The Iran Thread

[StorminNorman]

I think you're comparing apples and oranges. The American Revolution had been going on for years before Franklin finally convinced the French to join us. We were getting desperate as a country. Thats very different from the Iran situation. There is no war going on there and while the Iranian people are very angry, they arent as desperate as they would be after years of stalemated fighting. Its all psychology.

And I think it is unreal to expect the Iranian people could fight for a year, or wage any war at all, without the support of an outside source. Again, the difference between civilian arms and government arms is much different than it was in 1778.

 

[Venom'sDad]

I think Americans needs to be concern on how to fight against our own Government, given all the dictorial changes to the U.S.Constitution, our very existence & way of life, and given the fact that they are aggressively persuing our Constitutional right to bare arms. At some point, we won't be any different than the Palestinians throwing stones in defense.

Think about it.

 

[Kelly]

What changes to the Constitution? Can you give some examples....not those that you think are coming, but the actual amendments....

 

[Hobgoblin]

And I think it is unreal to expect the Iranian people could fight for a year, or wage any war at all, without the support of an outside source. Again, the difference between civilian arms and government arms is much different than it was in 1778.

And what would happen when word inevitably got to the Iranian high command that we were helping the rebellion? Sooner or later, weapons would be confiscated, someone would talk or the leadership might just get paranoid and make a lucky guess. How would they respond to our meddling in their affairs?

 

[Kelly]

Pretty much what they are doing now? Imprisoning those that are speaking out against the government. Reports are also saying that some are being tortured in prison. People being killed. I would say they would pretty much be doing what they are doing now.

Oh, and blaming it all on the US....

 

[Superman4ever]

I don't understand this whole, 'if we don't like you we shouldn't recognize you/our way or the highway' attitude being pushed off. Cry and scream and shout about democracy and freedom, but America is a hypocrite when it comes to the "enemy" winning.

Has anyone read outside what the TV tells them? Terror free Tomorrow ran a poll throughout Iran, not just the major cities, before the elections that showed Ahmedinejad winning 3:1 over Moussavai. Also, most of the polls run by the MSM are only based exclusively out of the major cities like Tehran, which favored Moussavai, but that's like saying Kerry would have won 2004 based on polling done exclusively at San Fran or NY.

The Terror Free Tomorrow poll had another important result. One of the arguments being made that there must certainly have been fraud is the claim that Ahmadinejad could not possibly have won the Azeri city of Tabriz, as was reported by the official results, since Mousavi, who is Azeri, is from Azerbaijan province, of which Tabriz is the capital. Juan Cole, for example, makes this argument. Here's what the Terror Free Tomorrow poll had to say about that:

"Inside Iran, considerable attention has been given to Mr. Moussavi's Azeri background, emphasizing the appeal his Azeri identity may have for Azeri voters. The results of our survey indicate that only 16 percent of Azeri Iranians indicate they will vote for Mr. Moussavi. By contrast, 31 percent of the Azeris claim they will vote for Mr. Ahmadinejad."

http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/upimagestft/TFT Iran Survey Report 0609.pdf

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/229

It's SO hypocritical when pro-Western puppets win elections under highly unusual circumstances that the Neo-cons are mute on the "fraud" claims, like in Lebanon with its recent elections, which if you actually followed EVERY point made against Iran for committing fraud applies to the Pro-Western Hariri stealing the election from Hezbollah. Every point. Where's the call for fair and free elections here?

On Monday night at least 100,000 of the former prime minister's supporters set up a human chain across Tehran. But, hours before I had attended a mass rally for the incumbent president that got little to no coverage in the western press because, on account of the crowds, he never made it inside the hall to give his speech. Minimal estimates from that gathering have been placed at 600,000 (enthusiasts say a million). From the roof I watched as the veiled women and bearded men of all ages poured like lava.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/13/iranian-election

 

[Hobgoblin]

Pretty much what they are doing now? Imprisoning those that are speaking out against the government. Reports are also saying that some are being tortured in prison. People being killed. I would say they would pretty much be doing what they are doing now.

Oh, and blaming it all on the US....

Exactly. Why add fuel to the fire? Except the fire would also be directed at the US, not just the protesters.

 

[Kelly]

I'm not sure what they could do "at" the US......and who knows if covert operations were going on....

 

[Hobgoblin]

I'm not sure what they could do "at" the US......and who knows if covert operations were going on....

Launch attacks on troops in Iraq, close the Straights of Hormuz, or give the signal to their terror cells around the world. Iran does have the largest terrorist network on the planet.

 

[Kelly]

Launch attacks on troops in Iraq, close the Straights of Hormuz, or give the signal to their terror cells around the world. Iran does have the largest terrorist network on the planet.

Well, actually closing the Strait of Hormuz would be great for us, because that would be a definite that would get Europe involved full fledged.....so that would actually do us a favor, it would also bring Egypt on fully with our side as well, a tnd the UAE as well as Saudi Arabia certainly don't want the shipment of oil a problem....

Let them signal their terror cells, we would then have perfect proof for the rest of the world that they indeed are involved in terrorist activities. (we already know this, but Europe, the UN, and our own Administration seem alittle dense to that fact....so I say, bring it on.....all will be out on the table, and we can take of several birds at the same time.

 

[Superman4ever]

Launch attacks on troops in Iraq, close the Straights of Hormuz, or give the signal to their terror cells around the world. Iran does have the largest terrorist network on the planet.

According to who? The CIA? Which IS the actual largest terrorist organization in the world.

Terror cells around the world? Seriously? Are we talking Al Qaeda or Iran? Or are they now in league in some conspiracy to take over the world?

