The Iran Thread

[Heretic]

It was a joke...not propaganda. Anyone who thinks thats even remotely serious needs to calm down a bit.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Nothing is going to really happen in Iran. Mousavi was not going to take down the Islamic Republic. He was part of the founding fathers of this horrible system.

I got this email yesterday:

Yesterday was the Iranian presidential election. I drove to Ottawa to vote. More than 85% of eligible voters voted, of which about 80% of those voted for Mousavi, that is, against current president Ahmadinejad. I actually campaigned to encourage voting, by launching Lotfan.org last weekend.

Overnight however, a silent coup happens. The votes are never counted! Imaginary numbers are pushed out in the state-run TV as actuals:
The first counts, from rural places, start with Ahmadinejad getting 69% of the votes. Which sounds not right, but not unrealistic for rural places.

What we notice as being very very weird in our 5 hour drive back to Toronto is, as the total of votes counted goes up from 5 millions to 10, 15, 21, 24, 25, 28, 29, 30 millions, the balance doesn't change much. In fact, as facebookers and bloggers soon discovered, the ratio of votes for Mousavi over that of Ahmadinejad's at any given announcement was following a straight line with VERY HIGH CERTAINTY.



Same pattern applies for other candidates, which consistently get 1% and 2% of the vote, with Mousavi and Ahmadinejad converging to a 1:2 ratio.

The first three hours, they "counted" 20 million votes, a very unusually high rate. The next three hours, only 10. Then there's silence for six hours. No one's responding. Mousavi and Karroubi are pretty much non-existent on the net and news. Karbaschi, the former Tehran mayor and Karroubi's VP stopped tweeting at 4am, saying that they have to wait to hear from Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, and he wouldn't tweet for ten hours. It's this time that bloggers find about the all made up numbers. The following "photo" of the Iran map on fire storms Facebook profile photos:





There's a freaking silence in the air. Makhmalbaf, the world-famous Iranian director who is associated with Mousavi's campaign talks to foreign media and warns about the coup. People in Iran wake up to an election lost, and life looks normal. Except that it's not. A coup is going on. Mousavi, Karroubi, Rafsanjani, and all other prominent figures are waiting for Supreme Leader's word. Election results are postponed from 8am, to 10, to noon, to 2, and to 4pm.

The results are finally out and the Supreme Leader approves the election results.

Storm of people in the street. Being shot:



The police alleging protesters of violence, but who's breaking the windshield on these cars? Well, judge yourself:



This is the start of a new era in Iran.
The videos are being uploaded and circulated widely on Facebook AS WE SPEEK. Like this, or this, or this.

Iran is a different place today.

I have not copied in the photos or videaos as I am too lazy to do so but you get the gist from the words.

Personally, I think the vote is a protest in itself but that any one of the candidates were not going to do much given the real power lies with Khamanei and not the President.

At the end of the day, it was the west that helped put the islamic republic into power and everyone (apart from those in the regime) who gets to live to regret it. The Islamists have done everything to ruin Iran and are continuing to do so. However, the protests over "results" of this "election" are a sign of the unrest and unhapiness in the country. We can hope for change but I am not holding my breadth.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

It was a joke...not propaganda. Anyone who thinks thats even remotely serious needs to calm down a bit.

Racist is Racist.

Nothing is going to really happen in Iran.

Personally, I think the vote is a protest in itself but that any one of the candidates were not going to do much given the real power lies with Khamanei and not the President.

At the end of the day, it was the west that helped put the islamic republic into power and everyone (apart from those in the regime) who gets to live to regret it. The Islamists have done everything to ruin Iran and are continuing to do so. However, the protests over "results" of this "election" are a sign of the unrest and unhapiness in the country. We can hope for change but I am not holding my breadth.

Like you said, the vote is only a protest. They were just using Mousavi's name as a cover to go outside. My father doesn't think anything will happen, but he thought the same with the last Revolution too.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Like you said, the vote is only a protest. They were just using Mousavi's name as a cover to go outside. My father doesn't think anything will happen, but he thought the same with the last Revolution too.

The last revolution which happenned in a very short time frame was largely helped by the US, France and Great Britain who thought they would be able to increase their influence. However, a big m istake was made which results in what we live through now.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/15/iran-opposition-rally-banned-mousavi


The turmoil following Iran's disputed presidential election intensified today, after the country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, ordered an investigation into claims of vote rigging and an opposition protest rally was cancelled amid fears protestors would be fired upon.
The government declared on Friday that the incumbent president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, had won in a landslide victory, a claim disputed by his rivals headed by the moderate Mir Hossein Mousavi, whose supporters took to the streets and clashed with police.
Iran's leaders spent the weekend urging people to accept the result but today Khamenei ordered an investigation into claims of vote-rigging and fraud.
Iranian state television said Khamenei had told the guardian council, the clerical body that oversees elections, to examine Mousavi's claims of widespread vote rigging in Friday's poll.


