The Avengers The "I Believe In Mark Ruffalo!" Support Thread

[DocHoliday]

I just can't see Ruffalo getting angry like that for the mo-cap. So in a way he'll be able to stretch a bit in this role. Not trashing him (one of my fave actors) but people have a certain expectation from what you'll get from him. With Norton we had seen that duality before. I think it is a pretty awesome chance for him to trump people's perception in a way while also delivering what makes him likable to begin with.

 

[TikkiEXX]

dont know why he has to be angry to do mo cap. the dude is a professional actor im pretty sure he can do whatever the role calls for.

 

[Spidey-Quad]

Thank you ^

 

[Sarg92]

Good to hear that Ruffalo is gonna be doing motion capture but Norton and Ang Lee also have done motion capture for Hulk in the past.

The only difference is that now Marvel are gonna be using the motion capture tech from Avatar (according to Ruffalo) so it should be much better than the past efforts.

 

[misjuevos]

i hope this means more hulk and less banner for avengers. save banner for hulk 2. don't want to have to wait for banner to get angry all the time in avengers.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Don't count on it. Having Hulk mostly in the film would put a hole in their budget. Out of the obvious other CG there will be used, Hulk will just be one of them.

I mean Jesus, am I the only one here who is actually more interested in Banner and Ruffalo than seeing Hulk all the time? I can't really just care for a CG dude who doesn't speak that much and just smashes stuff. I'd like to see the man who has that on his shoulders. To me that's more interesting than seeing Hulk smash in every single scene. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Hulk action, but that's not the most important element. Banner and Hulk are equally important. People are forgoing what Lee had in mind for the character upon its creation. It wasn't all about Hulk. Stuff sinpired by it like Jekyll and Hyde or Frankenstein were as equal about the people and the creatures. We can't understand them without the other.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

You are not alone, Jones.

 

[co2]

Don't count on it. Having Hulk mostly in the film would put a hole in their budget. Out of the obvious other CG there will be used, Hulk will just be one of them.

I mean Jesus, am I the only one here who is actually more interested in Banner and Ruffalo than seeing Hulk all the time? I can't really just care for a CG dude who doesn't speak that much and just smashes stuff. I'd like to see the man who has that on his shoulders. To me that's more interesting than seeing Hulk smash in every single scene. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Hulk action, but that's not the most important element. Banner and Hulk are equally important. People are forgoing what Lee had in mind for the character upon its creation. It wasn't all about Hulk. Stuff sinpired by it like Jekyll and Hyde or Frankenstein were as equal about the people and the creatures. We can't understand them without the other.

Amen, buddy. That's why Ruffalo's comments about Bixby's portrayal give some confidence. He was a guy that was at the same time very likeable AND you sympathized for him, so that when people started kicking him down, you cheered when Hulk FINALLY emerged. That's a combination that none of the movies has yet to fully capture. But seeing as Hulk is going to be an obstacel that the Avengers are goign to have to face, I really don't want him just thrown in there as being ver disposable. His arc needs to be there almost as much as Cap's.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yeah, I want to see Banner and each member go on some journey and have to work together, yet they are all dealing with something personal. Tony might be dealing with joining the team for the sake of his father and having to deal with Cap who could scrutinize him and his well being, Rogers will have to adjust to a new decade, a new century and setting, and everything that coes with it and being the leader. Thor in whether to serve or protect mortal kind willingly and finding his true place on the team.

Banner's journey in this film should be controlling the Hulk and/or embracing it for doing good. He's gonna have to accept that as much as he wants to be rid of it, he'll have to embrace it. He'll have to find some way in beig the Hulk and controlling it to interact with the team. It could be spectacular. There should be trust themes as well.

I'd rather see that than Hulk smashing for an entire film. I mean show Hulk doing his things, it's just that it becomes pointless and aimless if it's only that. I'm surprised Hulk fans just want Hulk. They should know that the man is as important as the other self.

 

[Obi-Ron]

I just hope Hulk is given some decent characterization this time. People seem to think he is just "Banner turned ******ed and breaking stuff." So far no live action version has really bothered trying to actually make him interesting.

 

[Bruce Banner]

Don't count on it. Having Hulk mostly in the film would put a hole in their budget. Out of the obvious other CG there will be used, Hulk will just be one of them.

I mean Jesus, am I the only one here who is actually more interested in Banner and Ruffalo than seeing Hulk all the time? I can't really just care for a CG dude who doesn't speak that much and just smashes stuff. I'd like to see the man who has that on his shoulders. To me that's more interesting than seeing Hulk smash in every single scene. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Hulk action, but that's not the most important element. Banner and Hulk are equally important. People are forgoing what Lee had in mind for the character upon its creation. It wasn't all about Hulk. Stuff sinpired by it like Jekyll and Hyde or Frankenstein were as equal about the people and the creatures. We can't understand them without the other.

