"The Invisible Hand" Discussion Thread

How do you rate this episode?

  • Awesome! I really enjoyed Rhino!

  • Nice!

  • That's not bad.

  • Lame!

  • Most suck episode, I hate this show!

Results are only viewable after voting.
*Head explodes after wall-o-text*

Seriously though, I agree. I haven't felt this buzz regarding Spidey for a long time. I think the last time was when the first film came out in theaters. Besides that, there hasn't been much to be hyped about. Saturday mornings, even less. Weekend cartoons are not what they used to be. This might change all of that, and for a cartoon that initially had me worried when I saw those first few stills of art we got that's quite a reversal in itself.
 
Dread said:
After a drought of a fortnight (and Kid's WB figuring Spidey is a good show to replace the canceled LEGION OF SUPERHEROES for now), "The Invisible Hand" debuts and pretty much does more of what the show has been doing well so far. We get another new villain, this time in the Rhino, but as it builds from prior events, the show ignores the "villain of the week" formula that so many cartoons, even good ones, have in their first season. Prior events are brought up in future episodes. Subplots are established and embellished. And that allows things to come to a head, as this episode does in the last 5 minutes.

The Rhino debuted in ASM #41 but he didn't put a major horn-print in animation until the 90's series, when he debuted during the Black Symbiote 3-parter in Season One. His design was simple, but like all of the designs of the 90's show, too detailed and thus would be complicated when the animation budget withered every season. He also had zero backstory or fleshing; he was simply yet another goon hired by the Kingpin. But since that time, the Rhino has popped up in a gazillion Spidey and other Marvel hero comics to provide an obligatory action sequence. He's shown up in various video games and whatnot. So naturally the SS-M crew included Alex O'Hirn into the show at the very beginning, as Flint Marko's partner in burglary. Being that the Big Man & Hammerhead have made a deal with Norman Osborn, their minions are becoming super-villains to allow his normal criminal goons to escape Spider-Man's notice, which is a good explanation for the villains (although, yes, as some people noted, Mark Millar retconned it in first via MKSM).

Unlike Sandman, who was created via accident (in a way), this time Otto Octavious' experiment goes as planned. Alex is encased in a synthetic suit of night-invulnerable material and outfitted with a rhino motif because...well, Otto is a bit weird. He uses those tentacles, after all, doesn't he? There is concern for Alex's health in Otto's questions, but Norman & Hammerhead urge him to proceed, so he does. Alex, being the dumber of the pair of burglars, is too eager to become a powerhouse without any regard to the consequences. Clancy Brown voices the rogue and provides a voice different than his Luthor or Mr. Freeze voices, and it naturally works very well.

Spider-Man, meanwhile, is able to apprehend some normal criminal goons for once, although J.J. is none too impressed with photos of normal crooks now that exotic crooks are about. Peter still seems oblivious to Gwen's feelings about him as he continues to ask Betty to the prom, and it is revealed that she is "4 years older" than he is, which would put her at 20. On the other end, Brock, a college freshman at 18, decides to ask Gwen (who should be a sophmore at 16 like Peter & Harry) to the dance himself. The original comic introduced the concept of age differences right off the bat, as it was known that Betty was older than Peter was at the time, but dated him for a while anyway. It is good that the SS-M crew was able to introduce this into a network TV show, as networks can sometimes be "all action, no mushy stuff" sometimes. Aunt May, concerned about Peter's tastes in women (especially older women), ends up throwing a monkey wrench into things to fulfill her master scheme to get Peter to go out with "Aunt Anna's niece who has a nice personality".

