The Iran Thread

If it's proven Iran's helping the insurgency kill American troops, do we invade Iran?

  • yes

  • no

  • not sure


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Lack the stomach for war? And that's supposed to be a bad thing?

Maybe Germany had its fill of it back in WWII. A guy named Hitler took over and we all know what happened then. It took years for them to rebuild with other nations help.

Maybe if other countries were as "liberal" as Germany and France, there'd be a lot less bloodshed in the world. Good gravy people, give peace a chance!
 
Iran is just pissed Obama hasn't been over for Tea and Crumpets yet. Wait until that happens and Obama Wan Kenobi will use his Jedi Mind Tricks then everything will be "Kosher". Except probably Israel. Which will no longer be Kosher as they will be dust.

Way to go Obama!

What ta....:lmao:

What's wrong with having tea and crumpets with other world leaders? And Obi Wan Kenobi was a very wise sage. Obama could hope to do as well.

Another president named Jimmy Carter succeeded in bringing together two supposedly enemies in peace. I'm old enough to remember Begin and Sadat. Maybe with Arafat gone, and a new president for Iran on the way, it's not too late to give up hope.
 
Lack the stomach for war? And that's supposed to be a bad thing?

Maybe Germany had its fill of it back in WWII. A guy named Hitler took over and we all know what happened then. It took years for them to rebuild with other nations help.

Maybe if other countries were as "liberal" as Germany and France, there'd be a lot less bloodshed in the world. Good gravy people, give peace a chance!

Guess what, we can't afford to treat the world as if it was ideal. When evaluating National Security and International Relations, we have to see the world for what it is. Deluding yourself does nothing to benefit your people.

A country that does not have the stomach to go to war has a disadvantage when going against a country like Iran.
 
A country that does not have the stomach to go to war has a disadvantage when going against a country like Iran.

I'm also old enough to remember the day Ronald Reagan was inaugurated, it was the same day the hostages in Iran were set free without war! People did some negotiating behind the scenes and AVOIDED a war.
 
Our president's handling of Iran thus far has been an embarrassment to our country. Bush did too much in regards to foreign policy, overstepped his bounds and what not where as Obama is not doing enough. It is like he sits in his office like a terrified little boy hoping that his world of rainbows and unicorns won't be disrupted by some nut job third world leader.

I dont know if he is scared but I do think he doesnt want to be seen as aggressive in foreign relations as Bush was. He's trying to be better than the "war mongering" Bush. There has to be a middle ground and we've gone from one extreme to the other.

You must have been a Hillary supporter. :hehe:

I feel safer now that the Obama administration is in charge. He's willing to be diplomatic as part of his job--not to shoot from the hip and ask questions later like Cheney wants to do. You know, the guy that got five deferments from serving in the military?

Anyway, if war ensues, it will be on the head of Netenyahu. He's crazy.
I doubt that. I'd say Iran and Israel are about even in the likelihood that they will attack each other. Its just a question of defense or offense. Not that it matters, as a strike by either side would be very bad for Mid East peace.
 
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I doubt that. I'd say Iran and Israel are about even in the likelihood that they will attack each other. Its just a question of defense or offense. Not that it matters, as a strike by either side would be very bad for Mid East peace.

True, but Netenyahu's aggressive expansion policies are further fanning the flames of ethnic distrust.
 
True, but Netenyahu's aggressive expansion policies are further fanning the flames of ethnic distrust.

Israel has lost its bigger ally in America, Israel has a right to be scared. Obama has forced Israel to be wound so tightly.
 
Obama may be tougher on Israel than Bush was but America is still her #1 ally.
 
With friends like Obama, who needs enemies?

Here is a good analysis by Charles Krauthammer

The Settlements Myth

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, June 5, 2009

President Obama repeatedly insists that American foreign policy be conducted with modesty and humility. Above all, there will be no more "dictating" to other countries. We should "forge partnerships as opposed to simply dictating solutions," he told the G-20 summit. In Middle East negotiations, he told al-Arabiya, America will henceforth "start by listening, because all too often the United States starts by dictating."

An admirable sentiment. It applies to everyone -- Iran, Russia, Cuba, Syria, even Venezuela. Except Israel. Israel is ordered to freeze all settlement activity. As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton imperiously explained the diktat: "a stop to settlements -- not some settlements, not outposts, not natural-growth exceptions."

What's the issue? No "natural growth" means strangling to death the thriving towns close to the 1949 armistice line, many of them suburbs of Jerusalem, that every negotiation over the past decade has envisioned Israel retaining. It means no increase in population. Which means no babies. Or if you have babies, no housing for them -- not even within the existing town boundaries. Which means for every child born, someone has to move out. No community can survive like that. The obvious objective is to undermine and destroy these towns -- even before negotiations.

To what end? Over the past decade, the U.S. government has understood that any final peace treaty would involve Israel retaining some of the close-in settlements -- and compensating the Palestinians accordingly with land from within Israel itself.

