TIH as a Sequel to Hulk '03

[Chris Wallace]

I'm not buying that. It's like saying "The Dark Knight" is a sequel to the '89 "Batman".

 

[Warhammer]

It can be seen as a sequel if the viewer wants to see it that way. Contrary to earlier comments, producer's have said as much:-

http://www.collider.com/entertainment/interviews/article.asp/aid/8230/tcid/1

I really can't see anything in the movie that outright contradicts the first film. Even the prologue over the credits could be seen as a dream by Banner. The characters are all where they were at the end of Hulk, Kal Penn stated that he was originally writing it as a sequel (in the vein of Aliens, same universe different style), and Gale Ann Hurd has stated on numerous occasions (one of which is above) that it can be viewed as a sequel. The whole reboot thing was a marketing strategy (that didn't work as far as boxoffice is concerned) which was designed to distance it from Hulk, but at the end of the day it was originally concieved as a sequel.

So if you want a reboot, then its a reboot and their marketing worked, but if you want a sequel then you got what you were waiting for.

It is a sad thing when the producer of a film does not know what she is talking about. The film is clearly a standalone film, with no connection to Hulk. The only people who who view the two films as connected are the ones that want them to be connected. Simply, it is not the case. It is just amazing how there are people out there that say that without Hulk, The Incredible Hulk is incoherent and without enough story. The opening titles was just as long as the scene in Batman when Bruce Wayne realized that the Jack Napier killed his parents. The Incredible Hulk had just as much of an origin story as Batman did, and people aren't complaining about that.

If people want to talk about incoherent, how about the incoherency that is there if The Incredible Hulk really was a sequel to Hulk. In Hulk, General Ross is a 4-star general who views Banner/Hulk as a threat to the world, as well as the product of the experiments he stopped David Banner (the father) from doing. In The Incredible Hulk, General Ross is a 3-star general who is bent on reviving bio-force experiments (super soldiers). He manipulates Banner into doing experiments under the impression that the experiments will make people immune to gamma radiation. After Banner transforms into the Hulk, Ross is bent on catching Hulk because he wants to do experiments on him to further his experiments on the super soldier program.

- Why is Ross demoted from a 4-star general to a 3-star general?
- Why has Ross suddenly turned from a general stopping a threat against mankind into a corrupt general bent on reviving the super soldier program, manipulating and doing whatever he can to get it done?
- If Ross found Banner, why is Banner not on lockdown?
- Why would Banner be allowed to openly do experiments with gamma radiation when Ross and the government knows damn well that he can transform into the Hulk?

And that is just the incoherency with General Ross. I could go on and on. Anybody, feel free to try and give some answers to those questions, and please, no excuses. Give solid answers to those questions, and I will believe that the films are connected.

 

[co2]

- Why is Ross demoted from a 4-star general to a 3-star general?

He was demoted after his mishandling of the events in Hulk.

- Why has Ross suddenly turned from a general stopping a threat against mankind into a corrupt general bent on reviving the super soldier program, manipulating and doing whatever he can to get it done?

The super soldier angle is a front he uses so the government will allow him to continue to pursue Banner, because he hates that his daughter is in love with Bruce. It's personal. That's not a stretch, because that's quite apparent in TIH anyway as it was obvisous in Hulk. So that's the same.

- If Ross found Banner, why is Banner not on lockdown?

huh? When did he find Banner? You're just making stuff up now!

- Why would Banner be allowed to openly do experiments with gamma radiation when Ross and the government knows damn well that he can transform into the Hulk?

And this is an assumption you make also. In the opening credits, Bruce and Betty could have recruited help from former collegues to perform an experiment that might cure him. You don't see Ross until Bruce transforms, so maybe Ross happened to discover them at that moment. So Ross knew nothing about it.









........I know all of the above is B.S., I'm just trying to watch you frustrate yourself.
We know TIH is not a sequel. The film makers have expressly said it and the film pretty much does too, but...I just wanted to show that there are ways around all of this stuff. The most indicting thing is even given all of the above, Ross tells Blonsky that Banner experimented on himself, which Bruce NEVER did in Hulk.........uuunnnnnless, Ross was lying to Blonsky to vilainize Bruce.
hehe t:

 

[Warhammer]

He was demoted after his mishandling of the events in Hulk.