Peter's head gets inflated when Betty seems to be "waring down" to going to the dance with him, even bragging to Flash of all people. But it is when May & Betty are at the wrong place at the wrong time that things get cookin'. Rhino stalks out the Daily Bugle looking for Peter Parker, who always gets Spidey's snaps. For a dullard, the plan isn't a bad one, but naturally once Spider-Man shows up, Rhino is all about the smashing. His design is extreme and bulky, yet simple enough to move well, like most of the designs here. He reminded me a bit of how Juggernaut is presented in cartoons; an unstoppable force that cannot be overcome physically, only delayed or annoyed. Rhino shrugs off attacks, webs, cars, even bowling balls. And that is how it should be; Rhino's entire schtick is being the strongest (or at least one of the strongest) rogues in Spidey's A-List gallery, so why not really flaunt it? Spider-Man takes a pounding, getting smashed through buildings and walls like a rag-doll, to the point where you go, "Uh oh" every time Rhino gets a hand on him.

I've read so many Rhino fights that I lose track of them, but in this episode, Rhino's Achilles Heel is that he gets overheated very quickly and can only sweat through his face, which means he needs to drink water and cool off after a while or face exhaustion. I thought this was realistic and quite clever, although how Rhino relieves himself is still an unsolved mystery. Spidey lures Rhino into the steam pipes of the sewers and overheats him quickly; your brains vs. brawn triumph, like many of Spidey's better victories.

But just when you think the episode is ending, the final act has some of the highlights, as if it was easy topping the Rhino struggle. Spider-Man now has a name to go with the Big Man, "Mr. Lincoln", and he asks Fred Foswell at the Bugle about it. In the comics, naturally, Foswell was the Big Man, but here we have another "merging" of characters, not unlike Montana and Shocker. Lonnie Lincoln is an albino with weird teeth, who has a bad rep but makes up for it with philanthropy. As the character would say later, he is actually called Tombstone. Yes, that means Big Man and Tombstone are being merged into one character. I think I had more concerns about Montana/Shocker because that meant making Shocker a hillbilly, but this one works better. Or maybe I happen to think so because I liked Tombstone as one of Spidey's better B or C level rogues, a good gangster type to give Hammerhead a rest and to replace Kingpin, who by then had been on permanent loan to the Daredevil franchise. As a kid I thought he was kind of creepy. So, to get the aliases straight, the guy's real name is L. Lincoln. He commands the underworld under the name Big Man with Hammerhead as a go-between. But his old 'hood nickname was Tombstone because of his appearance and nature. Got it? He pummels Spidey, gives him an offer he can't refuse, and then when Spidey does anyway, forces the web-slinger to flee from the cops.

The Big Man replacing Kingpin as the show's #1 mobster was always an excellent move to me, considering that he pre-dated Kingpin by years anyway. My concern was always about his design, as Ditko's design was...well, a bit too colorful for a modern mob figure. Of course you do have to suspend belief that someone as deformed looking as Tombstone would be able to fool anyone in the media that he wasn't a bad guy at heart (despite his rep), but it gets nitpicky to mull over details like that and then accept things like web-shooters, radioactive bugs or synthetic Rhino armor. While I am not sure the "merge" of Shocker & Montana did anything besides keep things convenient and flowing (which is always fine by me, if done well), this merger has the end result of this show perhaps creating the best version of Tombstone out there. In the comics (and the 90's show) he was often a brash thug, but here he is a thinking's man's criminal. Exposing him will take some skill or luck. While it is great that the show's writers and creators are doing so well to homage the foundation of the Spider-verse with the Lee/Ditko/Romita era, there were other good eras and characters too, and it is good that they are merging them all and trying to do things well. So far they're pulling up aces.

And that isn't even the half of it. Yes, Peter does go to the dance with a date, and we get animation's second stab at the "Face it Tiger" scene, as well as the first appearance of Mary Jane Watson. The 90's show did it by Episode #4, RETURN OF THE SPIDER-SLAYERS, and MJ had a more Romita-esque design than SS-M's MJ does. For my money, no artist over all these years has ever improved upon Romita Sr.'s design for her, and few can even match it. The closest animation got was Angelica Jones from SPIDER-FRIENDS, who is a dead ringer for Romita's MJ. But I think I liked this show's approach better. Firstly, the voice actress for MJ sounded better even with just one line; Sara Ballantine from the 90's kept sounding like a 12 year old, and they were supposed to be college aged. Secondly, the situation was built up better, and I thought the situation worked better, with May shoving Peter out the door to his dance the second before (practically). And thirdly, this show has a better version of Peter Parker than the 90's did. The 90's Parker was too hunky looking, too Nicholas Hammond-esque. And finally, no purple pants on either of them (MJ had purple pants in the 90's show, and Peter had 'em in the MTV show from 2003). Seriously, only the Hulk can make those pants work.

