The Issue of Hulk and Civilian Deaths

[Dangerous]

So, The incredible Hulk.

While he has always been one of my favorite comicbook characters, I've always thought he only barely fits into what could be considered a 'Superhero'. To me he is more of a tortured soul wanting to be left alone, or a rampaging engine of destruction.

I fondly recall (and now via youtube can re-view) the 1982 cartoon. In that show they took more of a hero angle with Hulk similar to the theme of TIH. Hulk was a misunderstood creature, but at the same time he performed heroic deeds and saved people.

I thought that show was great, but I think Hulk is portrayed most realistic and effective when he is the savage beast who cares little about who or what gets in his way. I don't read current Hulk comics, but when I think of this incarnation I recall the 1998 relaunch, I think that was volume 2.

Re: TIH- Here they are focusing on the theme of Hulk being a hero as Bruce decides to harness the Hulk's strength towards stopping Abomination. That's cool, but I just wonder if since Marvel are aiming this film at everyone, they are not going to address the issue of civilian death. The way I see it in a world in which Hulk exists, at some point, he is going to inadvertently kill people.

In the clip from the 2nd trailer in which Hulk leaps from a glass corridor, you can see a chunk of concrete fly towards a solider.
This would kill him if it was a direct hit, but I get the feeling that Hulk is not going to be causing any collateral deaths in the new film and this bothers me as it's not exactly realistic. Anyone else feel the same?

 

[Valorman]

he causes deaths. he kills the solders in the helicopter attacking him to save betty, as well as killing blonskys men with the huge liquid tank in the warehouse scene. i have a feeling he will only cause deaths when it's in some type of self defense situation, which doesn't bother me, he's a hero, not a murderer. besides, this hulk is portrayed as much smarter in this movie, with obvious skill for utilizing his environment and purposeful movements as well, i think he'd avoid killing those who simply stood in the wrong place at the wrong time, his anger is fueled at those who anger him. cutting to a shot of a civilian watching, only to have rubble the hulk tossed aside kill them for simply being around the hulk seems like a disappointing way to film and distract attention from a fight anyway IMO.

 

[Dangerous]

cool, I have been staying away from the clips.

 

[Sentinel X]

I never understood the big gripe of this.
Its a huge 10 foot, half ton crazy guy with no rationale...of course he is going to kill people accidently. Whats the big deal?
Iron Man killed people INTENTIONALLY and nobody seemed to have cared, why is it different for the Hulk?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So, The incredible Hulk.

While he has always been one of my favorite comicbook characters, I've always thought he only barely fits into what could be considered a 'Superhero'. To me he is more of a tortured soul wanting to be left alone, or a rampaging engine of destruction.

I fondly recall (and now via youtube can re-view) the 1982 cartoon. In that show they took more of a hero angle with Hulk similar to the theme of TIH. Hulk was a misunderstood creature, but at the same time he performed heroic deeds and saved people.

I thought that show was great, but I think Hulk is portrayed most realistic and effective when he is the savage beast who cares little about who or what gets in his way. I don't read current Hulk comics, but when I think of this incarnation I recall the 1998 relaunch, I think that was volume 2.

Re: TIH- Here they are focusing on the theme of Hulk being a hero as Bruce decides to harness the Hulk's strength towards stopping Abomination. That's cool, but I just wonder if since Marvel are aiming this film at everyone, they are not going to address the issue of civilian death. The way I see it in a world in which Hulk exists, at some point, he is going to inadvertently kill people.

In the clip from the 2nd trailer in which Hulk leaps from a glass corridor, you can see a chunk of concrete fly towards a solider.
This would kill him if it was a direct hit, but I get the feeling that Hulk is not going to be causing any collateral deaths in the new film and this bothers me as it's not exactly realistic. Anyone else feel the same?

If Hulk kills people in this movie, then it is not the Hulk i know and love, and i wont even watch it possibly.

 

[Sentinel X]

One down. Millions more left.
I'll live

 

[November Rain]

considering iron man happily killed, not sure they really give a monkeys about killing people who are 'bad'

as for everyone else, especially soldiers who are just doing their jobs, not entirely sure what my stance is but the best approach is the seriously harm them but not cause any deaths..

I feel the time when he starts killing innocents is a time when his angle has to be completely changed and reworked.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

considering iron man happily killed, not sure they really give a monkeys about killing people who are 'bad'

as for everyone else, especially soldiers who are just doing their jobs, not entirely sure what my stance is but the best approach is the seriously harm them but not cause any deaths..

I feel the time when he starts killing innocents is a time when his angle has to be completely changed and reworked.

 

[Shivsguy616]

If Hulk kills people in this movie, then it is not the Hulk i know and love, and i wont even watch it possibly.

Lol.

 

[Ultraman Nexus]

It's an issue of some debate and I'm not certain I'm totally on board with superheroes killing myself. In many ways it runs totally counter to everything they stand for. At the same time, it is true that in order to do their jobs it is something police officers and soldiers do.