That was envisioned in the Clinton plan in the Camp David negotiations in 2000, and again at Taba in 2001. After all, why expel people from their homes and turn their towns to rubble when, instead, Arabs and Jews can stay in their homes if the 1949 armistice line is shifted slightly into the Palestinian side to capture the major close-in Jewish settlements, and then shifted into Israeli territory to capture Israeli land to give to the Palestinians?

This idea is not only logical, not only accepted by both Democratic and Republican administrations for the past decade, but was agreed to in writing in the letters of understanding exchanged between Israel and the United States in 2004 -- and subsequently overwhelmingly endorsed by a concurrent resolution of Congress.

Yet the Obama State Department has repeatedly refused to endorse these agreements or even say it will honor them. This from a president who piously insists that all parties to the conflict honor previous obligations. And who now expects Israel to accept new American assurances in return for concrete and irreversible Israeli concessions, when he himself has just cynically discarded past American assurances.

The entire "natural growth" issue is a concoction. Is the peace process moribund because a teacher in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem is making an addition to her house to accommodate new grandchildren? It is perverse to make this the center point of the peace process at a time when Gaza is run by Hamas terrorists dedicated to permanent war with Israel and when Mahmoud Abbas, having turned down every one of Ehud Olmert's peace offers, brazenly declares that he is in a waiting mode -- waiting for Hamas to become moderate and for Israel to cave -- before he'll do anything to advance peace.

In his much-heralded "Muslim world" address in Cairo yesterday, Obama declared that the Palestinian people's "situation" is "intolerable." Indeed it is, the result of 60 years of Palestinian leadership that gave its people corruption, tyranny, religious intolerance and forced militarization; leadership that for three generations rejected every offer of independence and dignity, choosing destitution and despair rather than accept any settlement not accompanied by the extinction of Israel.

That's why Haj Amin al-Husseini chose war rather than a two-state solution in 1947. Why Yasser Arafat turned down a Palestinian state in 2000. And why Abbas rejected Olmert's even more generous December 2008 offer.

In the 16 years since the Oslo accords turned the West Bank and Gaza over to the Palestinians, their leaders built no roads, no courthouses, no hospitals, none of the fundamental state institutions that would relieve their people's suffering. Instead they poured everything into an infrastructure of war and terror, all the while depositing billions (from gullible Western donors) into their Swiss bank accounts.

Obama says he came to Cairo to tell the truth. But he uttered not a word of that. Instead, among all the bromides and lofty sentiments, he issued but one concrete declaration of new American policy: "The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements," thus reinforcing the myth that Palestinian misery and statelessness are the fault of Israel and the settlements.

Blaming Israel and picking a fight over "natural growth" may curry favor with the Muslim "street." But it will only induce the Arab states to do like Abbas: sit and wait for America to deliver Israel on a platter. Which makes the Obama strategy not just dishonorable but self-defeating.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/04/AR2009060403811_pf.html
 
So Krauthammer's argument is that the language all parties accepted in the 2003 roadmap ("GOI freezes all settlement activity (including natural growth of settlements)) is dictating. But an agreement between the US and Israel to propose swapping fertile settlement land for a patch of desert isn't. What a pile of excrement
 
I had no idea untill a couple months ago that Krauthammer is paralysed. Can't believe I didn't notice
 
So Krauthammer's argument is that the language all parties accepted in the 2003 roadmap ("GOI freezes all settlement activity (including natural growth of settlements)) is dictating. But an agreement between the US and Israel to propose swapping fertile settlement land for a patch of desert isn't. What a pile of excrement

It's about maintaining current settlements so as not to force innocent Israeli's nor innocent Palestinians to leave their homes.
 
I wonder how Jewish voters (75+% of the Jewish Community voted for Obama last election) feel about electing an enemy of Israel.
 
Actually, my aunt and uncle are Jewish and they voted against Obama for this very reason: thinking that he wont support Israel. Yeah, thats why he is the first sitting American president to visit a former concentration camp. That shows a real lack of sensitivity and a lack of awareness about anti-Semitism and the dangers that Jews face. :whatever:
 
Visiting a concentration camp does what for the jewish people? Don't confuse a political stunt for substance. Just because Ahmadinejad visits the UN doesn't mean he has any interest in promoting global unity.

And I am not blaming the Jewish people for being tricked by Obama - they had little way of knowing how hostile Obama would be to Israel. I was asking, essentially, if they have buyers remorse.
 
Visiting a concentration camp does what for the jewish people? And I am not blaming the Jewish people for being tricked by Obama - they had little way of knowing how hostile Obama would be to Israel. I was asking, essentially, if they have buyers remorse.

How is he hostile to Israel? :huh: He condemned violence against Israelis. Visiting Buchenwald does show sensitivity to the Jewish people. Does it do anything outright? No, but its a good gesture. I cant believe anyone would actually think an American president would turn his back on Israel.
 