^This, all this right here

 

[Doctor Jones]

I just hope Hulk is given some decent characterization this time. People seem to think he is just "Banner turned ******ed and breaking stuff." So far no live action version has really bothered trying to actually make him interesting.

Don't count on it. This is a film, not a comic, where drawing a big green creature is limitless without even a budget. They chose an actor to play him for a reason. Why do you think they're saying all this stuff about Banner? He's not gonna just be in this for five minutes and the rest of the time Hulk is gonna be in it talking and having a compete characterization. Not enough money for that. Especially having to develop three other heroes.

If you watch Ang Lee's film, Hulk is very interesting. The desert scenes to Hulk even looking at the reflection of himself in the water. These say more than words. I think Hulk talking in full speech and dialogue to the Avengers would be hokey. It would sound like Krunk in your avatar. Or just hear how he spoke in the former films. Imagine him talking like that in full sentences. I prefer him to say fewer words. You can do more with him with less to say I think. Hulk is already a symbol of going too far in nature and the punishment that Banner endures for going too far. It's really a manifistation of Banner and his anger but symbolized as a green creature. Hulk is smart of course and he's not just some dumb animal and he's just as important as is Banner. But I just think him talking in full sentences with the voice he has now would be silly.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I don't mind hulk speaking, but he shouldn't speak often.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Unless they make Hulk into the smart form, I don't see him being interesting to have during the whole film. He'd either be an action piece or comedic relief.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I mean Jesus, am I the only one here who is actually more interested in Banner and Ruffalo than seeing Hulk all the time? I can't really just care for a CG dude who doesn't speak that much and just smashes stuff. I'd like to see the man who has that on his shoulders. To me that's more interesting than seeing Hulk smash in every single scene. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Hulk action, but that's not the most important element. Banner and Hulk are equally important. People are forgoing what Lee had in mind for the character upon its creation. It wasn't all about Hulk. Stuff sinpired by it like Jekyll and Hyde or Frankenstein were as equal about the people and the creatures. We can't understand them without the other.

I'm certainly not interesting in more of the Banner overload we've been subjected to since he started in live action. Banner is one of my "big 3" that I want to see much less of in super hero movies.

1-Bruce Banner
2-Lex Luthor
3-Logan/Wolverine

It's almost a chicken/egg thing here. Those who have made Hulk projects have turned him into a mindless mute who's only job is to smash stuff....and you are now tired of that character they've turned the Hulk into. I'm tired of that character too. I'm still waiting for the real Hulk to show up on a screen. ...One with a personality.

I totally agree with you on a particular point. Banner and Hulk are equally important. We haven't gotten "equal" so far. Not even close. Now it's time to give the Hulk character some catch-up time so his character will be as developed as the Banner character.

 

[Obi-Ron]

Exactly.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Even if hulk doesn't speak, I'd like to see more of his personality through his actions we need to see the little things that hulk does to show he's no murderous brute.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I'm surprised Hulk fans just want Hulk. They should know that the man is as important as the other self.

You just answered your own question. Hulk fans want more Hulk because the "other self" (you can't even say it?) is just as important as the man. It does work both ways. If we are going to claim it can't be done....don't bother with the character. You're just going to end up with a product that the public yawns at as we've seen so far.

We are going to keep saying "they are equally important" and then argue that the movies should keep ignoring the Hulk character in favor of letting Banner dominate the entire story (again)?

Don't count on it. This is a film, not a comic, where drawing a big green creature is limitless without even a budget. They chose an actor to play him for a reason. Why do you think they're saying all this stuff about Banner? He's not gonna just be in this for five minutes and the rest of the time Hulk is gonna be in it talking and having a compete characterization. Not enough money for that. Especially having to develop three other heroes.

Maybe that's why you save money on the actor.

Budgets:
TIH-150 million
Hulk-137 million
Lord of the Rings -281 million (3 movies 94 million average)

Someone is overspending. LOTR managed to have a fully developed CGI character that was fully capable of speech and was probably the most popular character in the films....for way less than the money that was spent on the "run in a smash stuff and run away so Banner can get back onscreen so our big name actor can get his screentime".

I think Hulk talking in full speech and dialogue to the Avengers would be hokey. It would sound like Krunk in your avatar. Or just hear how he spoke in the former films. Imagine him talking like that in full sentences. I prefer him to say fewer words. You can do more with him with less to say I think. Hulk is already a symbol of going too far in nature and the punishment that Banner endures for going too far. It's really a manifistation of Banner and his anger but symbolized as a green creature. Hulk is smart of course and he's not just some dumb animal and he's just as important as is Banner. But I just think him talking in full sentences with the voice he has now would be silly.

I always wonder how anyone knows this. It's never been tried.

