The Iran Thread

[Spider-Bite]

Preemptive is a nice word to throw around. How much longer can you realistically give a country that has been told by the world at large to stop doing something and they keep doing it anyway? How long do you give them to keep pushing through illegal acts and getting closer and closer to nuclear weapons before you finally show them that you aren't just full of hot air?

How long do you let the bully poke you before you finally throw a punch?

That is how these people get where they are now, they rely on the spineless to plea bargain, and beg and offer for them to stop doing the wrong thing. They push it to the point where they are just about to get stung and then they back off and apologize and say they will never do it again. Then they start doing it again in secret, untill someone finds out, then they let it play and let it play and let it play till they get to the point of getting stung and then they back off and apologize etc etc etc.

They play people's emotions like fiddles. Because they don't follow the rules and know that we will. So they do what they want and laugh as the American people make their government less and less powerfull and they get what they want anyway.

How many truces must we sign and then watch as the enemy on the brink of defeat restocks and rearms themselves to fight again at full strength a few years down the road only to waste precious lives and resources untill they get on the brink of defeat and sign another truce so they can rebuild their strength?

There is a word for people who let someone else walk all over them again and again. It's "Sucker"

There is also a word for people who rush into war, when other options have not been eliminated.

Foolhardy.

The problem is that invading Iran wont change any of the negative realities of the current situation. You think war with Iran will cause the U.S. to stop getting poked, or poked a lot more? You think war with Iran wont cost resources and lives? Of course it will cost a lot more. And look at Iraq. Iran would be Iraq times 10. And we don't have the 10 to throw at it.

War usually leads to more war. violence begets violence, and not peace. War with Iraq made war with Iran much more likely, and war with Iran will only help the Iraqi conflict between the Shiites and Sunnis spread throughout the middle east. War with Iran will not end with Iran. It would spread. It would be an all out World War 3 involving Iraq, Iran, Lebannon, Israel, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and more. And North Korea would see this as the perfect opportunity while we are weakened to try and take over South Korea. Remember several of those middle eastern countries I mentioned already have nuclear weapons.

War with Iran could trigger a chain of events causing the end of the world, and there are so many emotions deeply invested in the end of the world prophecies that state a war between Israel and Muslim nations will be the war to end all wars, and either Jesus or the great Mesiah will return on the last day and take all those who fought on the correct side of the Holy war to heaven, leaving everyone else to wait as the earth is consumed by Hell.

The fact that so many Christains and Muslims all over the world invest so much into that belief only makes it more likely to happen.

 

[Spider-Fett]

Not just potheads opposed the Vietnam War. The entire country was divided over it.

You blame draft dodgers for soldiers doing six tours in Vietnam not the politicians who demanded them to do the six tours. Interesting.

I guess the next time a gang attempts to recruit me I should feel guilty for "dodging them". Their just going to recruit some other poor guy because I didn't accept an opportunity to "serve my neighborhood gang". Shame on me.

You try and debate the words, but not the meaning behind them.

Anyone with a high school education would know that what I said and what you just said I said are nowhere near the same.

 

[unstoppable]

bush should be assassinated

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

bush should be assassinated

Which would solve no problems, but start SOOO many more.

 

[Speedball]

bush should be assassinated

You would actually condone the murder of a human being?

 

[blind_fury]

It's sad that America has gotten to this point.

It's sad more people didn't oppose the invasion of Iraq in the first place without asking if it was counter-productive or a tragic diversion from our efforts in Afghanistan. It's as if people don't care as long as they can watch American Idol and drink beer.

A draft would change all that though.

 

[Spider-Bite]

So are you saying that we haven't warned Iran? That we didn't give them any time?

We gave Sadaam time, we told him what we were going to do and when we were going to do it. And he didn't listen and was tried and convicted by his own people in their own justice system and hung.

As far as our allies go. They are all waiting for us to take the lead. Iran has been given it's time. It's not like we are just stopping by and bombing them out of the blue. They know what they face if they continue to disobey the worlds will.

the only ally waiting for us to take the lead in all out invasion is Israel, who's citizens mostly have their heads up Bush's ass right now, and haven't learned anything from the mistakes made in the last few years by both our countries. Israel was foolhardy to bomb Lebannon, and I was ashamed as our govenrment sped up weapon sales during that bombing, to Israel.