It's about maintaining current settlements so as not to force innocent Israeli's nor innocent Palestinians to leave their homes.

Oh really? What settlements do Palestinians have in Israeli territory?

The "analysis" doesn't mention innocent Palestinians because it's ludicrously one-sided

I wonder how Jewish voters (75+% of the Jewish Community voted for Obama last election) feel about electing an enemy of Israel.

Stopping an illegal land grab = enemy of Israel. Laughable

Was Bush Sr an enemy of Israel too? He actually imposed sanctions whereas Obama pays lip-service
 
US Intell Expects Iran/Israel War in 09
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=85662&sectionid=351020101
The US intelligence chief reportedly expects Israel and Iran to engage in a major military confrontation before the end of the year.

Dennis Blair, the newly-appointed head of US intelligence, said Tel Aviv will eventually declare war on Tehran as a last-ditch effort to curb Iran's enrichment capabilities, Israeli daily Ha'aretz reported on Saturday.

Detailed military plans to bomb Iran's nuclear infrastructure have long been on the table in Tel Aviv.

Israel accuses Iran, a signatory to the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), of pursuing a military nuclear program.

Iran, however, says it enriches uranium for civilian applications and that it has a right to the technology already in the hands of many others.

In an annual threat assessment to Congress on Thursday, Blair reconfirmed the findings of a 2007 intelligence report, asserting once again that Iran is not currently working toward weaponization.

The retired admiral said that while Iran has made progress in enrichment, there is proof that Tehran "does not currently have a nuclear weapon, and does not have enough fissile material for one".

The National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) issued in November 2007 by sixteen US intelligence agencies has been an obstacle to Israeli efforts in building a case for war against the Islamic Republic.

In a Friday interview, former Israeli UN ambassador Dan Gillerman nevertheless revealed that Tel Aviv is preparing a military offensive against the country.

Gillerman explained that Israel could no longer afford to wait for international efforts to bring Iran's enrichment to an end.

Israeli legislator and weapons expert Isaac Ben-Israel has also called for Tel Aviv to attack Tehran in the coming year.

The Israeli calls against Tehran come at a time when prospects for direct US-Iran diplomacy have increased significantly in recent weeks.

Iran and the US have had no diplomatic ties for almost thirty years, but in an abrupt volte-face in the White House policy of isolating Iran, US President Barack Obama has vowed to break the ice and create conditions for the two sides to "start sitting across the table, face to face" in the coming months.

"I think there's the possibility, at least, of a relationship of mutual respect and progress," Obama said at his first prime time press conference on Monday.

"My expectation is, in the coming months, we will be looking for openings that can be created where we can start sitting across the table face-to-face with diplomatic overtures that will allow us to move our policy in the new direction," he added.

Israel fears US-Iran talks may lead to rapprochement between the two countries -- a development that may be able to slightly change the balance of power in the Middle East.

Iran has shown openness toward US calls for dialogue but insists that Washington should be seeking lasting 'change' and not a mere shift in tactics.
 
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How is he hostile to Israel? :huh: He condemned violence against Israelis. Visiting Buchenwald does show sensitivity to the Jewish people. Does it do anything outright? No, but its a good gesture. I cant believe anyone would actually think an American president would turn his back on Israel.

Why take my words when you could have essentially the same message come from a highly respected political mind like Charles Krauthammer.

The "analysis" doesn't mention innocent Palestinians because it's ludicrously one-sided

Actually it does. It mentions the fact that the Palestinian people have been used and abused by it's leaders.

Stopping an illegal land grab = enemy of Israel. Laughable

An illegal land grab? Bull. Israel has a right to the land. Obama wants to prevent Israel from having any natural growth, which is completely absurd. Obama places most of the blame of the Palestinians on the Israeli's and not those who deserve the blame - the leadership of the Palestinians and Arab neighbors.

Was Bush Sr an enemy of Israel too? He actually imposed sanctions whereas Obama pays lip-service

Obama's hostility is obvious in the difference in approach in how he treats Iran and North Korea and how he treats Israel.


I'm shocked! SHOCKED!
 
Actually it does. It mentions the fact that the Palestinian people have been used and abused by it's leaders.

Which is relevant how to you saying the article was about not forcing "innocent Israeli's nor innocent Palestinians to leave their homes". Don't try to create false equivalences

An illegal land grab? Bull. Israel has a right to the land. Obama wants to prevent Israel from having any natural growth, which is completely absurd.

You still haven't acknowledged that Israel accepted the road map, including a freeze on natural growth

Obama's hostility is obvious in the difference in approach in how he treats Iran and North Korea and how he treats Israel.

A complete non-answer. What's the difference between Bush Sr and Obama's attitude to Israeli settlements?

United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 and the treaties made with Jordon and Egypt

Where in 242 does it say Israel has a right to the land?
 
I don't recall those treaties giving Israel a right to the West Bank, Gaza or the Golan Heights.
 
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Did they not gain those through war?
 
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