The Iran Thread

[Addendum]

Let the Iranian's handle it. If the protesters ask for the US' help, then the US should act accordingly.

 

[voyzovrezon]

The Iranian Soccer Team has had their passports revoked. They are exiled.

 

[Addendum]

Where will they play while try to get to the first round of the World Cup?

 

[voyzovrezon]

Now the Iranian government is broadcasting "confessions" by its citizens saying they robbed people in the "riots" and played for the cameras, such as the BBC. In other words, citizens are "confessing" that they staged protests for the mere entertainment of the west.

 

[StorminNorman]

If my family was being threatened with death, I probably would too.

 

[BlackestNight]

Now the Iranian government is broadcasting "confessions" by its citizens saying they robbed people in the "riots" and played for the cameras, such as the BBC. In other words, citizens are "confessing" that they staged protests for the mere entertainment of the west.

 

[Kelly]

Those people are scared.....I have a feeling that their families were probably threatened, and that is why they are making these confessions.

 

[Marx]

Now the Iranian government is broadcasting "confessions" by its citizens saying they robbed people in the "riots" and played for the cameras, such as the BBC. In other words, citizens are "confessing" that they staged protests for the mere entertainment of the west.

If my family was being threatened with death, I probably would too.

Exactly Norm.

 

[BestGirl]

Let the Iranian's handle it. If the protesters ask for the US' help, then the US should act accordingly.

And as far as I know, Mousavi hasn't asked for our help.

Iranians have a recent history of being dominated by foreign powers and they're still touchy about it. Our intervention would do more harm than good, and probably just undermine Mousavi's popularity and give ammunition to his enemies.

On the plus side, even if Mousavi doesn't succeed, Ahmadinejad and the regime in general is going to be very shaky. It'll be very interesting to see what happens.

 

[StorminNorman]

I have only advocated American intervention if Mousavi asks for it.

 

[Superman]

I have only advocated American intervention if Mousavi asks for it.

That's never going to happen. Mousavi would lose ALL creditability with his supporters if he did that. He'd be seen as just another puppet of the West like the Shah of Iran was. That's the last thing the people of Iran want.

 

[Malice]

I don’t know about you, but over the last weekend, I was completely taken by the events that were/are occuring in Iran.

Here is my take on the situation as it relates to us. Iran is the key. Iran is one of the few financial powerhouses as well as political powerhouses in the region. Their attitude is spread thru the people of other nations as well as non-national groups (such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, etc)

If a slightly more pro-western government in Iran took hold…Now, dont mis-understand, I am not saying a group propped up in Iran by the US or the west, I am saying a government, that is simply more friendly to the West and the West’s attitude/policies/religions, things will change fundamentally in the Middle East.

President Obama put out a stronger tone yesterday to the Iranian government to try to get them to lessen the crackdown and listen to the protesters complaints. I have agreed to this point with Obama’s approach to handling the situation. Not to get involved, not to even really verbally get involved, stay in the middle, while talking down on the crackdown (ever so slightly). I know…I know…this is playing the middle of the road. This also, cannot be done for long.

Eventually a stance needs to be taken by the President for the United States on principle cannot sit by and let this overly violent crackdown continue.

In other words, if I am reading the tone of the people in Iran correctly, WE WANT THEM TO WIN.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I don't care who the Iranian people put in power, as long as they do it and it is not forced by a corrupt, tyrannical system.

I am not trying to paint either Mousavi or Rafsanjani as great guys or tremendous leaders of symbols of a glorious revolution. What I am saying is that the Iranian people have the right to the government of their choosing.

America should not be about changing the Iranian government, it should be about protecting the rights of the Iranian people and their voice in their government. We cannot sit by and watch innocent Iranian's killed for simply standing up against their tyrannical government.

I understand your point but the only reason that Mousavi was voted for is he represented the only alternative choice the establishment would allow. He is part of the establishment himself. The elections is not free and rarely offers much of a choice. Ahmendijad got first elected because the other choice was Rahfsanjani who everybody knew to be very corrupt.

As I said before unless there is a full revolutioon witha true leader, nothing will happen and currently there is no real outside of the current establishment leader leading this movement and I am getting indications that the information I heard the other day was a fallacy and that it was forced because the people were very afraid.

It is currently a state of terror.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I personally think nothing will come of this or at least nothing beneficial for Iran. The country has gone to hell because people believed a lowly autocratic cleric would bring democracy.

 

[Malice]

I personally think nothing will come of this or at least nothing beneficial for Iran. The country has gone to hell because people believed a lowly autocratic cleric would bring democracy.

I believe....the crackdown will be successful and the country will be more restricted then before....but the people will remember.