Sure, I can give you that, but that is more of an assumption than anything.

The super soldier angle is a front he uses so the government will allow him to continue to pursue Banner, because he hates that his daughter is in love with Bruce. It's personal. That's not a stretch, because that's quite apparent in TIH anyway as it was obvisous in Hulk. So that's the same.

The super soldier angle being a front is a stretch. There is nothing in the film that implies that Ross still has a vendetta against Hulk solely because Betty still loves him. That doesn't hold water especially since Betty moved on with dating Samson.

huh? When did he find Banner? You're just making stuff up now!

If The Incredible Hulk was a sequel, then Ross would have had to find Banner in order for that flashback in the opening titles to have happened.

And this is an assumption you make also. In the opening credits, Bruce and Betty could have recruited help from former collegues to perform an experiment that might cure him. You don't see Ross until Bruce transforms, so maybe Ross happened to discover them at that moment. So Ross knew nothing about it.

You see Ross standing up in front of a desk. He did not just stumble upon them. He was already there.

........I know all of the above is B.S., I'm just trying to watch you frustrate yourself.

But it's not BS, and I am not frustrating myself. I'm just proving a point, and trying to correct some people.

We know TIH is not a sequel. The film makers have expressly said it and the film pretty much does too, but...I just wanted to show that there are ways around all of this stuff. The most indicting thing is even given all of the above, Ross tells Blonsky that Banner experimented on himself, which Bruce NEVER did in Hulk.........uuunnnnnless, Ross was lying to Blonsky to vilainize Bruce.
hehe t:

You did. Clearly by the posts from the thread starter and other posters, they did not. All you did was try to prove me wrong for no reason, and you didn't even do that right.

 

[co2]

All you did was try to prove me wrong for no reason, and you didn't even do that right.

Now, now. I thought I made it clear that I was kidding, so no, I was not trying to prove you wrong...Didn't I agree with you that it wasn't a sequel?

Though, I do have to completely disagree with what you said about Ross not having a vendetta with Banner over Betty. I think that is quite clear. When Bruce makes the campus transformation, Ross says "Now she'll see." Why do you think he said that? And when Bruce is captured at Stern's lab and is being wheeled out on the gurney, Ross leans in and whispers "If you took it from me I'm going to put you in a hole for the rest of your life". What do you think he's talking about? It has nothing to do with the Super Soldier program. He's talking about his relationship with his daughter. It's personal with Ross. Always has been. That's one thing both movies managed to accurately take right from the comics. So on that point, I was serious...but everything else, I was only teasing because you were getting wound up.

 

[myway]

Great find Tomahawk!

 

[Chris Wallace]

Now, now. I thought I made it clear that I was kidding, so no, I was not trying to prove you wrong...Didn't I agree with you that it wasn't a sequel?

Though, I do have to completely disagree with what you said about Ross not having a vendetta with Banner over Betty. I think that is quite clear. When Bruce makes the campus transformation, Ross says "Now she'll see." Why do you think he said that? And when Bruce is captured at Stern's lab and is being wheeled out on the gurney, Ross leans in and whispers "If you took it from me I'm going to put you in a hole for the rest of your life". What do you think he's talking about? It has nothing to do with the Super Soldier program. He's talking about his relationship with his daughter. It's personal with Ross. Always has been. That's one thing both movies managed to accurately take right from the comics. So on that point, I was serious...but everything else, I was only teasing because you were getting wound up.

Uh-uh. The "it" that Ross was referring to was clearly the Hulk. He knew what Bruce was doing at Sterns' Lab. He knew Bruce had been trying to cure himself. If he meant that Bruce had ruined his relationship with Betty, he wouldn't have phrased it like that. (It would've been "If you took her from me".) It falls right in line with his previous statement about Bruce's body being property of the government. Hell, his relationship with Betty was already strained when the movie started, & possibly annihilated during the campus fight. He could no longer blame Bruce for that. And he showed little concern for Betty in that selfsame scene. "It's only because you're my daughter that you're not in handcuffs." So no, I don't agree with you at all.
I'm also glad to know you weren't seriously defending the sequel notion. I was going to ask you, if the super soldier serum was a front, where'd they get the batch that created the Abomination?

