TIH as a Sequel to Hulk '03

[Warhammer]

What about the POV that TIH doesn't offer enough character interaction or background to make the relationships credible so you have to look to Hulk '03?

That is your personal preference that there is not enough character interaction and background. In a film, it does not need to be spelled out to you in every little detail in order to show something. You choose to look at Hulk to justify things in The Incredible Hulk.

The inconsistencies with the two movies are also not as significant as people think.

So you just stated that there are inconsistencies. Why is this conversation not over? The inconsistencies are more than just production goofs. These are major plot points between the two films that you can't seem to differentiate.

It's been a few months since I've seen TIH but how exactly are Gen Ross's motives different? They both think Hulk is a freak and danger to Betty and the world.

General Ross from Hulk had history with Bruce Banner's father, and feared that Bruce Banner would follow in his footsteps. He feared that Hulk was a danger, and the product of Banner's father's experiment.

General Ross from The Incredible Hulk viewed Banner as a weapon. He tricked Banner into doing experiments under the impression that they would make humans immune to gamma radiation. In actuality, Ross wanted to revive a military project. He wants to catch Banner in order to do experiments on him, and find out more about his transformation, among other things.

Hell, the personalities of the two Ross's are different.

Seriously, the "back story" in TIH lasts for like 2 min. In both movies, Bruce gets exposed to radiation when an experiment goes awry and then goes on the run from the military and hides out in Brazil.

Both experiments that go awry are completely different. Both Ross's hunt Banner down for different reasons. They just so happen to hide out in Brazil at some point. Just like Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four just so happen to be in NYC. Do you need more clarification?

The fact that in one movie he was testing on himself and in the other he jumped in front of the machine to save someone else isn't enough for me disregard a movie that I really like. I guess part of it comes down to this; I really liked Hulk '03 and thought TIH failed as a stand alone movie.

Just because you felt it failed as a standalone film does not mean that you can make your own canon by believing a film is a sequel to another different film.

Most of the people who disagree with me probably didn't like Hulk '03 but loved TIH.

No, people disagree with you because they do not wish for two different films to be tied together when they are not. The truth of all of this is that it does not matter how hard you argue for your case on these two movies, you will always be wrong. It does not matter what you think. It does not matter what you wish to believe. The fact is that Hulk and The Incredible Hulk are not connected. End of story. The end. Roll credits.

 

[Obi-Ron]

It's been a few months since I've seen TIH but how exactly are Gen Ross's motives different? They both think Hulk is a freak and danger to Betty and the world.

Sam Elliott's Ross was concerned about catching/stopping the monster - he was portrayed closer to the original comic's concept of the villagers chasing Frankenstein's monster with torches and pitchforks.

William Hurt's general wanted to capture the Hulk to exploit his power...he was more like Talbot in the original movie, or maybe Paul Reiser in "Aliens"...overall a weaker, more 2-dimensional take on the character IMO.

edit: I'm interested in seeing if there is a younger Ross in the Cap movie, having a hand in Captain America's origin, and if that affects how we look at the modern-day older version.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Sam Elliott's Ross was concerned about catching/stopping the monster - he was portrayed closer to the original comic's concept of the villagers chasing Frankenstein's monster with torches and pitchforks.

William Hurt's general wanted to capture the Hulk to exploit his power...he was more like Talbot in the original movie, or maybe Paul Reiser in "Aliens"...overall a weaker, more 2-dimensional take on the character IMO.
.

Well said Obi-Ron. Ross did seem more like Talbot from 2003.

 

[Sarg92]

Fingers crossed.
They obvisously made the film with a franchise in mind, from simply the last thing we see of Sterns in the film. That was a set-up if there ever was one.

Yep.

I remember reading an article with Aaron Simms in which he said that getting the chance to design Hulk and Abomination was great but also getting to do The Leader was a big bonus.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I say it can't be viewed as a sequel by anyone who is well-versed in the 2003 film.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Sam Elliott's Ross was concerned about catching/stopping the monster - he was portrayed closer to the original comic's concept of the villagers chasing Frankenstein's monster with torches and pitchforks.
William Hurt's general wanted to capture the Hulk to exploit his power...he was more like Talbot in the original movie, or maybe Paul Reiser in "Aliens"...overall a weaker, more 2-dimensional take on the character IMO.

edit: I'm interested in seeing if there is a younger Ross in the Cap movie, having a hand in Captain America's origin, and if that affects how we look at the modern-day older version.

I did feel that the 2003 Ross was the more faithful to the comics of the 2 portrayals, Ross in the comics was always more concerned with destroying the Hulk than utilising him for his own gains.

I say it can't be viewed as a sequel by anyone who is well-versed in the 2003 film.

I cant view it as a sequel at all, even when I watch them back-to-back.

 

[co2]

I think what I can do is this.....

I'll view the flashback sequences of Bruce in the Gamma chair, as an attempt he made to cure himself with Betty's aid which resulted in him hurting her. So he was already the Hulk in those scenes, but was trying to cure himself. If you think of it like that...VIOLA'..you can think of it as a sequel.

