The History of 300

[Asteroid-Man]

Hellas was invaded by Persia only twice and both invasions unltimatly failed so Hallas was never conquered by Persia!!! Darius and Xerxes' attempts FAILED!!! Daruis (Marathon) and Xerxes (Thermoplyae and Plataea) where the ONLY 2 attempts at military conquest of Greece by Persia. The Greek polis of Asia Minor WHERE under Persian control at various times BUT Hellas WAS NEVER Taken!!!!! Only the Romans, the Turks, and the Germans have taken Hellas!

Persia attempted to weaken Greece by Backing Sparta in the Peloponnesian War. Also Makadonians are of Dorian stock hense a Hellenic Tribe. I repectfully disbute your claim on who took the most land, That would be Ghengis Khan!! NOT Xerxest:

Also If Darius' "second attempt" was successful then WHY did HIS SON had to come back in less than 11 years after. Also Xerxes said that he wanted to avenge his father's defeat??? and please show ne your sources? I own Heroditus' histories and Thucydides. The Wikipedia article uses him along with Thucydides as it sources! So since the article has contemperary sources I would trust the article.

Also the Reason why Sparta fell was not due to the diminshing of slavery but because of it's laws! Spartan could lose his citizenship due to cowardess to not paying a grain tax. When Spartan reached age of majority he had to join a mess hall. If he didn't join the Mess hall he wasn't granted citizenship. Also He was required to give grain and if he wasn't able to give grain he lost his citizenship AND his Land allotment which was divided up between the full citizens.

The population of "FULL" Spartans started shrinking to the point of it having less than a 1000 Spartan citizen hoplites to field for battle After their defeat at Battle of Leuctra in 371 BC!!! Also agoge was made easier as the years passed on and Walls were built around Sparta! The Spartans ended up using Mercenaries for their wars during the hellenistic Period.

Each attempt to change the Land allotment and grant the "lesser Spartans" Full rights again and make the agoge "SPARTAN" again was overuled by the various Spartan Land owners who had those Openmind3ed Kings over thrown!

You do realise that you are talking about 100+ years later then what I am? Honestly, if you're gonna argue, know both sides I am an expert on history and I know what I am talking about. I am not super patriotic but I can't stand it when people degrade my background. When 9/11 happend, we got pulled over crossing the boarder every day we went, and guesse what, we arn't Saudi Arabian or Afghani! You may be a little patriotic, but atleast get the facts straight and next post, make sure we are talking about the same time period
EDIT:
Darius was not "defeated" he was old and sick, he couldn't lead. And Persia didn't get defeated, Darius just didn't fight for it anymore. Xerses got it back in is dad's honour

 

[herakles]

DUDE WHAT 100+ years later?????? THE Greek Asia Minor polis where under Persian control (Cyrus the Great took them) and the mainland Polis (Athens) assisted their Asian counterparts who where in revolt to Persia which is WHY Darius invaded Greece! He lost and was attempting to invaded again when he died and Xerxes took on his father's crusade and lost as well! Blaim their general Mardonius who in charge for all those ultimately failed invasions. That is fact! Also I have a History degree too! My friend BOTH Marathon and Plataea where Persian DEFEATS!! They had victories but they ultimately lost those wars!

Also I have a GREAT deal of Love for the Persian people. I've only met 1 Persian I didn't like and he was drunk!

Also I'm fairly dark Greek and I have to speak English whenever I cross a Borderpatrol checkpoint or else they think I'm an Illegal!

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Ya but he was mixing stories from a whole 100 years difference together.

 

[herakles]

WHO is mixing the histories????

 

[That-Guy]

Hey, in Sin City: The Big Fat Kill, Dwight references a famous ancient battle. It's been a while since I read it so I don't remember the details, but does anyone know if this was the battle he was talking about? Because if so, that's be pretty cool and would sort of make 300 an indirect chapter or spin-off of the Sin City series (even though its (sort of) based on actual events).

 

[Nivek]

Hey, in Sin City: The Big Fat Kill, Dwight references a famous ancient battle. It's been a while since I read it so I don't remember the details, but does anyone know if this was the battle he was talking about? Because if so, that's be pretty cool and would sort of make 300 an indirect chapter or spin-off of the Sin City series

Yes, I believe that 1 page panel in the Big Fat kill probobly inspired Frank to do the full 300 comic.

 

[That-Guy]

Thanks. That's pretty cool. Hey, on a side note, I was watching The Last Samurai the other day and they mentioned this battle there as well.

 

[kytrigger]

Thanks. That's pretty cool. Hey, on a side note, I was watching The Last Samurai the other day and they mentioned this battle there as well.