 

[co2]

Uh-uh. The "it" that Ross was referring to was clearly the Hulk. He knew what Bruce was doing at Sterns' Lab. He knew Bruce had been trying to cure himself. If he meant that Bruce had ruined his relationship with Betty, he wouldn't have phrased it like that. (It would've been "If you took her from me".) It falls right in line with his previous statement about Bruce's body being property of the government. Hell, his relationship with Betty was already strained when the movie started, & possibly annihilated during the campus fight. He could no longer blame Bruce for that. And he showed little concern for Betty in that selfsame scene. "It's only because you're my daughter that you're not in handcuffs." So no, I don't agree with you at all.
I'm also glad to know you weren't seriously defending the sequel notion. I was going to ask you, if the super soldier serum was a front, where'd they get the batch that created the Abomination?

You may have a point about the "took it from me" statement. But how do you explain Ross's "Now she'll see", statement if he doesn't hold a personal grudge against Bruce because of Betty? Ross isn't obsessed with Bruce over the SS serum. He's not motivated to "cash in" on Bruce's research. That doesn't make sense. Sure, securing Banner would help do something for the super soldier research, but it's much more about Ross's vindication...a lot of that being linked to Betty. I don't buy the accusation that Ross doesn't care about Betty anymore. He just cares more about being "right".
And that was my point when I used the word "front". Of course I didn't mean the SS serum was fake (come on now!), but that it was more of an excuse, or front, for Ross to pursue Banner. It's a personal motivation for Ross more than anything else. I thought the movie made that quite clear.

And wait...I was reponding to War Hammer. You aren't masquerading under two usernames are you?

 

[Gamma Ra]

THIS RULES!!!! HAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

 

[SPIDER-MAN-ROX]

IMO take away all the comic book characters names besides "Bruce Banner" & give everyone else different names & this would feel more like a big budget & updated adaptation of the live action TV series except with a more powerful version the Hulk.

Was Hulk's leaping completely disregarded from the movie on purpose or was it still implied that it was his prefered method of travel except they didn't really have to show it? Like how did Hulk get from the college campus with Betty & end up at the cave, did he run there with her in his arms, walk there with her in his arms or did he leap there with her?

 

[Chris Wallace]

You may have a point about the "took it from me" statement. But how do you explain Ross's "Now she'll see", statement if he doesn't hold a personal grudge against Bruce because of Betty? Ross isn't obsessed with Bruce over the SS serum. He's not motivated to "cash in" on Bruce's research. That doesn't make sense. Sure, securing Banner would help do something for the super soldier research, but it's much more about Ross's vindication...a lot of that being linked to Betty. I don't buy the accusation that Ross doesn't care about Betty anymore. He just cares more about being "right".
And that was my point when I used the word "front". Of course I didn't mean the SS serum was fake (come on now!), but that it was more of an excuse, or front, for Ross to pursue Banner. It's a personal motivation for Ross more than anything else. I thought the movie made that quite clear.

And wait...I was reponding to War Hammer. You aren't masquerading under two usernames are you?

Nope. I never said that the grudge didn't exist. Only that the remark about "you took it from me" didn't demonstrate it. He cared about Betty but he cared about his project more, or he wouldn't have injected Blonsky to begin with.

 

[Chris Wallace]

IMO take away all the comic book characters names besides "Bruce Banner" & give everyone else different names & this would feel more like a big budget & updated adaptation of the live action TV series except with a more powerful version the Hulk.

Was Hulk's leaping completely disregarded from the movie on purpose or was it still implied that it was his prefered method of travel except they didn't really have to show it? Like how did Hulk get from the college campus with Betty & end up at the cave, did he run there with her in his arms, walk there with her in his arms or did he leap there with her?

