.

Taskmaster was a mutant, I believe. But it was retconned as some shield agent taking some serum that gave him his power. Other than the mutant thing, I believe there is no link.

The good stuff is on the FF license. Galactus, Silver Surfer, Kang.

 

[Dark Raven]

Taskmaster was a mutant, I believe. But it was retconned as some shield agent taking some serum that gave him his power. Other than the mutant thing, I believe there is no link.

The good stuff is on the FF license. Galactus, Silver Surfer, Kang.

But essentially, anyone born with powers according to the Marvel universe are mutants. But this is where it gets ridiculous.

If Spider-Man and MJ have a baby (eg MayDay Parker), then suddenly she's a mutant, so oh quick, send her over to Fox to be with the X-Men.

Isn't Namor meant to be a mutant as well? He's with Universal though.

And in the comics, in Incredible Hulk #312, wasn't it essentially established that Hulk was a mutant? His father had done so many gamma experiments that it affected the baby born to his wife, and the gamma bomb only unlocked what was under the surface all along. Even Ang Lee's movie hinted at this. So send him to Fox too. Instant X-Men character.

And don't forget Doom in the FF licence. Fox don't even know what to do with him. The only heights he'll ever reach are world famous blogger. Marvel Studios would do a much better job with him.

 

[Kanon]

But essentially, anyone born with powers according to the Marvel universe are mutants. But this is where it gets ridiculous.

If Spider-Man and MJ have a baby (eg MayDay Parker), then suddenly she's a mutant, so oh quick, send her over to Fox to be with the X-Men.

Isn't Namor meant to be a mutant as well? He's with Universal though.

And in the comics, in Incredible Hulk #312, wasn't it essentially established that Hulk was a mutant? His father had done so many gamma experiments that it affected the baby born to his wife, and the gamma bomb only unlocked what was under the surface all along. Even Ang Lee's movie hinted at this. So send him to Fox too. Instant X-Men character.

Yeah, Fox doesn't have the rights to any mutant (I hope), but to the concept of mutant and X-Men supporting characters.

Most of those would be safe anyway, Fox has the mutants as Homo superior, not the concept of mutation as a whole, by radiation, terrigen crystal, etc.

All of those and Taskmaster I think are safe out of reach. The only problem is Marvel can't use the mutant (Homo superior) origin for anyone (like Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch)

 

[Orba]

Pretty sure Taskmaster is still with Marvel, he even appeared on the poster they put out a couple of months ago that had everyone except the X-Men and Fantastic Four characters.

I think the Taskmaster rumour was that he was in with the Deadpool movie rights back in the 2000s. However it may be that the Fox X-Men rights work where Fox have the first choice on X-Men related characters, Marvel can use them if Fox don't claim them first. So it may be that the Deadpool rights expired taking all the characters back to Marvel but that once there Fox were able to claim Deadpool for themselves. So that could be why Taskmaster was supposed to be in the Deadpool film package but Marvel have him now while Fox have Deadpool. All the characters that had been thrown into that package went back to Marvel but Fox weren't able to get Taskmaster as he isn't an X-Men character.

 

[Dark Raven]

Even the whole Kang with FF rights is ridiculous, just because Rama Tut or Immortus first appeared in FF. Kang debuted in Avengers and has consistently been in the pages of the Avengers as one of their primary villains. The Kang/FF link is tenuous at best. Didn't Kang also once possess Iron Man's body or something like that during the Crossing, and Iron Lad was also shown to be some version of Kang? So maybe Iron Man should be with the FF rights too.

 

[Kelly]

Back when the first F4 movie was coming out they had a run with Kang as the villain in the Marvel Knights issues.

 

[Kanon]

Even the whole Kang with FF rights is ridiculous, just because Rama Tut or Immortus first appeared in FF. Kang debuted in Avengers and has consistently been in the pages of the Avengers as one of their primary villains. The Kang/FF link is tenuous at best. Didn't Kang also once possess Iron Man's body or something like that during the Crossing, and Iron Lad was also shown to be some version of Kang? So maybe Iron Man should be with the FF rights too.