Not sure how that can turn out well. If you admit fraud and still claim Ahmadinejad won, they'll still be pissed off.

I'm not convinced this is going to full on Revolution anyway.

Man, Iran's situation has NOTHING to do with Iraq and Afghanistan. And Hezbollah wasn't in Iraq. And the only solution that HAS worked in the past has been Revolution (and I'm not just talking Iran) Everytime a foreign country has tried to intervene they have only made matters worse (again not just talking Iran, but it has happened with Iran three times now in the last fifty years). Mark my words, if there is outside interference, all of the efforts of the youth will be in vain and everything will be undone. The USA has no business going into Iran right now so they shouldn't go, just like Israel attacking Iran would be random. The Iranian government talks a lot of **** but they won't actually do anything. But if Israel was to strike first, I'm sure Iran would be ready to fire missiles. But let's hope it doesn't come to that. This seems to be the best solution, and as long as people don't go "OUR COUNTRY SHOULD BE THE HERO HERE!" things will go fine. Yes I'm of Persian/Iranian heritage (my whole family was born in Iran, but had to move to Canada because of the persicussions on the Baha'is in Iran and I was born here (in Canada). I am also a very big history buff and I've been following the politics and human rights (or lack thereof) in Iran since I was a child.

Trust me. I don't want the US anywhere near Iran. I've had enough of Middle East politics. Even though I sure we'll be blamed somehow.


My point was that there's no way Iran can have a sealed off revolution. Especially if the situation destabilzes the country for weeks or months. Forces in the Middle East or Europe that want certain ideologies to provail will inevitable come out. That's what would likely happen, but I don't think it should happen.

Despite Iran hating us, they gave limited tactical info to the US in the immediate invasion and occupation of Afghanistan because they hated the Taliban being on their border. I.e their interest in the region trumpted their hatred of us.

 

[chaseter]

I was watching the Today show this morning and Anne was interviewing Netanyahu and she was asking him about Iran and how Netanyahu was promoting an Islamic state for the first time and she asked if Obama influenced his decision and if Obama was his inspiration....................................................................

I wanted to punch Anne in the face. I love the media:heart:

 

[Marx]

What does everything think of the calls for Obama to not recognize the Iranian government?

 

[Hobgoblin]

Sure, no one wants to recognize Ahmadinejad as the legit ruler of Iran but I dont see what else we can do. Who else is there? He is a puppet of the mullahs anyway. No matter who we deal with, we are really dealing with the Ayatollah.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

You really can't live in a world of wishes. If the current govt. stands then that's who he has to deal with. No point pissing them off if you can just stand back and shut up.

 

[Paradoxium]

Going through the mainstream news, this has got to be one of the most biased and atrocious news reporting I have seen since the 2008 love fest.

Not to be Mr. Kill Joy but has people forgotten about Pakistan? Just because they enable the democratic process, it doesn't mean they will vote a American/Western friendly government. I've pointed this out a few times. It won't happen, in our lifetimes. If a pro-Western government ever came into power through the democratic process it WON'T last. It will have to be a dictatorship. It's just the volatile nature of Middle Eastern politics.

I think the mainstream is overestimating the actual voter fraud. I don't doubt there was fraud, but it is probably in the same neighborhood of vote rigging/fraud as the 2000, 2004 and 2008 American elections. In other words, not enough to make that much of a difference. Besides who are we trying to kid, Ayatollah Khomeini is the real ruler.

 

[Marx]

Going through the mainstream news, this has got to be one of the most biased and atrocious news reporting I have seen since the 2008 love fest.

Not to be Mr. Kill Joy but has people forgotten about Pakistan? Just because they enable the democratic process, it doesn't mean they will vote a American/Western friendly government. I've pointed this out a few times. It won't happen, in our lifetimes. If a pro-Western government ever came into power through the democratic process it WON'T last. It will have to be a dictatorship. It's just the volatile nature of Middle Eastern politics.

I think the mainstream is overestimating the actual voter fraud. I don't doubt there was fraud, but it is probably in the same neighborhood of vote rigging/fraud as the 2000, 2004 and 2008 American elections. In other words, not enough to make that much of a difference. Besides who are we trying to kid, Ayatollah Khomeini is the real ruler.

I think the voter fraud was a great deal worse than anything here. When you have Mousavi losing by landslide percentages in areas that are essentially a complete reversal from pre-election statistics, something is off.

 

[Nivek]

We have 0 say on what happens in Iran. I do think Obama made the right call not recognising the government, since something is obviously up with the election tally.

 

[VampElvis]

Well, if the email Lt. Ahura Mazda posted is factually true that does seem quite suspicious. I think pretty much everyone was expecting a close election (though I wasn't following it closely) and that doesn't help either. Just don't send Carter over there. That won't help.

 

[Malice]

goto http://almost.at

its a cool site to see updates from people on it

 

[C.F. Kane]

What does everything think of the calls for Obama to not recognize the Iranian government?