What has been tried? We've seen Peter Jackson do it very successfully with a CGI character. Yes...he talked funny. No...the audience didn't have any problem with it. (Something called "good writing" takes care of that) He was rendered about as well as the Hulk in Ang Lee's movie...but audiences didn't complain about how he looked. (Hint: Because Gollum was a real character in the films...not just a special effect)

What else has been tried? We've had a TV show that should have been named "The Incredible Banner" and two movies that turned the Hulk character into a special guest in his own movies without the power to communicate his feelings or with any real interaction with his co-stars. Audiences, left nothing else to do in relation to the character, talked about how he looked and many jokes were made about that. Both the movies and the TV show were not very successful with the general public. Not complete failures, but nothing about them would sustain a franchise. So we know this approach isn't working.

Two clear paths appear. Keep doing what has not worked or try something different. Find a way to present the Hulk character onscreen for the first time ever and at least give him a chance. The audience just might like him as much as Gollum.

If you can't put the Hulk character onscreen...stop wasting your time with Bruce Banner movies. The general public is yawning at those.

 

[Son of Coul]

I prefer Banner only when they don't characterize Hulk much. They characterized Hulk a little more in TIH and gave him some lines and the cave scene, which was nice. But until they finally make him a full-blown character, Banner will be more fun to watch. They gotta hit on Hulk's personality points, like him hating Banner just as much as Banner hates him.

 

[Norm3]

We need a talking Hulk in the Avengers. He is human after all not a monkey.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

Hopefully the events in TIH are accounted for and Bruce can control The Hulk.

 

[Deaths Head II]

Didn't they say that if a Hulk 2 was made before Avengers the TIH ending would mean that Bruce controls the Hulk but if Avengers were made first that the TIH ending means would mean The Hulk would be a villain?

 

[Figs]

Both Norton and ROth have also done mo-cap session for TIH.
I wonder if they're talking about doing on-set mo-cap. That Ruffalo would be wearing the imocap suit and interact with the actors on set. THAT would be a first. They'll have to settle the height issues.

Basically how they did Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen. I also don't think it's hard for them to increase the Hulk's size after Ruffalo is done filming with the mocap suit.

 

[Hoblin]

Hopefully the events in TIH are accounted for and Bruce can control The Hulk.

IMO that would be a huge and non-sensical mistake. I don't think Banner should be controlling Hulk any more than he should be controlling Hawkeye. Or, for that matter, Hawkeye controlling Iron Man.

 

[Doctor Jones]

You just answered your own question. Hulk fans want more Hulk because the "other self" (you can't even say it?) is just as important as the man. It does work both ways. If we are going to claim it can't be done....don't bother with the character. You're just going to end up with a product that the public yawns at as we've seen so far.

We are going to keep saying "they are equally important" and then argue that the movies should keep ignoring the Hulk character in favor of letting Banner dominate the entire story (again)?



Maybe that's why you save money on the actor.

Budgets:
TIH-150 million
Hulk-137 million
Lord of the Rings -281 million (3 movies 94 million average)

Someone is overspending. LOTR managed to have a fully developed CGI character that was fully capable of speech and was probably the most popular character in the films....for way less than the money that was spent on the "run in a smash stuff and run away so Banner can get back onscreen so our big name actor can get his screentime".



I always wonder how anyone knows this. It's never been tried.

What has been tried? We've seen Peter Jackson do it very successfully with a CGI character. Yes...he talked funny. No...the audience didn't have any problem with it. (Something called "good writing" takes care of that) He was rendered about as well as the Hulk in Ang Lee's movie...but audiences didn't complain about how he looked. (Hint: Because Gollum was a real character in the films...not just a special effect)

What else has been tried? We've had a TV show that should have been named "The Incredible Banner" and two movies that turned the Hulk character into a special guest in his own movies without the power to communicate his feelings or with any real interaction with his co-stars. Audiences, left nothing else to do in relation to the character, talked about how he looked and many jokes were made about that. Both the movies and the TV show were not very successful with the general public. Not complete failures, but nothing about them would sustain a franchise. So we know this approach isn't working.

Two clear paths appear. Keep doing what has not worked or try something different. Find a way to present the Hulk character onscreen for the first time ever and at least give him a chance. The audience just might like him as much as Gollum.

If you can't put the Hulk character onscreen...stop wasting your time with Bruce Banner movies. The general public is yawning at those.

But what would he say that wouldn't make it sound funny? He has such a thunderous and hard voice. Him talking normally with that tone but with dialogue instead wouldn't seem right. He's this huge brute and suddenly he's talking full sentences. I don't think that works as well as one would imagine.

And we don't know the budget for this yet. No doubt there will be alot of CG, and Hulk will just be one of those things. On film, it's about the anticipation and the building up to Banner turning into Hulk. It becomes tired if he's there all the time. He's this huge spectacle that could be just there and wasteful in money if he's there most of the time. For money reasons, you could just as easily give these lines to Banner. We could see Hulk's personality, no argument there, but I'm just being a realist. Hulk just walking aroudn all calm and cool and interacting with the team all the time seems like a waste of money. Hulk is an action componant on film, but it never hurts to show his personality of course, which we did see, just not as much as people would have liked.