"The Invisible Hand" Discussion Thread

How do you rate this episode?

  • Awesome! I really enjoyed Rhino!

  • Nice!

  • That's not bad.

  • Lame!

  • Most suck episode, I hate this show!


Results are only viewable after voting.
Did anybody notice Captain Stacy in front of the Daily Bugle? I mean it really did look like him.

I did, but Spider-Man called him "Detective", not "Captain", so either he's not police captain yet or Spidey doesn't know who he is and assumed he was just a detective. (I find the second option hard to believe since he and Gwen seemed to be longtime friends and he should have met her father at least once.)
 
Yea everyone at the formal is going to be shocked once peter enters with MJ.
 
Anyone think that Gwen's appearance is about to change drastically in the next few episodes. Glasses, hair, clothes etc.
 
Foswell played the role. He even said something along the lines of telling Peter that he believes someone else is the BigMan. All I could think to myself was " yeah it's you."
Yea that is what i really hope is going to happen. No need to have tombstone be big man when u got big man in the dam show. Its different then the shocker situtation were they didnt include herman schultz and made montana shocker instead it worked there but it not needed this time.
 
It's the truth MJ one Hot Redhead looking bombshell, Liz Allen didn't stand out , Gwen Looks like freaking Debra Whitman & Betty didn't have enough spice to her .

MJ Owned them all .:cwink:
I agree that she looks good, but she's also a cartoon character, which seems kind of weird to think like that, sometimes.
 
Okay, first off... I never thought I would ever enjoy a Rhino episode that much. Rhino is a bug, dumb thug and those are usually not my favorite villains. Far from it. But this had to be the best fight scene they've done yet, even topping the Lizard subway battle. I loved how Spidey used his brain to defeat the Rhino. Steam, that clever.

While I'm on the subject of the Rhino, props to Clancy Brown. He's always been one of my favorite voice actors, whether he's playing Hakon, Wolf, Lex Luthor, Gorrath, or whoever. The man is very talented, and brought a real sense of menace to that Big Dumb Thug.

Big Man's identity was a surprise, but honestly, I am not entirely convinced. First off, Tombstone is a badass. But my eyebrow raised as soon as I heard Osborn refer to him as "Mr. Lincoln." This is not me being a comic book purist, far from it. If it is him, I'll be very happy with the decision. While it was fun in the 60s, a journalist leading a double life as a crime lord just doesn't seem like it would fly today. Why would a crime lord need that cover? That's what money and lawyers are for. But Foswell certainly seemed to know a lot about the Big Man... curious. I am expecting another twist here. But the Spidey/Tombstone scene was terrific, and damn, this series is beginning to get epic.

Norman Osborn is being paid to manufacture supervillains as well as imprison them. He's got quite the racket going on there. Good for him. But now that Hammerhead is threatening him, well... Norman obviously won't take that lying down, which makes a great lead in for the next episode, considering who the villain there is supposed to be.

Now, let's swing back to Peter's personal life.

Aunt May is an evil mastermind. So very manipulative. I loved it. Though I will admit, even knowing who was coming, I was kinda rooting for Peter and Betty. But, that all faded as soon as Peter opened the front door and who do we see? Mary Jane Watson, and we get that famous line... "face it tiger, you just hit the jackpot." As a long time fan, this pleased me. I am definitely in the camp that agrees that Mary Jane is Peter's one true love, but even there it annoys me how in most modern re-tellings, Mary Jane has been Peter's "It Girl" since they were toddlers. The movies did it, "Ultimate Spider-Man" did it, and it's refreshing to see the classic version here on screen.

It does make me wonder if Mary Jane fought with her Aunt Anna about meeting Peter Parker. "Their aunts are setting them up, this can't be good." Then again, in the comics, she knew Peter was Spider-Man before they ever met... she saw Spider-Man crawl out of Peter's window the night Uncle Ben died. Should be interesting to see if "Spectacular Spider-Man" follows this story or not.

I eagerly anticipate seeing Flash Thompson dressed as a cheerleader. BTW, Josh LeBarr as Flash cracks me up.
 
Anyone think that Gwen's appearance is about to change drastically in the next few episodes. Glasses, hair, clothes etc.
Possible man, maybe she is jeasouly of peter with her and think's if she looks/act like MJ that is what peter is attrached to and have him notice her in a more romantic way.
 
It's the truth MJ one Hot Redhead looking bombshell, Liz Allen didn't stand out , Gwen Looks like freaking Debra Whitman & Betty didn't have enough spice to her .

MJ Owned them all .:cwink:
QFT!
Yea everyone at the formal is going to be shocked once peter enters with MJ.
I can't wait to see the look on Flash's face when he finds out Pete's with MJ.





121156-mary-jane_400.jpg

They even had Peter to the left of the screen with his mouth open when MJ delivered her line (as shown above), a nice homage.
 
It does make me wonder if Mary Jane fought with her Aunt Anna about meeting Peter Parker. "Their aunts are setting them up, this can't be good." Then again, in the comics, she knew Peter was Spider-Man before they ever met... she saw Spider-Man crawl out of Peter's window the night Uncle Ben died. Should be interesting to see if "Spectacular Spider-Man" follows this story or not.