So while this is Cheeks Galloway's MJ, that was a minor detail really. She still looked cute, at least compared to the more bookwormish looking Gwen (least to some people). Let the love triangle commence! I just hope Gwen isn't immediately hung up on Brock for the entire show, much as Felicia spent endless episodes in the 90's show attached to Morbius, even after Morbius went from jerk to tragic villain to arrogant jerk villain. I know I mention and compare this show to the 90's show a lot, but THAT show was the show of my childhood, and the show whose shadow SS-M will have to overcome to be considered better. Neither SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED or MTV SPIDER-MAN came close. This show, however, may have the 90's S-M:TAS' number.

Watching this and then taped TMNT's Lost Episodes, Saturday mornings are a joy again.
Click to expand...
Yet another awesome review, Dread. I liked the part about the purple pants.
 
His insanity is supposed to be progressive, so I imagine that something's going to go wrong between Brock and Gwen before he encounters the symbiote. I wouldn't be surprised if Peter's confrontation with the Goblin spills into his personal life yet again and causes another issue with Eddie.
 
The Rhino was awesome,love the whole thing about him getting too hot and sweaty to move.Isn't Rhino's face just a regular face,why doesn't spidey just punch him and knock him out then?

I really hope that the people who make SM4 take notes on how amazing this show does with 20 minute episodes that gives us tons of action,lots of characters with lots of character development,connections with characters and stories,spidey jokes,more than one villain in an episode without it being too crowded or the character not being fleshed out.
 
Web-Head said:
QFT!

I can't wait to see the look on Flash's face when he finds out Pete's with MJ.





121156-mary-jane_400.jpg

They even had Peter to the left of the screen with his mouth open when MJ delivered her line (as shown above), a nice homage.
Click to expand...
Agreed, he's going to be so shocked. :woot::up:
 
Pay attention to this show? Raimi's too busy reliving the 70's to do that.
 
Web-Head said:
QFT!

I can't wait to see the look on Flash's face when he finds out Pete's with MJ.





121156-mary-jane_400.jpg

They even had Peter to the left of the screen with his mouth open when MJ delivered her line (as shown above), a nice homage.
Click to expand...

WORD . Somebody please get some screen caps of that scene and if possible get some Gifs too.
 
I thought the web-heart at the end was a good touch.
 
Yea is there? I missed there first 2 mins :(
 
Man, this show is so well written, it's crazy. They managed to pack in the revelation of Tombstone, the deepening of the Big Man story, the Rhino plot, Peter and Betty, Norman vs. the Big Man's Group, Mary Jane's revelation......all in one episode. And it all works, BIG TIME.

Spectacular Spider-Man > Everything Else
 
Dread said:
After a drought of a fortnight (and Kid's WB figuring Spidey is a good show to replace the canceled LEGION OF SUPERHEROES for now), "The Invisible Hand" debuts and pretty much does more of what the show has been doing well so far. We get another new villain, this time in the Rhino, but as it builds from prior events, the show ignores the "villain of the week" formula that so many cartoons, even good ones, have in their first season. Prior events are brought up in future episodes. Subplots are established and embellished. And that allows things to come to a head, as this episode does in the last 5 minutes.

