The Incredible Hulk: "begging for his life"...(wtf???)

[unstoppable]

yes, Hulk "uprooted" him, lol.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Cool. That's not Defenders #15 though. Is it from Marvel Fanfare?

 

[unstoppable]

Cool. That's not Defenders #15 though. Is it from Marvel Fanfare?

I'm not entirely sure ask DevilHulk
I got it from the KMC Hulk respect thread

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Gladiator was at one time officially declared by Marvel as being stronger than an enraged Hulk and has also had some appearances that were much more impressive than any the Hulk has had. The one that particularly comes to mind is the FF issue where Gladiator gives the Thing a brutal beating that is far faster and more severe than the Hulk has ever been capable of. There were a few panels of the fight between Gladiator and the Hulk posted elsewhere on this site and from what was shown the fight was ridiculous. In the panels shown Gladiator was not even fighting back. With Gladiators super speed the Hulk would be nothing but a punching bag just like the Thing was. If they are really determined to make the Hulk more formiddable they should at least make the fight look reasonable.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Gladiator was at one time officially declared by Marvel as being stronger than an enraged Hulk and has also had some appearances that were much more impressive than any the Hulk has had. The one that particularly comes to mind is the FF issue where Gladiator gives the Thing a brutal beating that is far faster and more severe than the Hulk has ever been capable of. There were a few panels of the fight between Gladiator and the Hulk posted elsewhere on this site and from what was shown the fight was ridiculous. In the panels shown Gladiator was not even fighting back. With Gladiators super speed the Hulk would be nothing but a punching bag just like the Thing was. If they are really determined to make the Hulk more formiddable they should at least make the fight look reasonable.

Got a link or issue number to that "official declaration" by Marvel that Gladiator is stronger?

Glaiator held up the Baxter Building....Hulk held up a mountain range.

 

[gildea]

i hope they announced the official declaration with trumpets.

All declarations need trumpets.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

The Master Edition Handbook had various strength classifications including the class 100 category and one above that: incalculable. The sheet for the Hulk stated that when angry enough he could reach the class 100 range. Gladiator was listed as in the incalculable range.

 

[unstoppable]

The Master Edition Handbook had various strength classifications including the class 100 category and one above that: incalculable. The sheet for the Hulk stated that when angry enough he could reach the class 100 range. Gladiator was listed as in the incalculable range.

but we all know Hulk is capable of liftin' far more than 100 tons

 

[rodhulk]

Cool. That's not Defenders #15 though. Is it from Marvel Fanfare?

Yes, Marvel Fanfare.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Regardless of what the outdated Handbooks say, Gladiator's nowhere near the level he started out at. Blame it on whatever you like, but the fact is that he's pretty much small potatoes now. Doesn't really bother me either way. I've never been a fan of the character.

 

[rodhulk]

The Master Edition Handbook had various strength classifications including the class 100 category and one above that: incalculable. The sheet for the Hulk stated that when angry enough he could reach the class 100 range. Gladiator was listed as in the incalculable range.

Other handbooks have Hulk at 'incalculable' strength range when angry.

And handbooks aren't canon. The comics are, and they have shown (and clearly stated) Hulk's strength range is 'unknown' but that he far surpasses the 'class 100' when enraged. Your handbook is wrong.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The Handbooks' estimations have mostly become underestimates, really. It's just the nature of the beast, I suppose; as the characters get older, creators tend to want to one-up their past feats, so the popular characters just get more and more powerful. That's why the Hulk is now capable of practically anything and Gladiator's a wuss.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

but we all know Hulk is capable of liftin' far more than 100 tons

Absolutely!

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Actually the writers have no say at all in what is canon, the only real say is Marvel management. Since management decides what goes into the Handbooks that makes the Handbooks canon. The Master edition was stated at the time to be binding on the writers as well and that the writers were not allowed to write anything that contradicted the Handbooks. They didn't enforce that obviously but that was the intent. The writers are merely employees. Marvel itself has said that the Handbooks are the final say in what powers a character has and what his or her limits are. As for Gladiator, the pendulum will sooner or later swing back the other way and we may see him nearly kill the Hulk with a simple backhand. For now they seem to be pushing the Hulk as invincible due to pure strength however irrational his victories are but that can't last very long. Before long the Hulk will probably be losing badly to everyone he encounters. My day will really be made the day Aunt May punches him out.

 

[Vanguard07]

Even if the handbooks were accurate (which they decidedly arent) they're dated. Every issue each character could potentially gain some small power up or develop some new skill or talent. Unless they plan on releasing a handbook every year (wouldnt be surprised actually) they'll never be effective methods of judging.

Also back on the original topic, I have the issue in question. Talos was fairly cool actually. He held his own pretty well and his physical disadvantages (being weaker and less durable) were offset by being faster, far more skilled, more ruthless and by the vicious axe he carried.
During the battle Hulk said, himself that Talos probably could have taken his head off with the damned thing. (And it was a thought bubble not a remark for the benefit of Talos' ego)
So it's not like the wrinkle-chin wasnt formidable.

 

[Crimson red]

do you guys remember Gladiator getting knocked out by Gambit during Jim Lee's X-Men? I knew Marvel was full of BS after that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Actually the writers have no say at all in what is canon, the only real say is Marvel management. Since management decides what goes into the Handbooks that makes the Handbooks canon. The Master edition was stated at the time to be binding on the writers as well and that the writers were not allowed to write anything that contradicted the Handbooks. They didn't enforce that obviously but that was the intent. The writers are merely employees. Marvel itself has said that the Handbooks are the final say in what powers a character has and what his or her limits are. As for Gladiator, the pendulum will sooner or later swing back the other way and we may see him nearly kill the Hulk with a simple backhand. For now they seem to be pushing the Hulk as invincible due to pure strength however irrational his victories are but that can't last very long. Before long the Hulk will probably be losing badly to everyone he encounters. My day will really be made the day Aunt May punches him out.