But I also think sometimes people just want to see superheroes abuse their powers in really violent ways which misses the entire friggin point. That's one thing that bothers me about the otherwise awesome trailers we've been seeing is that one shot of Banner smiling while he's got the glowing eyes. Banner shouldn't be getting off on his power like that. It's out of character.

In the case of the Hulk, I basically fall on the side of the tv series that says the creature himself is not actually evil or a killer. At the very least not a cold-blooded one. But I would allow that given both his being a creature born out of rage and a creature who doesn't have a real understanding of the world around him that in situations like tanks and planes coming at him, Betty getting caught in the cross fire, etc. he would lash out to protect himself and her (or anyone else Hulk befriended). Within reason I can hang with that. I think it's important to remember that even though when he's the Hulk, Banner's great intellect receeds, his conscience is still at work in there somewhere.

But if they were to have Hulk going up to an enemy and squeezing their heads in his hands or any of that cannibal BS from Millar then I'm done with the franchise totally. Because at that point he's just a guy who turns into an evil monster and those are a dime a dozen. The Hulk is better than that.

 

[EmeraldBeast]

considering iron man happily killed, not sure they really give a monkeys about killing people who are 'bad'

as for everyone else, especially soldiers who are just doing their jobs, not entirely sure what my stance is but the best approach is the seriously harm them but not cause any deaths..

I feel the time when he starts killing innocents is a time when his angle has to be completely changed and reworked.

Especially soldiers, who at doing their jobs are trying to kill him, it's ok. The Hulk doesn't kill intentionally (old thread was huge about this) but does defend himself. Now, him busting out of a walkway happens to shoot debris around. The Hulk didn't throw a rock at the soldier. Two, the soldiers in the factory get run over just being in the way as Hulk is using the tank as a shield to move through the warehouse. He could've gone after Blonsky, but instead barrels through the wall to get out. He tossed the metal at the helicopter firing at him and Betty (he was protecting her from harm). In the final battle, the collateral damage is some innocent who has rock fall on him laying in the street (doesn't show him dead though) when Hulk falls into the street and emerges from the ground. Lastly, if you understood the dynamics of this iconic character, you would realize he is not a cold blooded killer, but will defend himself when necessary. Don't give people an excuse to change his dynamics in this thread or a soapbox to spew non-sense. Aveit, once again you emerge to fight the injustice of character changes when none are taking place, lol. Nice to see you again.

 

[ultimatefan]

It's an issue of some debate and I'm not certain I'm totally on board with superheroes killing myself. In many ways it runs totally counter to everything they stand for. At the same time, it is true that in order to do their jobs it is something police officers and soldiers do.

But I also think sometimes people just want to see superheroes abuse their powers in really violent ways which misses the entire friggin point. That's one thing that bothers me about the otherwise awesome trailers we've been seeing is that one shot of Banner smiling while he's got the glowing eyes. Banner shouldn't be getting off on his power like that. It's out of character.

In the case of the Hulk, I basically fall on the side of the tv series that says the creature himself is not actually evil or a killer. At the very least not a cold-blooded one. But I would allow that given both his being a creature born out of rage and a creature who doesn't have a real understanding of the world around him that in situations like tanks and planes coming at him, Betty getting caught in the cross fire, etc. he would lash out to protect himself and her (or anyone else Hulk befriended). Within reason I can hang with that. I think it's important to remember that even though when he's the Hulk, Banner's great intellect receeds, his conscience is still at work in there somewhere.

But if they were to have Hulk going up to an enemy and squeezing their heads in his hands or any of that cannibal BS from Millar then I'm done with the franchise totally. Because at that point he's just a guy who turns into an evil monster and those are a dime a dozen. The Hulk is better than that.

Yeah, in that sense Hulk is not like Superman or Spider-Man. He acts on instinct, kinda like an animal, and doesn´t always have full control of his powers. In the helicopter scene, he was just defending Betty and acted without thinking, I don´t think he clearly intended to kill the pilot.

 

[Nivek]

If the Hulk kills people, so does Superman, Captain America, Batman, Spider-man, Iron Man, and every major superhero.

This is a fun stupid topic to debate, like Superman having sex with a normal woman and not killing her, or Spider-man pooping web's out of his butt. But seriously, it has no place in any discussion about a fictional Superhero. this is a pure example of people lacking suspension of disbelief and an unwanted demand for realisim in escapist entertainment.

 

[EmeraldBeast]

If the Hulk kills people, so does Superman, Captain America, Batman, Spider-man, Iron Man, and every major superhero.

This is a fun stupid topic to debate, like Superman having sex with a normal woman and not killing her, or Spider-man pooping web's out of his butt. But seriously, it has no place in any discussion about a fictional Superhero. this is a pure example of people lacking suspension of disbelief and an unwanted demand for realisim in escapist entertainment.

Did anyone complain when Iron Man popped those guys over in the middle east? No. This thread is once again surfaced and needs to be buried somewhere. They had a thread like this a while ago, created a huge back and forth which was not constructive, got people banned and it was futile. The Mods should shut this down.