 

[StorminNorman]

That's never going to happen. Mousavi would lose ALL creditability with his supporters if he did that. He'd be seen as just another puppet of the West like the Shah of Iran was. That's the last thing the people of Iran want.

I disagree. Have you seen what is going on? Mousavi has no army, no sort of response. When innocent Iranians are being jailed and killed and what not for simply voicing their opinion - he HAS to try to protect them. Not out of some moral duty, but because he needs them.

Mousavi can ask for American help without advertising it.

America coming in, at this point, would not, in any way, illegitimize the movement.

Also, Obama continuing offering Iranian diplomatic to enter American embassy's on the 4th of July is disgusting and immoral. How can you make any offering to a government that is doing what they are doing?

I understand your point but the only reason that Mousavi was voted for is he represented the only alternative choice the establishment would allow. He is part of the establishment himself. The elections is not free and rarely offers much of a choice. Ahmendijad got first elected because the other choice was Rahfsanjani who everybody knew to be very corrupt.

As I said before unless there is a full revolutioon witha true leader, nothing will happen and currently there is no real outside of the current establishment leader leading this movement and I am getting indications that the information I heard the other day was a fallacy and that it was forced because the people were very afraid.

It is currently a state of terror.

If Mousavi is the people's choice, he should be the people's President. Period.

 

[BestGirl]

Anyone see this? http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2009/06/communication-from-tehran.html

About your question: the situation is very dark unfortunately, however it does not mean that I am totally disappointed. In the lines below I will try to describe our condition...

The extent of brutalities on Bloody Saturday is still unknown to the world and even to the majority of Iranians. People all around the world have seen the scene of Neda Agha Soltan's murder, but many do not know that she has been one of tens of people who were killed brutally after Khamenei's threatenings in his Friday Prayer.

In fact several independent sources in Tehran hospitals and clinical centres have counted the dead from Saturday at over 150; yes more than 150. Doctors have been silenced from speaking about it. In fact when less than a week before (16 June) the doctors and nurses of Rasul Hospital in west Tehran witnessed 8 killed and 28 wounded from the day's demonstration, in their hospital, they came out on the street to inform people.

But on Bloody Saturday, the situation was totally different after Khamenei's command to slaughter demonstrators. I have a report just from one hospital not so far from my living place... In this hospital alone doctors received 20 dead and many other wounded. Security forces went to all the hospitals to which people themselves had brought the bodies, to gather all the wounded and dead; when paramilitary and military forces gathered the bodies, they sent them directly to military hospitals; they transmitted these bodies to their own centres too. In an unbelievable event in the hospital, of which I have a report, security forces have shot and killed the wounded persons before transmitting them. When doctors and nurses bacame mad and went out on the streets, they have opened fire on them too.

Now, we have reports that when families went to collect the bodies of their relatives, security forces have urged them to sign appeals against Mir Hossein Mousavi and named him as responsible for the deaths of their relatives. (The argument: they have participated in a demonstration which was related to Mousavi; the killers are 'unkown' but they will find them among Mousavi's supporters again!)

In the light of this situation, you can find how the society is shocked. However, people have not put resistance aside. Local demonstrations have continued, and at night people go on the roofs to chant slogans; 'Allah-o Akbar', 'Down with the Dictator' and so on. Even at night the Basiji militia go to some doors and threaten people not to chant slogans.

Local strikes have been held too; in Iranian Kurdistan a strike was held yesterday. But in the absence of independent unions, it is hard to organize general strikes.

The coup d'etat regime is using all its means to suppress and exhaust people. The state of terror is trying to dominate. Whether they can win this unequal war against empty-handed people in this period or not, they will not be able to remain a stable regime. This time, they shed the blood of ordinary people who they claim to be their supporters - not just of some political activists.

How horrible if it's true.

 

[Nivek]

where media fails the people of Iran, I hope word of mouth keeps the anger going.

 

[voyzovrezon]

It's becoming another Iraq after the invasion.

 

[StorminNorman]

...okay, I'll bite. How?

How does a group of militant insurgent groups fighting American troops trying to establish democracy and peace in Iraq compare to thousands of protesters taking to the streets and being murdered, beaten and jailed by a tyrannous government?

 

[StorminNorman]

Iranian protester pleads for U.S., world to intervene

An Iranian student protester in Tehran made a passionate plea for help from the world community this morning in a phone call to CNN’s “American Morning.”

For safety reasons, CNN can only identify the student by his first name, Mohammad. He’s been a part of the protests and a target of the violence there. Below is an edited transcript of the interview.