Firt off, saying the writers have no say in the characters' power levels doesn't make it so. Of course they have a say. A very prominent say, in fact. Regardless of what the Handbooks were intended as, the simple fact is that they don't support what's in the comics themselves, which, at the end of the day, is really all the canon there is to these characters. If the Handbooks' being the be-all and end-all for the characters' power levels were enforced, sure, I could see the argument for the writers' not affecting things. But the fact that it hasn't clearly means that the writers--the guys in charge of producing the canon comics--do have final say on the power levels. I don't care what any Handbook says about Spider-Man's strength being in the 10-ton range; I've seen him lift subway cars in canon, which means that his strength level's gotta be well beyond 10 tons. The writer who had that happened thus changed the perception of Spider-Man's strength.

As for Gladiator, the pendulum's taking an awfully long time to swing anywhere. Whenever he's appeared in the last decade or two, it's been mostly just to get his ass kicked by the Hulk or even Thor. I wouldn't be surprised if the next time the Starjammers crossed paths with him, Corsair uppercutted him through a wall or something.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Firt off, saying the writers have no say in the characters' power levels doesn't make it so. Of course they have a say. A very prominent say, in fact. Regardless of what the Handbooks were intended as, the simple fact is that they don't support what's in the comics themselves, which, at the end of the day, is really all the canon there is to these characters. If the Handbooks' being the be-all and end-all for the characters' power levels were enforced, sure, I could see the argument for the writers' not affecting things. But the fact that it hasn't clearly means that the writers--the guys in charge of producing the canon comics--do have final say on the power levels. I don't care what any Handbook says about Spider-Man's strength being in the 10-ton range; I've seen him lift subway cars in canon, which means that his strength level's gotta be well beyond 10 tons. The writer who had that happened thus changed the perception of Spider-Man's strength.

As for Gladiator, the pendulum's taking an awfully long time to swing anywhere. Whenever he's appeared in the last decade or two, it's been mostly just to get his ass kicked by the Hulk or even Thor. I wouldn't be surprised if the next time the Starjammers crossed paths with him, Corsair uppercutted him through a wall or something.

Only after Daredevil gives him the beating of a lifetime.

 

[Themanofbat]

Besides... at any given time in Marvel history, a LOT of lesser strength characters have given beatings to stronger characters; ie Spider-Man kicking Firelord's butt back in the 80's...

The credibility comes in the storytelling.

That ASM story made us all believe that Spidey beat Firelord.
The Spidey/Juggernaut story had us believing that Spidey could stop the unstoppable foe.

Having said that, I've also read stories where I said "wtf??!!??" because so'n so couldn't possibly beat so'n so.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I kind of resent that Spider-Man/Firelord fight myself. Firelord dropped down to the ass-end of the heralds after that and has pretty much stayed there ever since. He got his ass kicked and was reduced to basically an errand boy during Jurgens' Thor run and he just recently got beaten within an inch of his life in Annihilation. Still, that's just the way power levels go in comics.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually, he seems to be on the high end again via Annihilation, since he seems to be the one going all out, where the others just kind of whimper and cower. And then I find out that Stardust is a girl.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I thought Stardust was just androgynous or asexual or something. I never really could decide whether it was a guy or a girl.

Firelord seems to be back up in the area that a herald ought to be at, but he's still at the lower tier. Look at that same fight and tell me the Silver Surfer (pre-Galactus power-up) or Terrax couldn't have done the same without nearly killing themselves. No, Firelord's squarely in the Air-Walker/Red Shift/other herald losers section still.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

In Annihilation, they make several references to Stardust being a "she".

As for Firelord, he's at the top of the low teir. The top teir is obviously Red Shift and the Silver Surfer, where the others (all fire based I'm obliged to point out) can't do the same things that they could. Granted, none of them can do the same things at the next. But you're correct, the sheer magnitude of Fire-Lords power is nowhere what it SHOULD be.

 

[1987olds442]

So, i've been reading Annihilation, and finally managed to set some time aside to look over that "Nova Corps Files", and kind of did a double take...

Under the entry for "Talos The Untamed", it claims this guy "once humbled Earth's Hulk in battle"... ok, fine and well. The Hulk's been beaten before, no biggie.

However, it goes on to say "the battle ended with The Hulk begging for his life"....

HUH?


I've never seen this issue before (ive only begun reading the book full time again since PAD left with Pak's recent revival...


He may have lost, but the Incredible Hulk doesnt beg.

Can anyone give me anymore info on this?

Actually this is true and I'm surprised that they remembered this actually took place. The Professor Hulk took a dive to restore Talos dignity and pretended that Talos bested him. This took place in Incredible Hulk 419 vol. 2 below is a link to the story.

http://www.leaderslair.com/noexcuses/hulk2-419.html

 

[Whirlysplat]

So, i've been reading Annihilation, and finally managed to set some time aside to look over that "Nova Corps Files", and kind of did a double take...

Under the entry for "Talos The Untamed", it claims this guy "once humbled Earth's Hulk in battle"... ok, fine and well. The Hulk's been beaten before, no biggie.

However, it goes on to say "the battle ended with The Hulk begging for his life"....

HUH?


I've never seen this issue before (ive only begun reading the book full time again since PAD left with Pak's recent revival...


He may have lost, but the Incredible Hulk doesnt beg.

Can anyone give me anymore info on this?

It was an act. Can't remember all the details but it was after Ricks wedding I think.


- Whirly