And who has/aids terror cells in who's country? http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5325

Wow.

 

[Kelly]

ok.....

 

[Hobgoblin]

Well, actually closing the Strait of Hormuz would be great for us, because that would be a definite that would get Europe involved full fledged.....so that would actually do us a favor, it would also bring Egypt on fully with our side as well, a tnd the UAE as well as Saudi Arabia certainly don't want the shipment of oil a problem....

Let them signal their terror cells, we would then have perfect proof for the rest of the world that they indeed are involved in terrorist activities. (we already know this, but Europe, the UN, and our own Administration seem alittle dense to that fact....so I say, bring it on.....all will be out on the table, and we can take of several birds at the same time.

Didnt W get pretty criticized for that remark and even say later it was in poor taste? Would you be so eager for them to "bring it on" after a few thousand Americans were killed in attacks? Shouldnt we be preventing catastrophes if at all possible?

 

[BlackLantern]

we should keep it contained to Iran...make it clear that this whole thing stays IN Iran and doesn't spill out

 

[Superman4ever]

ok.....

Please.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
http://www.serendipity.li/cia/cia_terr.html
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/us_terr_st.htm

Forget the CIA, take the President or the House or the Senate. Justify the War in Iraq. Simple, right? Justify one point that allowed us to go into a foreign country under falsified information and reasoning and then tell me the US is NOT the world's leading producer of terrorism. One million Iraqis dead. 2-3 million displaced. Iraq is the leading producer of widows and the world's largest example of brain drain. Cause preemptively attacking and massacring a country with no plausible army, navy, air force, surface to air defense system or weaponry (WMD not included) was absolutely necessary and right and good and awesome, right!?

But, it's all the "terrorists" fault right? Cause Saddam was SO not trained by the CIA (and neither was Osama), and the Ba'ath (or the Taliban for that matter) were NEVER backed by us. Or it was the Iranian terror cells. Or it's "counter-terrorism". Or it's "tragic, but collateral damage is a necessary...blah blah blah." Bombing Iraq to hell and back with depleted uranium couldn't possibly be our doing.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Thats a whole 'nother can of worms, S4e. This is the Iran thread.

 

[BlackLantern]

no one (for the exception of StorminNorman) is advocating going into Iran....we should SO stay out of it, but we should be making sure that information is getting out to the rest of the world

 

[Kelly]

Didnt W get pretty criticized for that remark and even say later it was in poor taste? Would you be so eager for them to "bring it on" after a few thousand Americans were killed in attacks? Shouldnt we be preventing catastrophes if at all possible?

Hmmmm.....that or the "Dead or Alive" comment....

What can I say, we Texans are alittle dramatc in our rhetoric....we either sound like we are "bringing the Ghetto back up..." or "a John Wayne movie".

t:

 

[Hobgoblin]

Hmmmm.....that or the "Dead or Alive" comment....

What can I say, we Texans are alittle dramatc in our rhetoric....we either sound like we are "bringing the Ghetto back up..." or "a John Wayne movie".

t:

Hmm...maybe cool headedness is an Illinois trait...

 

[Kelly]

Maybe....

 

[Paradyme]

I heard Amy has put forth an investigation into the death of Neda. He claims its probably 'the enemies of Iran' that killed her.

Heres an article on it

Ahmadinejad Calls for Investigation Into 'Suspicious' Death of Neda Soltan

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad asked Iran's cleric-controlled judiciary on Monday to investigate the killing of Neda Agha Soltan, who became an icon of Iran's ragtag opposition after gruesome video of her bleeding to death on a Tehran street was circulated worldwide.

Ahmadinejad's Web site said Soltan was slain by "unknown agents and in a suspicious" way, convincing him that "enemies of the nation" were responsible.

The regime has implicated protesters and even foreign intelligence agents in Soltan's death. But an Iranian doctor who said he tried to save her told the BBC last week she apparently was shot by a member of the volunteer Basij militia. Protesters spotted an armed member of the militia on a motorcycle, and stopped and disarmed him, Dr. Arash Hejazi said.

Authorities have cracked down hard on dissent, most recently on Sunday, when riot police clashed with up to 3,000 protesters near the Ghoba Mosque in north Tehran. It was Iran's first major post-election unrest in four days.

Witnesses told The Associated Press that police used tear gas and clubs to break up the crowd, and said some demonstrators suffered broken bones. They alleged that security forces beat an elderly woman, prompting a screaming match with young demonstrators who then fought back.

The reports could not be independently verified because of tight restrictions imposed on journalists in Iran.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529391,00.html?test=latestnews

 

[StorminNorman]

Didnt W get pretty criticized for that remark and even say later it was in poor taste? Would you be so eager for them to "bring it on" after a few thousand Americans were killed in attacks? Shouldnt we be preventing catastrophes if at all possible?

That's what I am suggesting...presenting the catastrophe of a government killing innocent civilians for the cause of stomping out freedom and liberty.

 

[Marx]

I heard Amy has put forth an investigation into the death of Neda. He claims its probably 'the enemies of Iran' that killed her.

Heres an article on it

 

[Paradyme]

Exactly and in other completely surprising news...

Iran says recount shows election valid

Iranian officials have declared the hotly disputed presidential election to be correct after a partial recount.

State television reports that Guardian Council Secretary Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati presented Minister of the Interior Sadegh Mahsouli a letter Monday saying the council has approved the election after a recount of 10 percent of the ballots.

Requests for a new election and allegations of voting irregularities have been rejected.

Opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi claims he, not incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is the rightful winner of the June 12 election, and has called for a new election.

.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090629/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election

 

[StorminNorman]

Well if Iran said it was valid, nothing to see here.