John Roberts: What is the scene like on the streets? Are there more demonstrators out there on the streets? Or is it much quieter than it has been in recent days?

Mohammad: Hello. Actually I participated in Saturday’s demonstrations in parts of Tehran. What I saw, I saw thousands of security officers that tried to break up the crowd. They used canisters and batons and water cannons against us. They attacked us. And we also in response attacked them. We attacked them by throwing stones. And we built trenches in the streets and actually defended too.

Roberts: So there was quite a large confrontation going on there over the weekend. But can you tell us what the scene is like on the streets today?

Mohammad: Today was a long day in Tehran. And yesterday there weren’t any organized rallies in Tehran. Because we take orders from our leader Mr. Karroubi and Mr. Mir Hossein Moussavi. The connections, the communication is very difficult, more than even you can imagine in Tehran. But I myself haven’t received any orders from our leaders yet. But as soon as I get any order, I will participate in any demonstration that they tell us.

Kiran Chetry: When you say receiving orders, tell us how the protests are organized. How are you guys called to go and where?

Mohammad: Actually, I’m a regular person. I’m not behind the scenes. I cannot tell you exactly how these demonstrations are organized. But as I know, as people said, there is a council, a group of Iranian reformists who organize these demonstrations and they tell us in any way that they could and we just follow.

Chetry: Do you get it on your cell phone, text messages, are you able to use the internet?

Mohammad: Actually, they reduce the internet speed. We have severe problems with the messenger software and every software like messengers. This is arranged by making calls, messages, calls to his friends or her friends and try to gather as much to tell as he or she can.

Roberts: Mohammad, we have been talking this morning about what the students are fighting for and whether the students are fighting for something different than the older more established political candidates like Moussavi. Are the students seeking regime change? Are they looking to bring down the Ayatollah and completely change the form of government there in Iran? Or are you looking for – as has been suggested – more civil rights, more freedoms within the context of the existing regime?

Mohammad: Yes. Let me tell you something. For about three decades our nation has been humiliated and insulted by this regime. Now Iranians are united again one more time after 1979 Revolution. We are a peaceful nation. We don’t hate anybody. We want to be an active member of the international community. We don’t want to be isolated. Is this much of a demand for a country with more than 2,500 years of civilization? We don’t deny the Holocaust. We do accept Israel’s rights. And actually, we want — we want severe reform on this structure. This structure is not going to be tolerated by the majority of Iranians. We need severe reform, as much as possible.

Roberts: Interesting perspective this morning from Mohammad, a student demonstrator there in Tehran.

Mohammad: Excuse me, sir. I have a message for the international community. Would you please let me tell it?

Roberts: Yes, go ahead.

Mohammad: Americans, European Union, international community, this government is not definitely — is definitely not elected by the majority of Iranians. So it’s illegal. Do not recognize it. Stop trading with them. Impose much more sanctions against them. My message…to the international community, especially I’m addressing President Obama directly – how can a government that doesn’t recognize its people’s rights and represses them brutally and mercilessly have nuclear activities? This government is a huge threat to global peace. Will a wise man give a sharp dagger to an insane person? We need your help international community. Don’t leave us alone.

Chetry: Mohammad, what do you think the international community should do besides sanctions?

Mohammad: Actually, this regime is really dependent on importing gasoline. More than 85% of Iran’s gasoline is imported from foreign countries. I think international communities must sanction exporting gasoline to Iran and that might shut down the government.

http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/22/iranian-protestor-plea/

 

[Marx]

This thread now has a poll? Interesting.

 

[voyzovrezon]

...okay, I'll bite. How?

I was referring to the amount of violence. In Iraq, morgues were so overrun with causalities of sectarian violence that bodies were rotting before they could be identified. Many more were dug out of shallow graves.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Iranian protester pleads for U.S., world to intervene

http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/22/iranian-protestor-plea/

Hmmm.... False Flag, to format a U.S./U.K. back revoultion in Iran. Same technique use. What's the difference between both of these candidates? Nothing. This is about ousting to Ayatollahs and installing the Monarchy. Watch out for the underlying sentiment of a third party/individual to bring Iran to the Global Community. Obama Admin. are smooth tacticians.

 

[StorminNorman]

Hmmm.... False Flag, to format a U.S./U.K. back revoultion in Iran. Same technique use. What's the difference between both of these candidates? Nothing. This is about ousting to Ayatollahs and installing the Monarchy. Watch out for the underlying sentiment of a third party/individual to bring Iran to the Global Community. Obama Admin. are smooth tacticians.

The difference is that one is supported by the people...the other isn't.

Also, you cannot compare the stance of Ahmendinijad on the West and Israel to the stance of Moussavi on those issues.