Yeah, in the scene during the major battle. It's actually a pretty well known battle/story to quite a few people, and has no doubt inspired many stories and movies. It's like the original underdog story.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Only difference is that the Spartans had slavery and they lost to the Persians who helped get rid of Civil war in Greece But if you're going by the way the Movie is being based, yup its an underdog story

 

[herakles]

Dude you need to SERIOUSLY read about the GrecoPersian Wars!!! The Battle of Thermoplyae was designed to be a defeat! When the Spartans when to Delphi they where told that either a Spartan King falls or Sparta falls! That IS WHY Leonidas went to Thermoplyae, TO DIE SO SPARTA COULD LIVE!!!!

Persia had victories? YES but Xerxes lost that war much the same way his father did! Afterwards the Persians would use bribes and diplomacy BUT NOT open warfare! After the Peloponnessian war Sparta attempted to invade Asia Minor to "liberate" the Hellene polis but Sparta NEVER had the manpower and the their invasion went no were!

It would take a Makadonian king, Philip to unify Greece under the Vergina Sun banner!

This should help you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian-Greek_Wars Also the article uses Herodotus and other historians as references

ALSO FOR SUCH A EXPERT ON HISTORY you sure talk very "young" !???

 

[kytrigger]

Dude you need to SERIOUSLY read about the GrecoPersian Wars!!! The Battle of Thermoplyae was designed to be a defeat! When the Spartans when to Delphi they where told that either a Spartan King falls or Sparta falls! That IS WHY Leonidas went to Thermoplyae, TO DIE SO SPARTA COULD LIVE!!!!

Persia had victories? YES but Xerxes lost that war much the same way his father did! Afterwards the Persians would use bribes and diplomacy BUT NOT open warfare! After the Peloponnessian war Sparta attempted to invade Asia Minor to "liberate" the Hellene polis but Sparta NEVER had the manpower and the their invasion went no were!

It would take a Makadonian king, Philip to unify Greece under the Vergina Sun banner!

This should help you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian-Greek_Wars Also the article uses Herodotus and other historians as references

ALSO FOR SUCH A EXPERT ON HISTORY you sure talk like young !???

In another thread he said he was 14, so while he might know a lot more about history than most 14 year olds, he can't be an expert (since no 14 year old is an expert on anything). Unless it was a typo and he's 41 or something.

 

[kytrigger]

Only difference is that the Spartans had slavery and they lost to the Persians who helped get rid of Civil war in Greece But if you're going by the way the Movie is being based, yup its an underdog story

So what, it's still an underdog story whether you agree with them being portrayed as heroes or not. Underdog just means that they have a very little chance of success, which they did. Their goal was to slow the invasion for a few days, which they were successful at doing.

 

[herakles]

In another thread he said he was 14, so while he might know a lot more about history than most 14 year olds, he can't be an expert (since no 14 year old is an expert on anything). Unless it was a typo and he's 41 or something.

I knew he is young especially when he called a Xerxes or Darius a "pimp"

Too me that is an INSULT to a call a KING THAT Especally a Persian king!

 

[kytrigger]

I knew he is young especially when he called a Xerxes or Darius a "pimp"

Too me that is an INSULT to a call a KING THAT Especally a Persian king!

Yeah, I knew he was young, but I gotta give him credit, he knows a lot more than most people his age do.

 

[jnpoe]

What more could you want? You got brave, patriotic white freedom loving soldiers fighting dark-skinned, pierced, evil doers from the Middle East whose culture, costume, and custom are alien.

But wait a second , if this movie should be turned with reality today , and politics , well here we got

The empire of the world at that time = Persia
Today = US

An Empire going to war coz of 1 man's will = Xerxes
Today = Bush

Also Persia goes to the biggest army , an army that could easily destroy cities ...... Doesn't sound like US military ?

Don't think the Spartans would or should be confused with US soldiers , Hell they are defending their land against a massive foreign army .....

They aren't starting a war after Oi... Sorry , to free people and give *Democracy *

 

[Anguissette1979]

Yeah, I knew he was young, but I gotta give him credit, he knows a lot more than most people his age do.

He winks...... a lot.

 

[Eltaco]

As has been said before this movie is based off a graphic novel. So its meant to entertain more than to import facts.

Thermopylae itself was won by the Persians. Their weren't a million of them though, modern estimates put it at 200 000 at the most. But that is still a huge amount compared to what the Greeks could muster. That being said the Spartans even though were killed to the last man did humiliate Xerxes by inflicting so many casualties with so few numbers.