I was ashamed that we put little to no pressure on Israel 6 months ago when they started building on the neutral zone. What the hell were they thinking? They are just asking for war, because they figure we will bail them out.

If you want to be our ally, and you want our protection, you should be expected to do certain things and maintain an intelligent attitude towards the world, so you don't drag us through a bunch of wars.

The rest of our allies? They are not waiting for us to take the lead. They are waiting for Bush to get out of office, and they are waiting for us to stop acting so gung ho for war. Their patience is running out, and if we don't start acting intelligently, they wont be our allies any more.

 

[Spider-Fett]

There is also a word for people who rush into war, when other options have not been eliminated.

Foolhardy.

The problem is that invading Iran wont change any of the negative realities of the current situation. You think war with Iran will cause the U.S. to stop getting poked, or poked a lot more? You think war with Iran wont cost resources and lives? Of course it will cost a lot more. And look at Iraq. Iran would be Iraq times 10. And we don't have the 10 to throw at it.

War usually leads to more war. violence begets violence, and not peace. War with Iraq made war with Iran much more likely, and war with Iran will only help the Iraqi conflict between the Shiites and Sunnis spread throughout the middle east. War with Iran will not end with Iran. It would spread. It would be an all out World War 3 involving Iraq, Iran, Lebannon, Israel, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and more. And North Korea would see this as the perfect opportunity while we are weakened to try and take over South Korea. Remember several of those middle eastern countries I mentioned already have nuclear weapons.

War with Iran could trigger a chain of events causing the end of the world, and there are so many emotions deeply invested in the end of the world prophecies that state a war between Israel and Muslim nations will be the war to end all wars, and either Jesus or the great Mesiah will return on the last day and take all those who fought on the correct side of the Holy war to heaven, leaving everyone else to wait as the earth is consumed by Hell.

The fact that so many Christains and Muslims all over the world invest so much into that belief only makes it more likely to happen.

Please don't try and bring religion and prophecies into a debate about politics and reality.

Yes a war with Iran will be costly, yes it will not solve the problems in the middle east, there is no way to "solve" the problems between people who have hated each other for thousands of years.

But there is one thing it will stop. It will stop the morning you wake up and turn on CNN and see Iranians dancing in the street celebrating and Jerusalem a nuclear wasteland with their fingers on their own shiny red buttons ready to do the same to Tehran.

You act like we haven't been going through the U.N. or speaking directly to the Iranians for months on end now trying to find a diplomatic solution to this.

There are two ways this is going to end.

With Tehran shutting down their reactors and allowing inspectors in.

or

With Israel being wiped off the map.

Take your pick.

 

[Spider-Fett]

bush should be assassinated

And put Cheney in charge?

Yeah, there's a good idea

 

[blind_fury]

So are you saying that we haven't warned Iran? That we didn't give them any time?

We gave Sadaam time, we told him what we were going to do and when we were going to do it. And he didn't listen and was tried and convicted by his own people in their own justice system and hung.

As far as our allies go. They are all waiting for us to take the lead. Iran has been given it's time. It's not like we are just stopping by and bombing them out of the blue. They know what they face if they continue to disobey the worlds will.

ok so what if the Russian President warned us to stop using nuclear power or missle defense systems. If we refuse that gives them the right to invade and overthrow our government?

Or does that only apply to western superpowers?

 

[Spider-Fett]

It's sad more people didn't oppose the invasion of Iraq in the first place without asking if it was counter-productive or a tragic diversion from our efforts in Afghanistan. It's as if people don't care as long as they can watch American Idol and drink beer.

A draft would change all that though.

I was speaking more to the point of it being sad that some Americans put more faith in the words of a madman in Iran then they do in their own government.

 

[nosebleed.]

bush should be assassinated

way to hit those key words...those don't flag at all.

 

[blind_fury]

There is also a word for people who rush into war, when other options have not been eliminated.

Foolhardy.

The problem is that invading Iran wont change any of the negative realities of the current situation. You think war with Iran will cause the U.S. to stop getting poked, or poked a lot more? You think war with Iran wont cost resources and lives? Of course it will cost a lot more. And look at Iraq. Iran would be Iraq times 10. And we don't have the 10 to throw at it.