Hey...ya gotta give me credit for trying.

 

[Warhammer]

That is a good one, but...

...there is more evidence leading towards Banner not already being able to transform into the Hulk. You'd figure as smart as Banner is, he would not just submit himself to more gamma radiation, let alone without protection around him or letting people be around him. Besides, you'd also think Ross would know if Banner had turned into the Hulk already, due to him being in charge of the experiments and manipulating Banner in doing them in the first place. Because of Ross's shocked look when he saw Hulk, I'm betting that was his first time seeing it.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I did feel that the 2003 Ross was the more faithful to the comics of the 2 portrayals, Ross in the comics was always more concerned with destroying the Hulk than utilising him for his own gains.



I cant view it as a sequel at all, even when I watch them back-to-back.

But aren't you well-versed?
I was discussing this very thing with a co-worker today, who said he hates when sequels don't pick up where the last one left off. He actually didn't understand that Marvel, Universal, et al. had gone out of their way to distance TIH from Hulk.
Am I the only fan who finds room in his heart for both?

 

[Chris Wallace]

I think what I can do is this.....

I'll view the flashback sequences of Bruce in the Gamma chair, as an attempt he made to cure himself with Betty's aid which resulted in him hurting her. So he was already the Hulk in those scenes, but was trying to cure himself. If you think of it like that...VIOLA'..you can think of it as a sequel.

Hey...ya gotta give me credit for trying.

Except, Ross' story about the super soldier serum, coupled with his already being familiar w/Bruce nullifies it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

But aren't you well-versed?
I was discussing this very thing with a co-worker today, who said he hates when sequels don't pick up where the last one left off. He actually didn't understand that Marvel, Universal, et al. had gone out of their way to distance TIH from Hulk.
Am I the only fan who finds room in his heart for both?

I love both movies also, was just saying I dont see them in continuity, I see them as two very good adaptations of the same character, with Ang Lee's effort, IMO being the better one.

 

[myway]

I think you've got the right idea Chris. I never thought about it that way, but that's another way things could sort of work too. TIH has such a scant backstory and Hulk was all backstory according to some (although I still like Hulk '03) so I think trying to mesh the two is a good idea. To me, they seem complimentary in that where one is strong, the other is weak and therefore they balance eachother out eg TIH is lacking in backstory and character development but aside from the awesome Army sequence in Hulk, all he had to fight was Hulk dogs and his father who kept becoming rocks, water, etc.

 

[SKSpawn]

Well, I loved The Incredible Hulk but also really enjoyed Ang Lee's Hulk so, in my mind, if I absolutely had to I can find some broad ways to loosely connect the two films, though I have no real problem with it as a reboot (just seems a bit too easy, but whatever):

First of, there's no Talbot in The Incredible Hulk, strongly hinting at a loose continuation as he presumably dies in Hulk.

But, you might say, The Incredible Hulk provides a whole new backstory. And I say: At the end of Hulk, Thunderbolt and Betty seemed to have repaired, or be repairing, their relationship and he seemed to have let go of his irrational hatred of all things Banner since the official word was that Bruce had died. Bruce was in South Africa (I think, Brzail maybe, I forget and suck at geography) helping others. Maybe, between the films, Bruce grew desperate or over confidant in his research and thought that, with Betty and Thunderbolt's help, he could cure his condition and, at the same time, help others.

So, maybe, Bruce contacted Betty and she arranged to bring him home and they starteda mini relationship while working on the Gamma machine. Thunderbolt put his faith in Bruce this one last time, trusting him only once to get it right, but Bruce mis-calculated/was wrong/was over confidant and the machine simply made things worse, causing him to Hulk out, wreck the lab and hurt Betty and causing Thunderbolt to lose any thin faith in Banner completely (basically the flashback sequence during the opening of The Incredible Hulk).

This explains: Bruce and Betty's more passionate relationship (she said she loved him at the end of Hulk, and if he came to her for help and with this proposition they could've maybe indulged their mutual afefctions and repaired their relationship), Thunderbolt's obsession at bringing both Bruce and the Hulk down (he trusted Bruce, he feels responsible, he wants to close the case forever) and Bruce's obsession with discovering the true cure to his condition.

Obviously, this is kind of thin, but I believe it's strong enough to provide a loose link between each film, and works pretty well.

 

[dcHulk]

TiH is completely unrelated. Under no circumstances could it be considered a sequel, loose or otherwise. I don't even understand why this is a thread. In my opinion.

 

[Doc Samson]

But aren't you well-versed?
I was discussing this very thing with a co-worker today, who said he hates when sequels don't pick up where the last one left off. He actually didn't understand that Marvel, Universal, et al. had gone out of their way to distance TIH from Hulk.
Am I the only fan who finds room in his heart for both?

No, not all, I love them both for different reasons, and hope that if we get another film, they can mix and match the things that worked in each one to give us the ultimate Hulk experience.