I think they just chose not to show him leaping. I still think he could jump, but since most of the environments shown in the movie didn't accomodate it, it was just left out.
And this movie in no way felt like a TV episode to me. There were references, yes, but it was a far cry from the "HINO" that so many of us grew up with.

 

[Warhammer]

Now, now. I thought I made it clear that I was kidding, so no, I was not trying to prove you wrong...Didn't I agree with you that it wasn't a sequel?

Though, I do have to completely disagree with what you said about Ross not having a vendetta with Banner over Betty. I think that is quite clear. When Bruce makes the campus transformation, Ross says "Now she'll see." Why do you think he said that?

Ross said "Now she'll see" because he wants to show Betty how much of a danger Hulk really is, and that the man she loves turns into that monster. It's like "Yeah, now she'll really see what she thinks she loves" kind of mentality. It makes sense since Betty had only seen Banner transform into the Hulk for a brief period of time in the lab, and holds no grudge against Banner for it because she still loves him. It's not a vendetta over Banner because of Betty. He merely wants Betty to know that that monster is what she has been crying her nights over.

And when Bruce is captured at Stern's lab and is being wheeled out on the gurney, Ross leans in and whispers "If you took it from me I'm going to put you in a hole for the rest of your life". What do you think he's talking about? It has nothing to do with the Super Soldier program. He's talking about his relationship with his daughter. It's personal with Ross. Always has been. That's one thing both movies managed to accurately take right from the comics. So on that point, I was serious...but everything else, I was only teasing because you were getting wound up.

Uh-uh. The "it" that Ross was referring to was clearly the Hulk. He knew what Bruce was doing at Sterns' Lab. He knew Bruce had been trying to cure himself. If he meant that Bruce had ruined his relationship with Betty, he wouldn't have phrased it like that. (It would've been "If you took her from me".) It falls right in line with his previous statement about Bruce's body being property of the government. Hell, his relationship with Betty was already strained when the movie started, & possibly annihilated during the campus fight. He could no longer blame Bruce for that. And he showed little concern for Betty in that selfsame scene. "It's only because you're my daughter that you're not in handcuffs." So no, I don't agree with you at all.
I'm also glad to know you weren't seriously defending the sequel notion. I was going to ask you, if the super soldier serum was a front, where'd they get the batch that created the Abomination?

Chris Wallace sums up my feelings right there about that.

You seem to be trying to yank my chain for some reason. I am not mad. This isn't a discussion on religion or politics. It's about the Hulk out of all things.

 

[co2]

Ross said "Now she'll see" because he wants to show Betty how much of a danger Hulk really is, and that the man she loves turns into that monster. It's like "Yeah, now she'll really see what she thinks she loves" kind of mentality. It makes sense since Betty had only seen Banner transform into the Hulk for a brief period of time in the lab, and holds no grudge against Banner for it because she still loves him. It's not a vendetta over Banner because of Betty. He merely wants Betty to know that that monster is what she has been crying her nights over.

I don't see how those things are so removed from one another?

You seem to be trying to yank my chain for some reason. I am not mad. This isn't a discussion on religion or politics. It's about the Hulk out of all things.

And that was my point also. That's why I made light of how involved and heated the conversations seemed to be going. I was trying to diffuse it believe it or not. It wasn't specifically aimed at you.

 

[Warhammer]

I don't see how those things are so removed from one another?

Ross wants Betty to know what Banner has become to prove that she wasted all of her love to a monster. Sorta like "Now do you see what you thought you loved." It's not like there could not have been a grudge, but there is simply not enough evidence to support that argument.

And that was my point also. That's why I made light of how involved and heated the conversations seemed to be going. I was trying to diffuse it believe it or not. It wasn't specifically aimed at you.

There were no insults or cussing in anybody's posts in this thread. There is nothing wrong with heated conversations if they are handled like adults.

 

[co2]

There is nothing wrong with heated conversations if they are handled like adults.