War usually leads to more war. violence begets violence, and not peace. War with Iraq made war with Iran much more likely, and war with Iran will only help the Iraqi conflict between the Shiites and Sunnis spread throughout the middle east. War with Iran will not end with Iran. It would spread. It would be an all out World War 3 involving Iraq, Iran, Lebannon, Israel, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and more. And North Korea would see this as the perfect opportunity while we are weakened to try and take over South Korea. Remember several of those middle eastern countries I mentioned already have nuclear weapons.

War with Iran could trigger a chain of events causing the end of the world, and there are so many emotions deeply invested in the end of the world prophecies that state a war between Israel and Muslim nations will be the war to end all wars, and either Jesus or the great Mesiah will return on the last day and take all those who fought on the correct side of the Holy war to heaven, leaving everyone else to wait as the earth is consumed by Hell.

The fact that so many Christains and Muslims all over the world invest so much into that belief only makes it more likely to happen.

Dude, you could tell him that millions will die and trillions of taxpayer money squandered. He wouldn't care. The president is always right and whenever he tells us to kill and die we should do it without question.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Please don't try and bring religion and prophecies into a debate about politics and reality.

Yes a war with Iran will be costly, yes it will not solve the problems in the middle east, there is no way to "solve" the problems between people who have hated each other for thousands of years.

But there is one thing it will stop. It will stop the morning you wake up and turn on CNN and see Iranians dancing in the street celebrating and Jerusalem a nuclear wasteland with their fingers on their own shiny red buttons ready to do the same to Tehran.

You act like we haven't been going through the U.N. or speaking directly to the Iranians for months on end now trying to find a diplomatic solution to this.

There are two ways this is going to end.

With Tehran shutting down their reactors and allowing inspectors in.

or

With Israel being wiped off the map.

Take your pick.

We have not been talking to Iran for months. Bush has said he will not begin negotiations untill after Iran has already stopped enriching Uranium.

And we aren't taking the necessary actions to pursuade Iran to stop enriching Uranium.

I don't want Israel wiped off the map, but we should make it clear that our support is not unconditional for them either. We should lay out terms, and if Israel refuses to obey those terms, than we should cut off our alliance with them.

I believe and hope that they would instead choose to abide by those terms. It would be better for them and us. I'd rather live in Israel than anywhere else in the middle east. They have a democracy and freedom, and are much more accepting and tolerant than the rest of that region.

And there is no way to leave religion out of a discussion about the Holy war, or Jihad. It would be ignorant to think you can. This war is being fought along religous lines, Shiites verses Sunnis, and muslims verses Christains.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Dude, you could tell him that millions will die and trillions of taxpayer money squandered. He wouldn't care. The president is always right and whenever he tells us to kill and die we should do it without question.

I should have pointed out that when I said

The fact that so many Christains and Muslims all over the world invest so much into that belief only makes it more likely to happen.

the only part more likely to happen is the end of the world part. I dont' believe anybody is going to "return" on the last day.

 

[Spider-Fett]

the only ally waiting for us to take the lead in all out invasion is Israel, who's citizens mostly have their heads up Bush's ass right now, and haven't learned anything from the mistakes made in the last few years by both our countries. Israel was foolhardy to bomb Lebannon, and I was ashamed as our govenrment sped up weapon sales during that bombing, to Israel.

I was ashamed that we put little to no pressure on Israel 6 months ago when they started building on the neutral zone. What the hell were they thinking? They are just asking for war, because they figure we will bail them out.

If you want to be our ally, and you want our protection, you should be expected to do certain things and maintain an intelligent attitude towards the world, so you don't drag us through a bunch of wars.

The rest of our allies? They are not waiting for us to take the lead. They are waiting for Bush to get out of office, and they are waiting for us to stop acting so gung ho for war. Their patience is running out, and if we don't start acting intelligently, they wont be our allies any more.

Israel bombed Lebanon because Hezbollah had been taking Israeli soldiers captive and fire rockets into Israel on a daily basis. Then Hezbollah pull their missile launchers up next to mosques, fill the mosques full of women and children and then bring in CNN to point out how evil Israel must be to fire at religious sights where women and children were "trying to hide"

Israel has VIDEO of them doing this, that aired on the major news networks for all of an hour before they moved back onto how bad Israel must be.