The Rhino debuted in ASM #41 but he didn't put a major horn-print in animation until the 90's series, when he debuted during the Black Symbiote 3-parter in Season One. His design was simple, but like all of the designs of the 90's show, too detailed and thus would be complicated when the animation budget withered every season. He also had zero backstory or fleshing; he was simply yet another goon hired by the Kingpin. But since that time, the Rhino has popped up in a gazillion Spidey and other Marvel hero comics to provide an obligatory action sequence. He's shown up in various video games and whatnot. So naturally the SS-M crew included Alex O'Hirn into the show at the very beginning, as Flint Marko's partner in burglary. Being that the Big Man & Hammerhead have made a deal with Norman Osborn, their minions are becoming super-villains to allow his normal criminal goons to escape Spider-Man's notice, which is a good explanation for the villains (although, yes, as some people noted, Mark Millar retconned it in first via MKSM).

Unlike Sandman, who was created via accident (in a way), this time Otto Octavious' experiment goes as planned. Alex is encased in a synthetic suit of night-invulnerable material and outfitted with a rhino motif because...well, Otto is a bit weird. He uses those tentacles, after all, doesn't he? There is concern for Alex's health in Otto's questions, but Norman & Hammerhead urge him to proceed, so he does. Alex, being the dumber of the pair of burglars, is too eager to become a powerhouse without any regard to the consequences. Clancy Brown voices the rogue and provides a voice different than his Luthor or Mr. Freeze voices, and it naturally works very well.

Spider-Man, meanwhile, is able to apprehend some normal criminal goons for once, although J.J. is none too impressed with photos of normal crooks now that exotic crooks are about. Peter still seems oblivious to Gwen's feelings about him as he continues to ask Betty to the prom, and it is revealed that she is "4 years older" than he is, which would put her at 20. On the other end, Brock, a college freshman at 18, decides to ask Gwen (who should be a sophmore at 16 like Peter & Harry) to the dance himself. The original comic introduced the concept of age differences right off the bat, as it was known that Betty was older than Peter was at the time, but dated him for a while anyway. It is good that the SS-M crew was able to introduce this into a network TV show, as networks can sometimes be "all action, no mushy stuff" sometimes. Aunt May, concerned about Peter's tastes in women (especially older women), ends up throwing a monkey wrench into things to fulfill her master scheme to get Peter to go out with "Aunt Anna's niece who has a nice personality".

Peter's head gets inflated when Betty seems to be "waring down" to going to the dance with him, even bragging to Flash of all people. But it is when May & Betty are at the wrong place at the wrong time that things get cookin'. Rhino stalks out the Daily Bugle looking for Peter Parker, who always gets Spidey's snaps. For a dullard, the plan isn't a bad one, but naturally once Spider-Man shows up, Rhino is all about the smashing. His design is extreme and bulky, yet simple enough to move well, like most of the designs here. He reminded me a bit of how Juggernaut is presented in cartoons; an unstoppable force that cannot be overcome physically, only delayed or annoyed. Rhino shrugs off attacks, webs, cars, even bowling balls. And that is how it should be; Rhino's entire schtick is being the strongest (or at least one of the strongest) rogues in Spidey's A-List gallery, so why not really flaunt it? Spider-Man takes a pounding, getting smashed through buildings and walls like a rag-doll, to the point where you go, "Uh oh" every time Rhino gets a hand on him.

I've read so many Rhino fights that I lose track of them, but in this episode, Rhino's Achilles Heel is that he gets overheated very quickly and can only sweat through his face, which means he needs to drink water and cool off after a while or face exhaustion. I thought this was realistic and quite clever, although how Rhino relieves himself is still an unsolved mystery. Spidey lures Rhino into the steam pipes of the sewers and overheats him quickly; your brains vs. brawn triumph, like many of Spidey's better victories.