The movie is somewhat right in Spartans fighting for freedom. In order to be a Hoplite for Sparta, you have to be a freeborn Spartan citizen. They did have slavery, but so have a lot of other democracies.

In terms of the battles overall outcome it was neglable militarily. The Persians continued moving down and did capture Athens. And the Greeks were still very capable of organizing another force.

So take this movie as more of the courage of a few to stand up agianst insermountable odds for what they beleived.

 

[Speedball]

Does anyone know if we will get to see Athens burn in this film? It would be a great site to see in a film like this.

 

[thor87]

Asteroid-Man,

First of all, I teach history, so I side with you on "truth finding" and not often treating both sides fairly. And as historians, we know how things are presented depending on who is telling the story, who is the victor, and who writes or re-writes the history. And this story appears to be told from the Spartan point of view and is going to probaby favor the Spartans...

The Battle at Thermopylae was won by the Persians. And Xerxes DID occupy Athens before the Persian defeat at Salamis. That is history and can not be changed.

Also keep in mind that the one person whose historic information we often depend regarding this period in world events is that of Herodotus, who was Ionian (Greek)... We need to keep that in mind as well.

With that said, I just purchased Frank Miller's graphic novel today and scanning through it... the end of the novel. This is some of the dialogue on both sides. Some of this language can be interpreted in many different ways... again, depending on your point of view.

Xerxes/Persians: In the heat of what appears to be the last day of battle, this is some of the conversation:

"Listen to your fellow Greek He can attest to the divine one's generosity. Despite your several insults... despite your horrid blasphemies... the lord of hosts is prepare to forgive all and more, to reward your service. You fight for your lands? Keep them! You fight for Sparta? She will be wealthier and more powerful than ever before!You fight for your kingship? You will be proclaimed warlord of all Greece...answerable only to the one true master of the world!"

Now, was Xerxes actually willing to do that? It depends on who you talk to.

Leonidas/Spartans: They have lost the Battle of Thermopylae and the 300 lay dead. This is some of the conversation:

"Captain Dilios spins his stories. His best story. The one about the Hot Gates. In the waters of Salamis, Athenian searfaring mastery lead the united Greek navy to shatter the Persian armada."

How do you interpret the term "spins". Does he just "tell" the story or does he exaggerate about the victory? Again... it depends on who is reading and who is telling the story.

Overall... IMHO... this story is about the 300 Spartans and undoubtly leans to their side. But, I guess one will have to actually watch the film to see. And even with that, it is going to up to how people interpret things.

BTW - I thought that TROY gave a rather balanced point in its presentation. The Greeks came off as barbarians in that one... not the Persians. IMHO!

As Kytrigger said... the keywords are "graphic novel based on legend".

Lastly, you should see this one, Asteroid Man, if only so that you can refute any thing you see as a serious inaccuracy in the film.

And Herakles, realize that Asteroid Man has a very valid concern. For many people... this will be their "history lesson" on this battle, accurate or not. That is always a danger when it comes to "History vs. Hollywood"; which I hope the History Channel will do when this film is released.

And I understand your view as a Greek... so I am not taking sides here... trying to be unbiased and presenting what I see.

Lady Leonidas

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King

since when were trojans persian, in everything i have read they have never been depicted as persian or any other middle eastern race

 

[thor87]

But wait a second , if this movie should be turned with reality today , and politics , well here we got

The empire of the world at that time = Persia
Today = US

An Empire going to war coz of 1 man's will = Xerxes
Today = Bush

Also Persia goes to the biggest army , an army that could easily destroy cities ...... Doesn't sound like US military ?

Don't think the Spartans would or should be confused with US soldiers , Hell they are defending their land against a massive foreign army .....

They aren't starting a war after Oi... Sorry , to free people and give *Democracy *

except your forgetting that the entire basis of western civilization is greek and roman, America was founded on priciples of democracy that were first founded in greece. Maby modern America doesnt correlate well with the time period of greece that we are looking at in 300 but reveloutionary war America fits a little better, and once Sparta becomes the dominant city state in Greece after the Pelopanesean(sp) war Sparta does become the military super power that would correlate well with modern day America.

Bottom Line is the West will always depict other Western civiliations as the good guys and everyone else as the bad guys, basically because its true.

 

[euthanatos12]

I guess I'm in the middle here. I happen to be greek/american with a persian stepmother, so I guess I see a few sides of this. While the greeks suffered numerous defeats they were never truly conquered by the persians. And even if you maintain that they were, it hardly seems like it when compared to what happened with the Turks etc.