Totally agree, but it was confirmed (by James Gunn I believe) that Kang can't be used, Fox has him

 

[Quasar]

Isn't Namor meant to be a mutant as well? He's with Universal though.

Does Universal just have the most amazing negotiators in the world or what? What, they have Hulk and Namor for life? Never have to release a movie or put one into production?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I suspect that when these rights were being divided up and defined, nobody envisioned an Avengers film - figuring all the individual characters would be with different studios. And since the FF had a space-thing going, it probably made sense to package Kang with FF.

I think a lot of us would have a lot to say if we could go back in time and whisper in the ears of the people who wrote the contracts.

 

[Dark Raven]

Does Universal just have the most amazing negotiators in the world or what? What, they have Hulk and Namor for life? Never have to release a movie or put one into production?

Universal have been having a blast of a summer at the box office. Marvel should definitely team with them to put out these films still languishing in development hell with that studio.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

From the Reborn thread:

I agree, but what really bugs me is it wouldn't have been that difficult for Fox to do it right. They should have hired a good director, gave him a reasonable budget and instructed him make a spectacular FF film that captures the wonder and scale of the original comic books.

There's no reason Fox couldn't have "out-Marveled Marvel" with an FF and Doom recognizable from the comic books and a path laid out to meet Galactus and Surfer in film 4 or 5.

And yet if the embargo means what (nearly) all of us think it means, then that will mean FOUR failed attempts at making the Fantastic Four into a quality feature film. So it's apparently not that easy. I'm sure I sound like a shill to some people but after seeing what Marvel has done with characters like Rocket Raccoon and Ant-Man and revitalizing characters like Daredevil and Hulk which were damaged goods, I really believe that they're the only ones who can save these characters from oblivion. But even if this film flops sadly Fox will just hold these film rights prisoner for another 7 years at least.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Does Universal just have the most amazing negotiators in the world or what? What, they have Hulk and Namor for life? Never have to release a movie or put one into production?

I think the deal is Marvel makes the movies but Universal distributes. But with the way Hulk underperformed I'm sure they are not in a hurry to have to split the pie on small box office receipts. So unless they renegotiate we might have to wait a bit. I know I'm disappointed that we're getting an Aquaman film before Namor but it is what it is.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Totally agree, but it was confirmed (by James Gunn I believe) that Kang can't be used, Fox has him

I consider Kang a top 3 Avengers villain so this is a crying shame. But I'm sure Willie is right. No one probably ever envisioned an Avengers film actually coming to fruition which is why the idea of those old contracts having crossover language for the FF and X-Men seems extremely far fetched to me.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Even the whole Kang with FF rights is ridiculous, just because Rama Tut or Immortus first appeared in FF. Kang debuted in Avengers and has consistently been in the pages of the Avengers as one of their primary villains. The Kang/FF link is tenuous at best. Didn't Kang also once possess Iron Man's body or something like that during the Crossing, and Iron Lad was also shown to be some version of Kang? So maybe Iron Man should be with the FF rights too.

Actually Kang and Immortus both appeared in Avengers comics FIRST. They were all kind of eventually retconned into being the same as Rama-Tut but even that happened in Avengers.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

From the Reborn thread:



And yet if the embargo means what (nearly) all of us think it means, then that will mean FOUR failed attempts at making the Fantastic Four into a quality feature film. So it's apparently not that easy. I'm sure I sound like a shill to some people but after seeing what Marvel has done with characters like Rocket Raccoon and Ant-Man and revitalizing characters like Daredevil and Hulk which were damaged goods, I really believe that they're the only ones who can save these characters from oblivion. But even if this film flops sadly Fox will just hold these film rights prisoner for another 7 years at least.