 

[co2]

I think you've got the right idea Chris. I never thought about it that way, but that's another way things could sort of work too. TIH has such a scant backstory and Hulk was all backstory according to some (although I still like Hulk '03) so I think trying to mesh the two is a good idea. To me, they seem complimentary in that where one is strong, the other is weak and therefore they balance eachother out eg TIH is lacking in backstory and character development but aside from the awesome Army sequence in Hulk, all he had to fight was Hulk dogs and his father who kept becoming rocks, water, etc.

That is so spot on.

I think most of us understand that TIH is absolutely not a sequel to Hulk, but are trying to find ways to consider it that, because we know that the best Hulk movie lies somewhere in between these two. That's why I really wish they had made TIH in a way that it wouldn't outright be discounted as being a sequel. If you can mash the first movie's backstory into the second films event, you have a really comeplete experience.

 

[chaos123x]

I consider TIH to be a loose sequel too.


Banner is in South America hiding from the army and thunderbolt at the end of 03. Thats where TIH starts off. How did he get from the village to the soda plant? How did the Rebels in Star Wars get to planet Hoth in Empire.


At the end of 03 Betty has sworn off her father and thinks bruce is missing or dead.

I could go on and on, it's clear that it was written as a sequel to 03 then tweaked later to resemble the TV show more so they could call it a reboot.

Is it a direct sequel??? NOPE! but a few tweaks and it could be, I could see someone watching both in a row thinking they went together though.

If not then TIH has no story and by itself the movie has no legs to stand on, it's just a brainless action movie.

It's like watching The lord of the rings but you cut out the first and last part and only watched the fight scenes from two towers.

 

[Warhammer]

 

[Cracker Jack]

^ Yeah you get a lot of that around here. t:

 

[Chris Wallace]

I consider TIH to be a loose sequel too.


Banner is in South America hiding from the army and thunderbolt at the end of 03. Thats where TIH starts off. How did he get from the village to the soda plant? How did the Rebels in Star Wars get to planet Hoth in Empire.


At the end of 03 Betty has sworn off her father and thinks bruce is missing or dead.

I could go on and on, it's clear that it was written as a sequel to 03 then tweaked later to resemble the TV show more so they could call it a reboot.

Is it a direct sequel??? NOPE! but a few tweaks and it could be, I could see someone watching both in a row thinking they went together though.

If not then TIH has no story and by itself the movie has no legs to stand on, it's just a brainless action movie.

It's like watching The lord of the rings but you cut out the first and last part and only watched the fight scenes from two towers.

A movie is either a sequel or it's not. There are simply no story elements that tie the two films together. The Hulk has a different origin here, different story, Ross is a different person. I don't even see how you could argue that it was written as a sequel.

 

[Sarg92]

Well if Leterrier decided to use Thailand to start the film then we wouldn't be having this talk of Ang's Hulk ended in South America and TIH started in South America. Leterrier did intend to have Banner in the slums of Thailand but then when he saw some footage or pics of the favelas in Brazil he saw it as a perfect location and changed it to Brazil.

 

[Doc Samson]

Well if Leterrier decided to use Thailand to start the film then we wouldn't be having this talk of Ang's Hulk ended in South America and TIH started in South America. Leterrier did intend to have Banner in the slums of Thailand but then when he saw some footage or pics of the favelas in Brazil he saw it as a perfect location and changed it to Brazil.

Exactly, it was really that simple. Not one character that's in both movies is even remotely the same, characterization-wise. I also think part of the reason the story is so fragmented is that Norton & Leterrier purposely left things out for the sequel they thought was inevitable. I don't think anyone involved wasn't confident TIH would blow Ang's out of the water at the box office. Add to that the stuff that was there that got cut, and I can understand where the story became so loose that it could fool someone into thinking it was a sequel. But that person would also have to be pretty gullible. Sadly, a good percentage of the world is...

 

[chaos123x]

Bottom line TIH had much better action (what the fans wanted)

But TIH had no back story it was just a vague reference to the TV Show, 03 and the comics.. it really never explained itself, if a viewer saw this and did not know anything about the Hulk before this movie, it would look worse then the movie Dragon Wars to them.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

To me, its a stand alone film. If Marvel said its a reboot, then its a reboot.

 

[tomahawk]

It can be seen as a sequel if the viewer wants to see it that way. Contrary to earlier comments, producer's have said as much:-

http://www.collider.com/entertainment/interviews/article.asp/aid/8230/tcid/1

I really can't see anything in the movie that outright contradicts the first film. Even the prologue over the credits could be seen as a dream by Banner. The characters are all where they were at the end of Hulk, Kal Penn stated that he was originally writing it as a sequel (in the vein of Aliens, same universe different style), and Gale Ann Hurd has stated on numerous occasions (one of which is above) that it can be viewed as a sequel. The whole reboot thing was a marketing strategy (that didn't work as far as boxoffice is concerned) which was designed to distance it from Hulk, but at the end of the day it was originally concieved as a sequel.

So if you want a reboot, then its a reboot and their marketing worked, but if you want a sequel then you got what you were waiting for.