You obviously can't expect this movie to be historically accurate in any way. Just look at the trailer and see what's going on... (it does look cool though)

But this brings me to my question: what is the deal with the freakish looking soldiers/monsters in this movie? Like what is the purpose of those abominations and why are they there? (for example, the fat one with the blades for arms)

I mean I love sci-fi or fantasy elements as much as anyone else, but I'm just trying to figure this out (I have not read the graphic novel or anything).

EDIT: I also wanted to add that this movie CLEARLY takes the side of the Spartans, making the Persians look like thugs/barbarians/monsters etc. It seems to be even more one-sided than most movies of this type.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Its the typical European-American-Australian stereotype of the Eastern Man. In reality, Cyrus the Great (founder of the Persian empire) created the first charter of human rights for nations in the world. Cyrur's charter exists in the United Nations, and his name was mentioned by the Jews in their holy book and supposedly even in the Islamic holy book. The Persians excelled in the field of mathematics, science, literature, arts, you name it, the Persians were and still are known for it, but you won't see a movie about him until a very long time.

The Spartans to me were just an blink in history, a martial race who savagely killed and terrorized their slaves (Helots) for sport for the very fact that they could be more handsome, or smarter than them. They were the true terrorists of their time and they even had a name for their terrorist society - the Krypteia, an ancient Al-Qaeda at best.

Just watch the 300 movie for what it is, comic book fantasy and go home satisfied that today we live in freedom and not in Sparta.

 

[Horrorfan]

Im paying to see some persian *****es get pwned!!!

 

[herakles]

Its the typical European-American-Australian stereotype of the Eastern Man. In reality, Cyrus the Great (founder of the Persian empire) created the first charter of human rights for nations in the world. Cyrur's charter exists in the United Nations, and his name was mentioned by the Jews in their holy book and supposedly even in the Islamic holy book. The Persians excelled in the field of mathematics, science, literature, arts, you name it, the Persians were and still are known for it, but you won't see a movie about him until a very long time.

The Spartans to me were just an blink in history, a martial race who savagely killed and terrorized their slaves (Helots) for sport for the very fact that they could be more handsome, or smarter than them. They were the true terrorists of their time and they even had a name for their terrorist society - the Krypteia, an ancient Al-Qaeda at best.

Just watch the 300 movie for what it is, comic book fantasy and go home satisfied that today we live in freedom and not in Sparta.

some of your opinions on Persia are correct Cyrus the Great WAS a GREAT king but your views on Sparta are a little closed minded! There is a BUG DIFFERENCE between the Crypteia and AlQaeda!!!

 

[Lady Leonidas]

Its the typical European-American-Australian stereotype of the Eastern Man. In reality, Cyrus the Great (founder of the Persian empire) created the first charter of human rights for nations in the world. Cyrur's charter exists in the United Nations, and his name was mentioned by the Jews in their holy book and supposedly even in the Islamic holy book. The Persians excelled in the field of mathematics, science, literature, arts, you name it, the Persians were and still are known for it, but you won't see a movie about him until a very long time.

Midnyte Sun,


I agree... a postitive film about a Persian such as Cyrus the Great will be a long time coming... especially in the political atmosphere of today. And that is ashame! But, there is hope!

I guess I'm in the middle here. I happen to be greek/american with a persian stepmother, so I guess I see a few sides of this. While the greeks suffered numerous defeats they were never truly conquered by the persians. And even if you maintain that they were, it hardly seems like it when compared to what happened with the Turks etc.

You obviously can't expect this movie to be historically accurate in any way. Just look at the trailer and see what's going on... (it does look cool though)

But this brings me to my question: what is the deal with the freakish looking soldiers/monsters in this movie? Like what is the purpose of those abominations and why are they there? (for example, the fat one with the blades for arms)

I mean I love sci-fi or fantasy elements as much as anyone else, but I'm just trying to figure this out (I have not read the graphic novel or anything).

EDIT: I also wanted to add that this movie CLEARLY takes the side of the Spartans, making the Persians look like thugs/barbarians/monsters etc. It seems to be even more one-sided than most movies of this type.

Euthanatos12,


I also agree with your statement in the "edit" about this being a bit one sided. But, that is the way Miller wrote it.


Many people also probably don't realize that the reason that Leonidas had 300 men is because the Spartans "partied" all of the time and there was a festival going on that no one wanted to leave. So, he took the 300 who had sons, knowing that they probably would not return.


As far as your question regarding characters you refer to as "freakish looking"... I recall Zack Snyder saying something them wanting to add some "fantasy" and "myth" to the movie and thought they would do that by adding the "giant character" you speak of.


The other character, the deformed Spartan, is part of Frank Miller's graphic novel.


Lady Leonidas :meow: