Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[super85]

Its internet BS. I read some sort of theory how Joker is a "Hero to incels" etc.

The internet is such a messed up place sometimes.

 

[Boom]

The **** is an "incel?"

 

[Boy Scout]

I had to look it up myself a few days ago. Basically, if I’m remembering right, it’s a heterosexual man who’s decided to become celibate because women don’t want him.

Shockingly, the overwhelming majority of men who describe themselves, or are described, as such tend to be white and extremely conservative.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Incel means “IN-voluntary CEL-ibacy”

 

[MovieSlave]

I know what an Incel is but I don't see how that fits into this Joker movie.

 

[Greens]

I know what an Incel is but I don't see how that fits into this Joker movie.

It doesn't.

 

[MovieSlave]

It doesn't.

*sigh* So basically your typical Twitter/Tumblr types are grouping things together that don't make sense. I like how this movie is supposed to be tackling mental illness in a serious manner but those types want to turn it into a white males are all psycho shooters and "incels" too. Such morons. Outrage culture and all that encompasses it really needs to die off.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I believe the "incel" thing started because of the way they handle the romantic aspect of the film (assuming the spoilers are correct).

 

[Greens]

I believe the "incel" thing started because of the way they handle the romantic aspect of the film (assuming the spoilers are correct).

You're right, but calling it part of incel culture is just a stupid attempt to smear the filmmakers. It's just a ****ing story. Not everything has to be tied to real life groups or political leanings.

 

[Flint Marko]

And even if they are trying to draw some parallels with incels.... he’s a villain.

It’s a cheap way to both write off a movie for whatever reason and get some moral aggrandizing in while you’re there.

 

[Boom]

I guess I'm not quite clear why a man's sexual activity has anything to do with film.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Joker is volcel anyways

 

[MovieSlave]

Joker is volcel anyways

I always thought he was Asexual.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And even if they are trying to draw some parallels with incels.... he’s a villain.

It’s a cheap way to both write off a movie for whatever reason and get some moral aggrandizing in while you’re there.

The thing is, is the Joker a villain here? If he isn't, if he is some sort of tragic tale/anti-hero and that incel stuff is true... yikes.

 

[Greens]

I always thought he was Asexual.

You're so powerful.. and PURPLE! oooh I looove purple

 

[Greens]

The thing is, is the Joker a villain here? If he isn't, if he is some sort of tragic tale/anti-hero and that incel stuff is true... yikes.

Why is that particular murder so much worse than his other actions?

If you couple Fleck's deranged mind, fragile ego and the extreme sadness and feeling of rejection because of what happens it makes sense to me that he might cross a certain line. He's not on the ****ing incel subreddit making threads about "why won't anybody have sex with me???"

 

[Flint Marko]

The thing is, is the Joker a villain here? If he isn't, if he is some sort of tragic tale/anti-hero and that incel stuff is true... yikes.

Even I don't think they're that dumb. At the worst he may start out as initially sympathetic, but take a dark turn for the worst.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Even I don't think they're that dumb. At the worst he may start out as initially sympathetic, but take a dark turn for the worst.

That is the thing. There really shouldn't be any sympathy. The good boy that takes care of his mother, who is bullied and driven to madness by a harsh, unfair world. That is what I got from the trailer and that is all the justification some people need.

Why is that particular murder so much worse than his other actions?

If you couple Fleck's deranged mind, fragile ego and the extreme sadness and feeling of rejection because of what happens it makes sense to me that he might cross a certain line. He's not on the ****ing incel subreddit making threads about "why won't anybody have sex with me???"

My general feelings on it, is that whatever we are suppose to take from this movie, the Joker is going to be in someway glorified. They are making a film where he is the title character, and instead of the force of nature idea, he is a good man who seems to be driven mad by the world around him. They are playing off the idea that the Joker is popular, "cool", and in that way he is going to be the hero of his own story.

If this storyline played out, you are presenting a situation where the title character is going to be in some way justified in doing it in his own mind. And even if that isn't the actual message, that doesn't really matter. And yeah, being the equivalent of an incel in a 2019 movie, even if this was set during the dark ages, is sending a message. And the idea that they are writing a movie so heavily Scorsese and it doesn't have any sort of message to send feels rather folly. No movie is ever just a movie. But especially not one with a character like the Joker. Especially not one with the Joker as Travis Bickle.

 

[Schlosser85]

I always thought he was Asexual.

It's alluded to in the comics he's had sex with and/or raped women, but he's also all flirty with Batman half the time.

 

[I Am The Knight]

That is the thing. There really shouldn't be any sympathy. The good boy that takes care of his mother, who is bullied and driven to madness by a harsh, unfair world. That is what I got from the trailer and that is all the justification some people need.


My general feelings on it, is that whatever we are suppose to take from this movie, the Joker is going to be in someway glorified. They are making a film where he is the title character, and instead of the force of nature idea, he is a good man who seems to be driven mad by the world around him. They are playing off the idea that the Joker is popular, "cool", and in that way he is going to be the hero of his own story.

If this storyline played out, you are presenting a situation where the title character is going to be in some way justified in doing it in his own mind. And even if that isn't the actual message, that doesn't really matter. And yeah, being the equivalent of an incel in a 2019 movie, even if this was set during the dark ages, is sending a message. And the idea that they are writing a movie so heavily Scorsese and it doesn't have any sort of message to send feels rather folly. No movie is ever just a movie. But especially not one with a character like the Joker. Especially not one with the Joker as Travis Bickle.

It's like people think movies exist in a vacuum.

 

[MovieSlave]

It's alluded to in the comics he's had sex with and/or raped women, but he's also all flirty with Batman half the time.

It's been a long while since I've read my Batman comics so I guess I forgot about those moments.

 

[Schlosser85]

There's some monologue where he says killing is better than sex, because he's always in the mood for it.

 

[The Joker]

There's some monologue where he says killing is better than sex, because he's always in the mood for it.

What comics are these where its alluded to that he raped women? The only comic I know that did that was in the 2008 Joker graphic novel where its implied he raped his henchman Johnny's gf.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I know it is not mainline DC universe, but didn't they allude to it in the garbage that was All-Star Batman & Robin?

 

[MadVillainy]

People also claim he might've raped Barbara Gordon in Killing Joke and I think that story was made canon at some point. I never saw the rape thing, but I've read people who did

You know I never really thought of Joker as a rapist. Domestic abusers for sure obviously. But yeah I just never thought of it. It wouldn't surpise me if he did.

On the whole incel thing. Just ignore it. We really give too much shine to nonsense like that.

And I don't get the minor blowback that I've seen about making Joker "sympathetic" or that they will glorify him. I mean Killing Joke tried to paint Joker somewhat sympathetically with his alleged backstory, but then you see him do all these terrible things so you think "Yeah you had a bad life, but you're out here crippling people"
I haven't seen anything yet that indicated that it will be a glorification of the Joker. At least no more than something like Falling Down or Elephant