 

[Nivek]

I think this discussion is pointless. If you think the Hulk should kill, since the character doesn't kill, maybe you should find another character to be into. Maybe Mr. Hyde or Ultimate Hulk (same difference).

 

[SpaghettiHULK]

I think this discussion is pointless. If you think the Hulk should kill, since the character doesn't kill, maybe you should find another character to be into. Maybe Mr. Hyde or Ultimate Hulk (same difference).

 

[EmeraldBeast]

I think this discussion is pointless. If you think the Hulk should kill, since the character doesn't kill, maybe you should find another character to be into. Maybe Mr. Hyde or Ultimate Hulk (same difference).

Agreed. We are basically discussing a Frankensteinish brute here who has no ill will towards anyone who isn't trying to hurt or kill him. Man, wouldn't you hurt or kill if someone was trying to do the same to you? End of any furhter posts from me to this stupid thread.

 

[ultimatefan]

Maybe the best way to deal with this is to replace "kill" with "murder". Kill is something someone can do even by accident, murder is something intentional, thought through. Hulk may kill, but he doesn´t murder.

 

[terry78]

The Hulk is reactive, not proactive. That's how he's been in every incarnation, except the first ones and the Ultimates line where he was somewhat malicious. If you attack him once, he will attempt to stop the attack. If you're defenseless and cease the attack, he may view you with an angry glare, but if you're no longer a threat, he leaves. He's not an inherently sadistic creature, but smashing people in order to protect others or get his peace is all he knows. If something like him existed in real life and I knew the only reason he went off on peeps is because we bugged him, I'd just be indifferent and leave his ass be.

 

[Dangerous]

If the Hulk kills people, so does Superman, Captain America, Batman, Spider-man, Iron Man, and every major superhero.

Superman, No way never, same for Spidey.
Those guys would never want to anyone to be killed in any circumstance they are involved with and will do everything to prevent it.

This is a fun stupid topic to debate, like Superman having sex with a normal woman and not killing her, or Spider-man pooping web's out of his butt. But seriously, it has no place in any discussion about a fictional Superhero. this is a pure example of people lacking suspension of disbelief and an unwanted demand for realisim in escapist entertainment.

Actually I think it's a pretty damn relevant and interesting topic to discuss.
In Iron Man- shell head kills people intentionally, the enemy- those who are trying to kill him. But Hulk does not possess the same consideration and awareness when it comes to the choice to kill. Perhaps some of the deaths he causes in the new film are in adverted occurences, or perhaps they are all just retaliation towards the enemy.

Either way I think it is an interesting and relevant enough topic to dissect in terms of 1)Hulk's perspective and 2) how graphically Marvel are willing to portray such deaths in a PG-13.

If you don't want to contribute that's fine, but don't try to shoot down the validity of this thread because you have nothing to offer.

 

[Dangerous]

Especially soldiers, who at doing their jobs are trying to kill him, it's ok. The Hulk doesn't kill intentionally (old thread was huge about this) but does defend himself. Now, him busting out of a walkway happens to shoot debris around. The Hulk didn't throw a rock at the soldier. Two, the soldiers in the factory get run over just being in the way as Hulk is using the tank as a shield to move through the warehouse. He could've gone after Blonsky, but instead barrels through the wall to get out. He tossed the metal at the helicopter firing at him and Betty (he was protecting her from harm). In the final battle, the collateral damage is some innocent who has rock fall on him laying in the street (doesn't show him dead though) when Hulk falls into the street and emerges from the ground. Lastly, if you understood the dynamics of this iconic character, you would realize he is not a cold blooded killer, but will defend himself when necessary. Don't give people an excuse to change his dynamics in this thread or a soapbox to spew non-sense. Aveit, once again you emerge to fight the injustice of character changes when none are taking place, lol. Nice to see you again.

Good points.

Hulk is not a cold blooded killer, but there are civilian deaths for those caught in the crossfire.
That and of course, he kills his enemies.

 

[ArtTeacher]

Superman, No way never, same for Spidey.
Those guys would never want to anyone to be killed in any circumstance they are involved with and will do everything to prevent it.

Doomsday punches Superman through 3 buildings.

All three buildings just happened to be completely abandoned?

I don't think so.

Oh, and Gwen Stacy died on Spidey's watch.

Many times in comics, the narration will say something like, "Their punches land with enough force to register a 5 on the Richter scale. Miles away windows shatter," etc. So, a level 5 earthquake can kill people...so can that fight, then.

Batman doesn't finish the job with the Joker. So, every person the Joker kills after that is on Batman's head, right?

 

[Nivek]

*groan* Hulk doesn't blatently kill people. End of Story. Not even his enemies. He threatens death, but never does the deed intentionally.

 

[Raiden]

Hulk doesn't "hulk-out" just to kill people; he just instinctly tried to protect himself and the person he loves (Betty), and if his action somehow caused the death of those who wanted to hurt him, it was only an act of self-defense. I don't see why Hulk should be blamed for it.

 

[ArtTeacher]

Exactly.
If you flick a rattlesnake in the head repeatedly and then it finally bites you, is it the rattlesnake's fault for doing anything other than what it was designed to do?