I say give it time. We have no idea yet if this is going to be a Velvet Revolution or just another Tienanmen Square. If legitimate and widespread evidence of voting fraud is found, condemn it and get on Mousavi's side. If the protesters are shown to be crying wolf and no voter fraud is found, continue doing what we've been doing, pressuring Iran to give up nukes and support of terrorism.

 

[StorminNorman]

What does everything think of the calls for Obama to not recognize the Iranian government?

Sure, no one wants to recognize Ahmadinejad as the legit ruler of Iran but I dont see what else we can do. Who else is there? He is a puppet of the mullahs anyway. No matter who we deal with, we are really dealing with the Ayatollah.

You really can't live in a world of wishes. If the current govt. stands then that's who he has to deal with. No point pissing them off if you can just stand back and shut up.

As long as Ahmadinejad remains the President of Iran, Obama must abandon his idea of talking with the Iranian government. You CANNOT legitimize an illegitimate government that openly defies the wishes of their people.

 

[StorminNorman]

Well, if the email Lt. Ahura Mazda posted is factually true that does seem quite suspicious. I think pretty much everyone was expecting a close election (though I wasn't following it closely) and that doesn't help either. Just don't send Carter over there. That won't help.

Who in their right mind would send Jimmy freakin' Carter to Iran?

 

[Marx]

As long as Ahmadinejad remains the President of Iran, Obama must abandon his idea of talking with the Iranian government. You CANNOT legitimize an illegitimate government that openly defies the wishes of their people.

That is a very good point man.

 

[Marx]

MCCAIN CALLS IRAN VOTE RESULT 'CORRUPT'
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/15/mccain-calls-iran-vote-result-corrupt/

Arizona Sen. John McCain responded sharply Monday to the disputed election result in Iran showing victory for Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, calling the whole process "corrupt" and questioning the legitimacy of the current investigation into the matter.

"It's very disappointing ,of course, but not astonishing," McCain told CNN Monday. "The Muslim cleric extremists control the political mechanisms of Iran and it's not encouraging in a year that the ones who perpetrated this fraud are now going to be in charge of the investigation."

"I hope that we can succeed in our relations with Iran, but this is not a good sign and we should speak out strongly in opposition to what was clearly a corrupt election," said McCain.

The comments come after three days of unrest that prompted Iranian authorities to launch a probe into Friday's election result showing an overwhelming victory for Ahmadinejad over reformist Mir Hossein Moussavi.

The incumbent claimed 62 percent of the vote, prompting suspicion at home and abroad, particularly among Western countries already at loggerheads with Ahmadinejad over an Iranian nuclear program they fear is non-peaceful.

McCain's comments go significantly further than those of the Obama administration, which has not directly called the vote result a fraud but has expressed "concern."

"I think there are a number of factors that give us some concern about what we've seen," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Monday.

I have to applaud McCain on this one.

 

[Marx]

MOUSAVI ADDRESSES CROWD IN TEHRAN
[YT]oV49nmWsrio[/YT]

Apparently, the march started out rather small and grew into this.

 

[Hobgoblin]

As long as Ahmadinejad remains the President of Iran, Obama must abandon his idea of talking with the Iranian government. You CANNOT legitimize an illegitimate government that openly defies the wishes of their people.

Ok, so who would you talk to? Iran's nuke program cant be ignored and bombing should still be avoided if possible.

 

[Marx]

BREAKING NEWS!

There are now reports of gunfire breaking out at the rally!

 

[Marx]

UPDATE: SHOOTING REPORTED AT MOUSAVI PROTEST RALLY
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/15/iran.elections.protests/index.html

Iranian television reported that gunfire broke out at the end of Monday's rally in support of defeated presidential candidate Mir Hossein Moussavi.

Press TV reporter Amir Mehdi Kazemi said he heard gunshots at the rally and at least one person, a boy, appeared to be injured by the gunfire.

"A number of people started shooting, I heard a couple of gunshots, and then this resulted in a number of people starting yelling at that particular building," Kazemi said in his report on the government-funded TV station.

"The police have not shown any involvement in this issue right now, the people are running."

CNN could not confirm the report.

Reformist Moussavi appeared at the massive rally in Tehran, the first time he has been seen in public since the disputed election on Friday.

He spoke to supporters in Tehran's Freedom Square using a loudspeaker, and clasped his hands over his head as the crowd cheered. Wearing a striped shirt and smiling, he appeared confident, despite official election results showing that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad convincingly won Friday's election.

Hundreds of thousands of people turned out for the demonstration, said Kazemi.

 

[VampElvis]

Breibart is reporting the state militia has opened fire on the public, killed at least one, and severly wounded several others.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98R9CR80&show_article=1

 

[chamber-music]

I feel sorry for ordinary Iranians being stuck with Ahmadinejad. It seems a lot of people want change.