But just when you think the episode is ending, the final act has some of the highlights, as if it was easy topping the Rhino struggle. Spider-Man now has a name to go with the Big Man, "Mr. Lincoln", and he asks Fred Foswell at the Bugle about it. In the comics, naturally, Foswell was the Big Man, but here we have another "merging" of characters, not unlike Montana and Shocker. Lonnie Lincoln is an albino with weird teeth, who has a bad rep but makes up for it with philanthropy. As the character would say later, he is actually called Tombstone. Yes, that means Big Man and Tombstone are being merged into one character. I think I had more concerns about Montana/Shocker because that meant making Shocker a hillbilly, but this one works better. Or maybe I happen to think so because I liked Tombstone as one of Spidey's better B or C level rogues, a good gangster type to give Hammerhead a rest and to replace Kingpin, who by then had been on permanent loan to the Daredevil franchise. As a kid I thought he was kind of creepy. So, to get the aliases straight, the guy's real name is L. Lincoln. He commands the underworld under the name Big Man with Hammerhead as a go-between. But his old 'hood nickname was Tombstone because of his appearance and nature. Got it? He pummels Spidey, gives him an offer he can't refuse, and then when Spidey does anyway, forces the web-slinger to flee from the cops.

The Big Man replacing Kingpin as the show's #1 mobster was always an excellent move to me, considering that he pre-dated Kingpin by years anyway. My concern was always about his design, as Ditko's design was...well, a bit too colorful for a modern mob figure. Of course you do have to suspend belief that someone as deformed looking as Tombstone would be able to fool anyone in the media that he wasn't a bad guy at heart (despite his rep), but it gets nitpicky to mull over details like that and then accept things like web-shooters, radioactive bugs or synthetic Rhino armor. While I am not sure the "merge" of Shocker & Montana did anything besides keep things convenient and flowing (which is always fine by me, if done well), this merger has the end result of this show perhaps creating the best version of Tombstone out there. In the comics (and the 90's show) he was often a brash thug, but here he is a thinking's man's criminal. Exposing him will take some skill or luck. While it is great that the show's writers and creators are doing so well to homage the foundation of the Spider-verse with the Lee/Ditko/Romita era, there were other good eras and characters too, and it is good that they are merging them all and trying to do things well. So far they're pulling up aces.

And that isn't even the half of it. Yes, Peter does go to the dance with a date, and we get animation's second stab at the "Face it Tiger" scene, as well as the first appearance of Mary Jane Watson. The 90's show did it by Episode #4, RETURN OF THE SPIDER-SLAYERS, and MJ had a more Romita-esque design than SS-M's MJ does. For my money, no artist over all these years has ever improved upon Romita Sr.'s design for her, and few can even match it. The closest animation got was Angelica Jones from SPIDER-FRIENDS, who is a dead ringer for Romita's MJ. But I think I liked this show's approach better. Firstly, the voice actress for MJ sounded better even with just one line; Sara Ballantine from the 90's kept sounding like a 12 year old, and they were supposed to be college aged. Secondly, the situation was built up better, and I thought the situation worked better, with May shoving Peter out the door to his dance the second before (practically). And thirdly, this show has a better version of Peter Parker than the 90's did. The 90's Parker was too hunky looking, too Nicholas Hammond-esque. And finally, no purple pants on either of them (MJ had purple pants in the 90's show, and Peter had 'em in the MTV show from 2003). Seriously, only the Hulk can make those pants work.

So while this is Cheeks Galloway's MJ, that was a minor detail really. She still looked cute, at least compared to the more bookwormish looking Gwen (least to some people). Let the love triangle commence! I just hope Gwen isn't immediately hung up on Brock for the entire show, much as Felicia spent endless episodes in the 90's show attached to Morbius, even after Morbius went from jerk to tragic villain to arrogant jerk villain. I know I mention and compare this show to the 90's show a lot, but THAT show was the show of my childhood, and the show whose shadow SS-M will have to overcome to be considered better. Neither SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED or MTV SPIDER-MAN came close. This show, however, may have the 90's S-M:TAS' number.

Watching this and then taped TMNT's Lost Episodes, Saturday mornings are a joy again.
Click to expand...
Great review dread. I love reading your reviews. I am still hoping it is just a twist and we are lead to believe tombstone is big man and it ends up being Foswell instead like it should be. I stated this in this thread and the next episode thread it defeats the purpose of having foswell be in the show if he is just a dam reporter and nothing else when they could have easily just used one of the many other bugle reporters from the comics. Why bother putting foswell in the show if u arent using him for big man right?
 
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