Well we agree, so I guess nobody did anything wrong.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Ross said "Now she'll see" because he wants to show Betty how much of a danger Hulk really is, and that the man she loves turns into that monster. It's like "Yeah, now she'll really see what she thinks she loves" kind of mentality. It makes sense since Betty had only seen Banner transform into the Hulk for a brief period of time in the lab, and holds no grudge against Banner for it because she still loves him. It's not a vendetta over Banner because of Betty. He merely wants Betty to know that that monster is what she has been crying her nights over.

Excellent point. Exactly how I saw it.
He cars about Betty, just not as much as he should, IMO.

 

[co2]

Excellent point. Exactly how I saw it.
He cars about Betty, just not as much as he should, IMO.

Wait...wasn't that what I said earlier?

 

[Chris Wallace]

We all see eye-to-eye I think, just to varying degrees.

 

[Symbiotic_Gamma]

This is thread to see how many people think TIH can viewed as a loose sequel to Hulk '03. I think it can and I thought a lot of people felt the same way but it came up on the Superman boards and I'm feeling like an outcast, haha. In no particular order and without getting to formalistic about it, there seems to me to be a list of evidence that supports TIH as a loose sequel. For starters, TIH has hardly any backstory shown in the movie. It seemed to me like the filmmakers assumed people saw Hulk '03 and rather than retread that ground they simply refered to it and crowbarred in the whole Super Soldier Serum aspect to tie the movie in with the planned Avengers movie. Bruce's relationship past relationship with Betty as well as the animus between Bruce and Gen Ross is basically mentioned in passing in TIH and again, this was all shown in Hulk '03 so it seems logical to conclude to me that if you want to see that playout, you can watch Hulk '03. Also, Hulk '03 ends with the Hulk known as a military threat on the lam in Brazil whereas TIH begins in the same place. All these points are looking at the two finished products of the movies in and of themselves without even beginning to go into the production history of TIH. Let's not forget the fact that TIH was originally going to be direct sequel to Hulk '03; the director has even said this. It seems to me like the two movies are inevitably linked, even if it's in a loose sense.

Even though it's certainley not.If you believe true enough It could looked at like well Ed norton's banner has grown even angrier so when he turns into the Hulk he becomes even more savage and mean. That is really only the connection I could come up with oh well.!

 

[supergeek37]

I don't see any way this could be considered a sequel other than the Hulk is in both of them, The incredible Hulk was great and the 03 Hulk was pretty terrible I tried watching it last week and it was going so slow I could'nt get through it. But I've seen The incredible Hulk 7 time sense I bought it.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

I was warned not to even see Hulk03 but I attempted to do it last Saturday night and it was unbearable... so now I see why a lot of others say that it was so bad. The only good thing in it was Connelly. Period. I've seen TIH 6 times now since I bought it on dvd...since TIH was the first Hulk movie I ever saw, I prefer Ed Norton's Banner/Hulk and its a very appreciative film. I rank it alongside Iron Man because they have a quality like-ness to them.

 

[co2]

Ya know...I have come to the conclusion that to like Hulk '03 you have to be at one of the two extremes.
A. A huge fan of Hulk comics of the 80's and 90's
or
B. Someone who knows absolutely nothing about the Hulk.

I would classify myself as group A. That is my era, and I thought it drew on a lot of stuff from that time, so I felt like that enabled me to appreciate it.
I do know people that I would place in group B, who knew nothing of the Hulk or his history (other than he is a big, green monster) and came away saying, " That was an interesting and original take on a comic book/monster movie". They liked it.
Not saying that if you are in either of those groups you are guaranteed to like it, because you aren't, but I would say to like it, you do have to have one of those qualities. I think if you have a passing to general knowledge of the Hulk or are more steeped in pre 80's or post 90' comics...or TV show only, you are probably not going to find value in it because it doesn't fit within your frame of reference for the Hulk.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Most of the people I know who know nothing about the Hulk (apart from the TV series) hated the movie.

 

[co2]

Most of the people I know who know nothing about the Hulk (apart from the TV series) hated the movie.

Yeah, that was why I mentioned not being familiar with the TV show either. The people that I mentioned liking it were in their mid 20's so the TV show was before their time. They aren't into comics, but they are film fans.