The Dark Knight Rises The Harvey Dent Act: what does it mean for Batman?

[DKDetective]

I think because he's about 40 years old and has been fighting crime for a decade. I believe when Bane shows up, Bruce is already physically frail, and somewhat rusty because I do think he's stopped being the Bat for a short period of time. If he were forced into retirement, simply because Bane defeated him and broke him, I don't think he would be hesitant to come back. I don't think he'd be asking Gordon "What if he doesn't exist anymore?"

I just don't feel this version of Bruce Wayne would contemplate quitting based on his inability to beat Bane in hand to hand combat, I think it's deeper than that. I feel as though he's made Gotham better, indirectly, while Dent's influence made the public believe & the authorities more inspired, allowing him to rest, and mentally, address some of the issues he's been facing since his parents death. I think he reconciles this inner turmoil before Bane starts wrecking havoc, which is why he questions the validity of continuing this mission. I believe Bruce feels Batman may not "exist anymore," because after he comes face to face with his inner demons, that rage and pain that drove him for a decade won't exist anymore.

Actually I think this will be similar to BB, where TDK himself doesn't show up for a good length of time, maybe even half the movie. And ultimately he may decide to return, not because of a personal challenge to defeat Bane, but because Gotham falls into chaos from the truth of Dent, & finally needs & deserves a hero like "The Batman"

I actually agree with most of this. I think you have misunderstood me. I do not think Bane will break a Batman who is in good shape. As you say, he has been fight crime for a decade and is beat up, tired, and in bad shape both physically and emotionally. I just think that Bane will be the feather that breaks the camel's back. I don't think the cane can be the product of chronic injuries because we have only seen Bruce use it once. There are plenty of spy photos of a Bruce who doesn't need a cane. I think it is evidence of an acute injury caused by a specific event.

I think it will more pan out like this:

Gordon and Bruce's work is nearing its completion. Bruce is finally considering retiring and is in bad shape. Bane chooses this moment to wreck havoc and take out Batman because of his weakness. Bane ambushes and defeats Bruce privately, humiliating him. The Dark Knight disappears without explanation and Bane begins his reign of terror. Because he was already in horrible shape to begin with, Bruce thinks that he can no longer be Batman. He tries to move on with his life. That is why he seems so hesitant when Gordon pleads for him to come back.

 

[Doc Samson]

I actually agree with most of this. I think you have misunderstood me. I do not think Bane will break a Batman who is in good shape. As you say, he has been fight crime for a decade and is beat up, tired, and in bad shape both physically and emotionally. I just think that Bane will be the feather that breaks the camel's back. I don't think the cane can be the product of chronic injuries because we have only seen Bruce use it once. There are plenty of spy photos of a Bruce who doesn't need a cane. I think it is evidence of an acute injury caused by a specific event.

I think it will more pan out like this:

Gordon and Bruce's work is nearing its completion. Bruce is finally considering retiring and is in bad shape. Bane chooses this moment to wreck havoc and take out Batman because of his weakness. Bane ambushes and defeats Bruce privately, humiliating him. The Dark Knight disappears without explanation and Bane begins his reign of terror. Because he was already in horrible shape to begin with, Bruce thinks that he can no longer be Batman. He tries to move on with his life. That is why he seems so hesitant when Gordon pleads for him to come back.

Well I think its either your way or mine, I definitely respect what your saying and I can see that happening as well. I'm just so excited for the trailer, probably a little more than the prologue, because I think we'll get a little more insight on which direction the story truly unfolds.

 

[DKDetective]

Well I think its either your way or mine, I definitely respect what your saying and I can see that happening as well. I'm just so excited for the trailer, probably a little more than the prologue, because I think we'll get a little more insight on which direction the story truly unfolds.

Yeah, same here, I also think your explanation as the most likely other explanation. I like it because it reminds of The Dark Knight Returns and I sway between your position and mine. It's just the Nolan Empire quote that keeps bringing back to mine. Gut feeling I guess. As always, with Nolan, we could both be completely off base. I can't wait for the trailer too. t:

 

[Dragon_316ca]

http://movies.ign.com/articles/121/1214486p1.html

IGN: Gary Oldman said the other day something about the Harvey Dent Act. Is there a "Harvey Dent Act," an actual piece of legislation, and what can you tell us about sort of the shape that Gotham is in when we pick up the story eight years later?

Nolan: Well, that's funny, I didn't read that. But there is a piece of legislation, and we are dealing with a Gotham that's moved on. In the last eight years, it has come to revere Harvey Dent in the way that Batman intended at the end of the last film.

 

[Yurka]

"Well, that's funny, I didn't read that..."


Someone will be making a visit to Oldman's home pretty soon...

 

[jacobed]

It's too late Gary is already dead.

 

[Nevincer]

"Well, that's funny, I didn't read that..."


Someone will be making a visit to Oldman's home pretty soon...

That's exactly what I was thinking reading it.

 

[The Joker]

So Harvey is the hero of Gotham even 8 years later.

Nice.

 

[Victarion]

Could be that the interviewer was trying to bait Nolan out.

 

[Godman]

YES!!!!!! hopefully this means back to stealth and ninjitsu??

 

[DKDetective]

So Harvey is the hero of Gotham even 8 years later.

Nice.

He's Thomas Wayne 2.0. His death galvanized the city into saving itself. But once again, that will not be enough. That is why I don't think Batman will die or sacrifice himself in this movie to save Gotham. Two major characters have died and their deaths while serving as inspiration for the city to save itself were in the end not enough. Batman has to have some special significance. He has to be something more.

 

[Nevincer]

So Harvey is the hero of Gotham even 8 years later.

Nice.

It makes TDK nice and conclusive, as well as self-contained. If this belief has been upheld for at least eight years then Batman essentially won.