I bet that's the route their heading . :cwink:
 
First of all I think Gwen is going to be pissed off, since Pete lied about not going to the dance. Then she will get jealous and try to change for him.
 
I bet that's the route their heading . :cwink:

The best thing is that it hasn't been done in other media before, so anyone who hasn't read the comics (or frequently reads discussion threads like this one) will be surprised with this twist.
 
The ending to this episode was so perfect! Finally, that classic panel of ASM #42 done right!
 
I agree that she looks good, but she's also a cartoon character, which seems kind of weird to think like that, sometimes.

Hey it was the same reaction a lot of fans had for Superman : The Animated Series Lois Lane . And Batman : The Animated Series Poison Ivy, Catwoman Harley Quinn & Batgirl .
 
First of all I think Gwen is going to be pissed off, since Pete lied about not going to the dance. Then she will get jealous and try to change for him.

Screw Gwen , MJ's here, and Felicia Hardy on her way .Gwen/Debra can move to the backstage .

The blonde Cheerleader we saw in the pilot episode looked more like Gwen Stacy than this girl called Gwen Stacy .
 
I know. I'm not complaining about it.
This is a response to your post before, about cartoon girls.
 
Screw Gwen , MJ's here, Gwen or Debra can move to the backstage .

The blonde Cheerleader we saw in the pilot episode looked more like Gwen Stacy than this girl called Gwen Stacy .

Don't be dissing Gwen. :cmad:
 
Screw Gwen , MJ's here, and Felicia Hardy on her way .Gwen/Debra can move to the backstage .

The blonde Cheerleader we saw in the pilot episode looked more like Gwen Stacy than this girl called Gwen Stacy .
I got a feeling Gwen's look will be changing soon.
 
I like this Gwen. she's just so cute.
 
After a drought of a fortnight (and Kid's WB figuring Spidey is a good show to replace the canceled LEGION OF SUPERHEROES for now), "The Invisible Hand" debuts and pretty much does more of what the show has been doing well so far. We get another new villain, this time in the Rhino, but as it builds from prior events, the show ignores the "villain of the week" formula that so many cartoons, even good ones, have in their first season. Prior events are brought up in future episodes. Subplots are established and embellished. And that allows things to come to a head, as this episode does in the last 5 minutes.

The Rhino debuted in ASM #41 but he didn't put a major horn-print in animation until the 90's series, when he debuted during the Black Symbiote 3-parter in Season One. His design was simple, but like all of the designs of the 90's show, too detailed and thus would be complicated when the animation budget withered every season. He also had zero backstory or fleshing; he was simply yet another goon hired by the Kingpin. But since that time, the Rhino has popped up in a gazillion Spidey and other Marvel hero comics to provide an obligatory action sequence. He's shown up in various video games and whatnot. So naturally the SS-M crew included Alex O'Hirn into the show at the very beginning, as Flint Marko's partner in burglary. Being that the Big Man & Hammerhead have made a deal with Norman Osborn, their minions are becoming super-villains to allow his normal criminal goons to escape Spider-Man's notice, which is a good explanation for the villains (although, yes, as some people noted, Mark Millar retconned it in first via MKSM).

Unlike Sandman, who was created via accident (in a way), this time Otto Octavious' experiment goes as planned. Alex is encased in a synthetic suit of night-invulnerable material and outfitted with a rhino motif because...well, Otto is a bit weird. He uses those tentacles, after all, doesn't he? There is concern for Alex's health in Otto's questions, but Norman & Hammerhead urge him to proceed, so he does. Alex, being the dumber of the pair of burglars, is too eager to become a powerhouse without any regard to the consequences. Clancy Brown voices the rogue and provides a voice different than his Luthor or Mr. Freeze voices, and it naturally works very well.

Spider-Man, meanwhile, is able to apprehend some normal criminal goons for once, although J.J. is none too impressed with photos of normal crooks now that exotic crooks are about. Peter still seems oblivious to Gwen's feelings about him as he continues to ask Betty to the prom, and it is revealed that she is "4 years older" than he is, which would put her at 20. On the other end, Brock, a college freshman at 18, decides to ask Gwen (who should be a sophmore at 16 like Peter & Harry) to the dance himself. The original comic introduced the concept of age differences right off the bat, as it was known that Betty was older than Peter was at the time, but dated him for a while anyway. It is good that the SS-M crew was able to introduce this into a network TV show, as networks can sometimes be "all action, no mushy stuff" sometimes. Aunt May, concerned about Peter's tastes in women (especially older women), ends up throwing a monkey wrench into things to fulfill her master scheme to get Peter to go out with "Aunt Anna's niece who has a nice personality".