I think saying it wouldn't have been difficult may have been poor word choice on my part, but at the very least, Fox could have attempted to move in the right direction rather than the wrong direction.

Maybe it's because of my familiarity with the characters and recognition of what a good FF film needs, but I do see it as an easier task than Guardians of the Galaxy or Ant-Man. How do you make audiences take a talking raccoon seriously? How do you make audiences take a man that talks to ants seriously? How do you make those minor characters into broadly accepted films?

So I do tip my hat to Marvel for what they did with those specific properties, but I don't think FF is some mysterious property that is difficult to figure out.

Don't make it an origin story.
Don't repeat the mistakes of the Tim Story films.
Do give it a reasonable budget.
Do make it visually spectacular with cool creatures, gadgets, sets and locations.
Do give it a proven director who likes and understands the comic books.
Do make it visually similar to the comic books with blue uniforms with '4's on them.
Do find a cast that fits the characters as they've been portrayed for 50 years.
Do one of the most iconic villains in comic-book history right.

So reaching the upper echelon, might not be easy, but I believe following the guidelines I've just typed out with 30 seconds of thought would have made for a much better, much more accepted film that would have had a chance to be embraced by fans.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I consider Kang a top 3 Avengers villain so this is a crying shame.

From the point of view of: "Come on Marvel and Fox, get the deal done." it does provide more incentive for Marvel, so maybe not such a bad thing if all works out in the end.t:

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

If this film is crap and fails I really hope that it is the end of this lazy black costumes nonsense that Fox has a hard on for. I mean for ****s sake Batman is finally wearing gray and it's supposedly impossible and too cheesy or whatever ******** for the Fantastic Four to wear blue costumes? Ugh!

 

[metaphysician]

I wonder if it's time to close this thread and let the negativity flow, since negativity is the norm, and rational response in light of current events, and optimism, at this point, is the exception and probably what must be confined to a single thread

This has been rationally the case for months. Its not new.

 

[TeeKay]

If this film is crap and fails I really hope that it is the end of this lazy black costumes nonsense that Fox has a hard on for. I mean for ****s sake Batman is finally wearing gray and it's supposedly impossible and too cheesy or whatever ******** for the Fantastic Four to wear blue costumes? Ugh!

I never understood their obsession with black costumes.

 

[Brian Braddock]

If this film is crap and fails I really hope that it is the end of this lazy black costumes nonsense that Fox has a hard on for. I mean for ****s sake Batman is finally wearing gray and it's supposedly impossible and too cheesy or whatever ******** for the Fantastic Four to wear blue costumes? Ugh!

Amen.

''But what would you prefer - yellow spandex?''

"****ing YES!!!''

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I never understood their obsession with black costumes.

I absolutely hate black costumes when the character's costume wasn't originally that color. It just screams lazy and condescending film making to me.

Amen.

''But what would you prefer - yellow spandex?''

"****ing YES!!!''

Words fail to express how much I hate that cringey line. In the age of Marvel that line means absolutely nothing now, nothing.

 

[metaphysician]

Taskmaster was a mutant, I believe. But it was retconned as some shield agent taking some serum that gave him his power. Other than the mutant thing, I believe there is no link.

It was a retcon that made Taskmaster a mutant, very briefly. Originally he was no such thing. This doesn't give Taskmaster to Fox anymore than it gives them Cloak and Dagger, or Namor, or Bullseye.

 

[RAE072]

I never understood their obsession with black costumes.

It's the Matrix effect.

Studios saw how unbelievably successful that movie was, and they tried to emulate it as much as possible.

The characters in The Matrix, a sci-fi action movie, wore black leather and stuff, the characters in our sci-fi action movie should too.

They think that matters at all, like that has any effect on box office or people's enjoyment of the movie. But it doesn't.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Amen.

''But what would you prefer - yellow spandex?''

"****ing YES!!!''

Spandex is not the answer.