Even now Hezbollah still has Israeli soldiers held captive and fire rockets into Israel on a daily basis. But that wouldn't be good ratings to the anti-war Bush hating crowd that makes up the primary viewing audience of network 'news" so you hear nothing of it.

And if our allies were so unwilling to back us then why aren't they all at the U.N. pushing against sanctions against Iran?

 

[Spider-Fett]

ok so what if the Russian President warned us to stop using nuclear power or missle defense systems. If we refuse that gives them the right to invade and overthrow our government?

Or does that only apply to western superpowers?

It only applies to people who haven't sworn to wipe a country from the face of the earth and funds terrorist groups that blow up markets full of innocent people.

When Bush comes out on TV and swears to destroy Iran and the Iranian people in the name of Jesus you come talk to me about the U.S. needing to not have nukes. Untill then, your arguement doesn't hold water.

 

[Spider-Fett]

Dude, you could tell him that millions will die and trillions of taxpayer money squandered. He wouldn't care. The president is always right and whenever he tells us to kill and die we should do it without question.

Yes, clearly that is what I am saying. Way to jump to conclusions.

 

[Spider-Fett]

We have not been talking to Iran for months. Bush has said he will not begin negotiations untill after Iran has already stopped enriching Uranium.

And we aren't taking the necessary actions to pursuade Iran to stop enriching Uranium.

I don't want Israel wiped off the map, but we should make it clear that our support is not unconditional for them either. We should lay out terms, and if Israel refuses to obey those terms, than we should cut off our alliance with them.

I believe and hope that they would instead choose to abide by those terms. It would be better for them and us. I'd rather live in Israel than anywhere else in the middle east. They have a democracy and freedom, and are much more accepting and tolerant than the rest of that region.

And there is no way to leave religion out of a discussion about the Holy war, or Jihad. It would be ignorant to think you can. This war is being fought along religous lines, Shiites verses Sunnis, and muslims verses Christains.

This isn't a discussion about holy war or Sunnis vs Shiites. This is a discussion on whether or not if the US drafted people into the army to attack Iran if they would go. Which turned into whether or not the US would be justified in attacking Iran and whether we should question the US governments decision to do so.

Iran could be full of Vulcans instead of Muslims and if they were doing what they are doing now they would still be in dire straits. Their religion has nothing to do with it, their stance on Israel (no matter why they have that stance) and what they would do with nuclear weapons is the issue being discussed.

 

[Comic Book Boy]

I would never fight for a war I do not believe in. I would much sooner employ other methods in obtaining peace.

 

[zanos]

The military wouldn't want me but if they drafted me anyway then I'm outta here. I'm not going to be lead into some nutty war from the buffoons leading Washington.

 

[Sam Fisher]

what would you do?

would you go?

I wouldn't have to. Let's say I would have a free ticket out

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I AM PERSIAN

O, I am neither a terrorist nor a wife beater, I don't live in a tent and in the desert and camels are not our ways of transportation.

I speak Farsi, not Arabic.

Iran is pronounced "EERAUN" and not "I - ran" (it's not track & field)

News flash: Iran and Iraq are two different countries; Middle East is a region and NOT a continent.

Belly dancers are NOT strippers (there is no sex in the Champaign room);
Anyway, belly dancing is an Arabic dance, it never came from Iran.

Each time you play a game of chess to improve your intellect, keep in mind that it was Persians who gave you your game.

Iranian women are just as outspoken (if not more) and liberal as the European (western) women.

Iran is the first country on earth to have a lion (male) and a sun
(female) as its symbol; and the colors red, white, and green for a flag.

A beautiful country run by the wrong people, but still is the best part of
Middle East

Allow me to introduce myself:

I'M A PERSIAN. MY LAND IS IRAN!
Post this if you're proud to be a "PERSIAN"; to all Persians and more?


I just thought this was quite interesting and may give a few a better understanding.

 

[Jerry!]

Thank god- I mean Allah- that I have I have spam email blocked.

 

[Ryo Jin]

I wouldn't have a choice.