 

[kvz5]

Interesting that in the interviews Nolan said that "Gotham has moved on" while Batman is still "frozen in time" and "has hit a brick wall". What does that mean for Bats?

 

[The Joker]

He's Thomas Wayne 2.0. His death galvanized the city into saving itself. But once again, that will not be enough. That is why I don't think Batman will die or sacrifice himself in this movie to save Gotham. Two major characters have died and their deaths while serving as inspiration for the city to save itself were in the end not enough. Batman has to have some special significance. He has to be something more.

I couldn't agree more and I hope you're right

It makes TDK nice and conclusive, as well as self-contained. If this belief has been upheld for at least eight years then Batman essentially won.

Conclusive and self contained?

Bane doesn't agree with you

 

[Nevincer]

I couldn't agree more and I hope you're right



Conclusive and self contained?

Bane doesn't agree with you

Well, of course... What I mean to say is it feels like Batman won a nice clean battle, but not the war as it were.

 

[zmystico]

I think it is an actual piece of legislation that allows the GPD to act in a more...totalitarian manner. Dent's death (much like Thomas Wayne's) pushed the citizens into action. With Batsy taking the blame and becoming the scapegoat, Gotham decides to stop relying on the Dark Knight and gives more power to Gordon & police.

 

[munchie64]

^^^ I 100% agree. This will give Bane and crew an excuse to start riots and such. It's possible that some citizens and especially the prisoners would think that the law went too far. The anger would get even worse when Bane reveals that the oppressive laws are dedicated to a murderer and cop killer.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Image from the New York portion of the filming.

As for the text at the bottom, I guessed "To remain free, keep your eyes and ears open" but it could be something else.

 

[Victarion]

Perhaps the legislation makes it legal for the GPD to operate as Batman does/did. That would contribute to the seething beneath the veneer of tranquility that has settled over Gotham.

 

[TCCB]

It's been suggested before but maybe the "Harvey Dent Act" gets rid of most of the police and local government officials who are corrupt, that was Harvey's thing. it's probably Gordon that leads the charge with that. Which complicates things for Gordon because Harvey threatened his family and nearly killed him. Gordon knows the truth, but has to play along. He sees what good it's doing but can never feel relief from it, knowing the cost. Batman having taken the blame and having inspired Gotham to be better, goes into self imposed exile, to grieve, to pay for what he did to Harvey, what he did to Rachel. What he's lost all of these years.

 

[Fudgie]

The way they used footage in the prologue of Gordon talking about Dent inspiring Gotham so greatly makes me think it's going to be a crack down on crime. The Harvey Dent Act will be what made Gotham a better place to live.

 

[KidDarko]

My take on TDKR timeline, based on the clips:

-the Dent Act ushers in more police power over the mob, at public freedoms expense.
-With organised crime broken, Batman retires. Especially as he is now viewed as a murderer, in order for Dent to fulfil his 'White Knight' legacy.
-But Bruce hasn't shifted his grief and anger over Rachel.
-He wallows & yearns with no crimefighting outlet, stuck in time, for 8 years.
- Bane breaks the prisons & asylums free, overrunning Gotham.
- Gordon breaks down, overrun, begs Batman back.
- Batman returns, restoring order, putting the criminals & psychos behind bars, totally exhausting his out-of-shape body in the process.
- Bane bombs the football stadium, drawing Batman out.
- Bane crushes Batman, knocking him unconscious with the boot stomp to the head. Bruce is imprisoned in the League's base/prison.
- Bane reveals Dents crimes. The public riot. Bane imprisons the aristocracy.
- Catwoman switches allegiances to break Batman out.
- Batman uses the one piece of new technology that the League's mole didn't steal - the Batwing - to fight back.

...How Nolan wraps it up from here, I don't want to know. But im pretty sure Batman will need help, may die, and that Bane will only be defeated if he is unmasked too...

 

[iansilv]

Hey- what about this- considering that the "Harvey Dent Act" really does sound like a specific piece of legislation, and that photo from the New York set that refers to Gotham citizens seeing "something" and saying "something, what if the Harvey Dent Act is a specific law, that makes it illegal to NOT report a crime? The Harvey Dent Act could be a law that makes people essentially accomplices for any crime they know about and don't report.

Here's why I think that might be it- Harvey Dent was all about confronting crime and not being afraid of the mob in open court. The idea that people could be forced to report crime- maybe be held criminally liable for the crimes they fault to report- would certainly crack down on crime. But it would cause a huge amount of mistrust between many people- and that could be the "seething" people are talking about. So now, you have a populace that is safer, with less crime, but many, many people are frustrated by feeling like the have been forced to betray people close to them for committing crimes. Friendships and relationships ended, people distrust each other a lot more.

A law like this would go against our society's laws and many in the "real world" would consider a duty to report crime or face punishment a breach of their liberties. But in the fantasy world of Gotham city, with all of the crazy stuff that has been going on, it might be something that is enacted as an emergency measure the people accept. I can imagine the feeling of rage that people would feel after having to live under a law like this, report on people close to them for committing any crimes- even petty ones- and THEN finding out that the person who's ideology it was based on was in fact breaking the law himself by killing people - including cops- with the flip of a coin...

Thoughts anyone?

 

[SuperMike335!!]

Interesting that in the interviews Nolan said that "Gotham has moved on" while Batman is still "frozen in time" and "has hit a brick wall". What does that mean for Bats?

That he has lost touch with reality and is essentially fighting yesterdays battle.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Nolan said Bruce Wayne is frozen in time. I think his choice of words is deliberate.

"Eight years after The Dark Knight. So he's an older Bruce Wayne. He's not in a great state."

"Not that he was ever in a great state! He's frozen in time. He's hit a brick wall."