Peter's head gets inflated when Betty seems to be "waring down" to going to the dance with him, even bragging to Flash of all people. But it is when May & Betty are at the wrong place at the wrong time that things get cookin'. Rhino stalks out the Daily Bugle looking for Peter Parker, who always gets Spidey's snaps. For a dullard, the plan isn't a bad one, but naturally once Spider-Man shows up, Rhino is all about the smashing. His design is extreme and bulky, yet simple enough to move well, like most of the designs here. He reminded me a bit of how Juggernaut is presented in cartoons; an unstoppable force that cannot be overcome physically, only delayed or annoyed. Rhino shrugs off attacks, webs, cars, even bowling balls. And that is how it should be; Rhino's entire schtick is being the strongest (or at least one of the strongest) rogues in Spidey's A-List gallery, so why not really flaunt it? Spider-Man takes a pounding, getting smashed through buildings and walls like a rag-doll, to the point where you go, "Uh oh" every time Rhino gets a hand on him.

I've read so many Rhino fights that I lose track of them, but in this episode, Rhino's Achilles Heel is that he gets overheated very quickly and can only sweat through his face, which means he needs to drink water and cool off after a while or face exhaustion. I thought this was realistic and quite clever, although how Rhino relieves himself is still an unsolved mystery. Spidey lures Rhino into the steam pipes of the sewers and overheats him quickly; your brains vs. brawn triumph, like many of Spidey's better victories.

But just when you think the episode is ending, the final act has some of the highlights, as if it was easy topping the Rhino struggle. Spider-Man now has a name to go with the Big Man, "Mr. Lincoln", and he asks Fred Foswell at the Bugle about it. In the comics, naturally, Foswell was the Big Man, but here we have another "merging" of characters, not unlike Montana and Shocker. Lonnie Lincoln is an albino with weird teeth, who has a bad rep but makes up for it with philanthropy. As the character would say later, he is actually called Tombstone. Yes, that means Big Man and Tombstone are being merged into one character. I think I had more concerns about Montana/Shocker because that meant making Shocker a hillbilly, but this one works better. Or maybe I happen to think so because I liked Tombstone as one of Spidey's better B or C level rogues, a good gangster type to give Hammerhead a rest and to replace Kingpin, who by then had been on permanent loan to the Daredevil franchise. As a kid I thought he was kind of creepy. So, to get the aliases straight, the guy's real name is L. Lincoln. He commands the underworld under the name Big Man with Hammerhead as a go-between. But his old 'hood nickname was Tombstone because of his appearance and nature. Got it? He pummels Spidey, gives him an offer he can't refuse, and then when Spidey does anyway, forces the web-slinger to flee from the cops.

The Big Man replacing Kingpin as the show's #1 mobster was always an excellent move to me, considering that he pre-dated Kingpin by years anyway. My concern was always about his design, as Ditko's design was...well, a bit too colorful for a modern mob figure. Of course you do have to suspend belief that someone as deformed looking as Tombstone would be able to fool anyone in the media that he wasn't a bad guy at heart (despite his rep), but it gets nitpicky to mull over details like that and then accept things like web-shooters, radioactive bugs or synthetic Rhino armor. While I am not sure the "merge" of Shocker & Montana did anything besides keep things convenient and flowing (which is always fine by me, if done well), this merger has the end result of this show perhaps creating the best version of Tombstone out there. In the comics (and the 90's show) he was often a brash thug, but here he is a thinking's man's criminal. Exposing him will take some skill or luck. While it is great that the show's writers and creators are doing so well to homage the foundation of the Spider-verse with the Lee/Ditko/Romita era, there were other good eras and characters too, and it is good that they are merging them all and trying to do things well. So far they're pulling up aces.

And that isn't even the half of it. Yes, Peter does go to the dance with a date, and we get animation's second stab at the "Face it Tiger" scene, as well as the first appearance of Mary Jane Watson. The 90's show did it by Episode #4, RETURN OF THE SPIDER-SLAYERS, and MJ had a more Romita-esque design than SS-M's MJ does. For my money, no artist over all these years has ever improved upon Romita Sr.'s design for her, and few can even match it. The closest animation got was Angelica Jones from SPIDER-FRIENDS, who is a dead ringer for Romita's MJ. But I think I liked this show's approach better. Firstly, the voice actress for MJ sounded better even with just one line; Sara Ballantine from the 90's kept sounding like a 12 year old, and they were supposed to be college aged. Secondly, the situation was built up better, and I thought the situation worked better, with May shoving Peter out the door to his dance the second before (practically). And thirdly, this show has a better version of Peter Parker than the 90's did. The 90's Parker was too hunky looking, too Nicholas Hammond-esque. And finally, no purple pants on either of them (MJ had purple pants in the 90's show, and Peter had 'em in the MTV show from 2003). Seriously, only the Hulk can make those pants work.

So while this is Cheeks Galloway's MJ, that was a minor detail really. She still looked cute, at least compared to the more bookwormish looking Gwen (least to some people). Let the love triangle commence! I just hope Gwen isn't immediately hung up on Brock for the entire show, much as Felicia spent endless episodes in the 90's show attached to Morbius, even after Morbius went from jerk to tragic villain to arrogant jerk villain. I know I mention and compare this show to the 90's show a lot, but THAT show was the show of my childhood, and the show whose shadow SS-M will have to overcome to be considered better. Neither SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED or MTV SPIDER-MAN came close. This show, however, may have the 90's S-M:TAS' number.

Watching this and then taped TMNT's Lost Episodes, Saturday mornings are a joy again.
 
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