Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[TheGuy]

Visually Jack still wins. His suits, the prosthetics. Just amazing what they were able to do.

Jack is perfect for Burton Batman. Ledger is perfect for Nolan Batman as well. Switch them and they will look out of place.

 

[jemoen]

Top 3 = finalists
Joker was not embraced by the audiences as expected, very mixed.

Jojo Rabbit was having some of the loudest applauses, not controversial enough for audiences. Knives Out snub is the shocking one, since the reactions everyone love it, received collective standing ovation for several minutes.

Marriage Story was interrupted with applause during some monologues in screenings, so it was expected. And it's the one to beat this year so far.
Same Parasite, who should have won since it's loved by people and critics alike. Both are safe bet for the Oscars,
With Parasite's super hype, this must have been the winner imo

I don't know what Waves and Ferrari have to do with the post, nobody was expecting anything from them.

 

[jemoen]

Not a fan of Taika, but since twitter love hating Scarlett i'm glad for the results now, Jojo Rabbit won and Marriage Story is second. This is ScarJo year.
Possible double nomination? can't wait for the fumes

 

[Hollis Mason]

Top 3 = finalists
Joker was not embraced by the audiences as expected, very mixed.

Jojo Rabbit was having some of the loudest applauses, not controversial enough for audiences. Knives Out snub is the shocking one, since the reactions everyone love it, received collective standing ovation for several minutes.

Marriage Story was interrupted with applause during some monologues in screenings, so it was expected. And it's the one to beat this year so far.
Same Parasite, who should have won since it's loved by people and critics alike. Both are safe bet for the Oscars,
With Parasite's super hype, this must have been the winner imo

I don't know what Waves and Ferrari have to do with the post, nobody was expecting anything from them.

It was an example to show some acclaimed films also didn't get to the top 3. Many expected Waves or Beautiful Day Neigborhood to be at top 3. Also JoJo Rabbit got some mixed response. Just look at MC and RT. I'm surprised it won but also very happy cuz i think i will love it.

Was expecting this tbh, since all the controversial talk about Joker. But still very happy about Jojo Rabbit.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

This movie is to the Joker what Brighburn was to Superman except the studio actually wants this thing to make money so they gave Todd Philips the license. I don't know if I buy the "The Joker is more than the "One bad day" angle." The Killing Joke has been the brand imposed gold standard for ages now. Clearly DC doesn't think otherwise.

 

[JimThompson]

 

[Pennywise]

Some new pictures:

 

[TMP98]

This was never winning the People's Choice Award lmao

 

[Gothamsknight]

I will stand by my opinion that The Joker without Batman isn’t really ‘The Joker’.

And The Joker isn’t really just a man who snaps and becomes a psychopath... that would be a very bad description of the character. He’s the clown prince of crime. A mad genius. An unpredictable force of chaos. An embodiment of everything Batman stands against. He’s so much more that Falling Down, or a frustrated incel in clown face make-up.

Now... don’t misunderstand me, I don’t seek to criticise this film or Phoenix’s performance. From everything I’m seeing it looks like it’s going to be a very good character drama, but - as I’ve already stated - it’s also a story inspired by The Joker, rather than a movie about him... because there’s so much missing from the characterisation. Not least of which is having no Batman.

Very very true, my friend. And make no mistake, I think Phoenix will deliver a fantastic performance and that this film will be awesome, but what I mean is to me, ledgers Joker is THE Joker. his relationship with Batman in TDK is the comic come to life. At the core of ledgers Joker, it's the version that is the most accurate.A unpredictable, and mysterious force of nature. He's the definitive version


Phoenixs Joker is going to be a version of the character that we can consider as a possible origin. The fact is, we don't know his true origin and ledgers Joker is the embodiment of that. the Phoenix portrayal is gonna be a fantastic theory about what happened to this guy, but it's not the actual origin for the character because this character has no origin, which is what was shown so damn perfectly in TDK

 

[Greens]

Love the dressing room pic.

 

[Hollis Mason]

This was never winning the People's Choice Award lmao

Yeah. Controversy is too big. But i personally think General Audience won't care that much about things like that. Here in my town everyone is excited to see this one. People love controversial films.

 

[Pennywise]

A few more pictures:

 

[Arachnerd]

The BTAS font in the DeNiro pic, hell yeah.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[Closerframe]

I will stand by my opinion that The Joker without Batman isn’t really ‘The Joker’.

And The Joker isn’t really just a man who snaps and becomes a psychopath... that would be a very bad description of the character. He’s the clown prince of crime. A mad genius. An unpredictable force of chaos. An embodiment of everything Batman stands against. He’s so much more that Falling Down, or a frustrated incel in clown face make-up.

Now... don’t misunderstand me, I don’t seek to criticise this film or Phoenix’s performance. From everything I’m seeing it looks like it’s going to be a very good character drama, but - as I’ve already stated - it’s also a story inspired by The Joker, rather than a movie about him... because there’s so much missing from the characterisation. Not least of which is having no Batman.

I respect your opinion, but have to disagree. The Joker is all those things, but he's also unpredictable so nothing is quite out of character for him one way or the other. This movie is about the man who becomes the Joker which, depending on who you talk to, is either the Clown Prince of Crime or an agent of chaos as Ledger recently made a staple trait of the character. From what we've seen so far, Phoenix checks off a few boxes, he has the look of the Joker, he has the temperament of the Joker, and he has the psychotic tendencies. He's more of the Joker than both Romero and Leto who both came toe to toe with Batman but didn't embody some of the truer elements of the Joker that you've outlined.

All I'm saying is as fans of these characters, we can't limit our view of who these characters are or what they have the potential of evolving into. Otherwise, we'll just keep getting the same iteration that'll always be compared to our own version of what we think is the objective portrayal of the character.

 

[Holy Slapper]

75% Fresh after 97 reviews.

[*]Average Rating: 7.58/10
[*]Total Count: 97
[*]Fresh: 73
[*]Rotten: 24

Seems like the reviews were indeed "frontloaded" as the average rating has come down a lot.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Cesar Romero was 100% comics accurate to the comics at that time. Most (not all) characters on that show were 1:1 adaptations of the comics at that time.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

To me I like what I am hearing about this version of The Joker. I mean in all honesty the Joker should never be "funny". Really to me The Joker should be a sick/evil person where the joke is only funny to him because he is so messed up in the head. And the only reason why Batman gets him is because Batman could've turned out just like him but went a different path and only The Joker sees that.

 

[The Batman]

The fact is, we don't know his true origin and ledgers Joker is the embodiment of that.

We don't know the true origin of modern Joker. However, Pre-Crisis Joker was given a definitive origin, one written by Bill Finger no less.

 

[thebatfan5194]

We don't know the true origin of modern Joker. However, Pre-Crisis Joker was given a definitive origin, one written by Bill Finger no less.

This. The whole “Joker shouldn’t have an origin!!!!” thing is kind of revisionist history. The fall into the vat of chemicals had been the character’s origin for decades.

 

[FunkMiller]

I respect your opinion, but have to disagree. The Joker is all those things, but he's also unpredictable so nothing is quite out of character for him one way or the other. This movie is about the man who becomes the Joker which, depending on who you talk to, is either the Clown Prince of Crime or an agent of chaos as Ledger recently made a staple trait of the character. From what we've seen so far, Phoenix checks off a few boxes, he has the look of the Joker, he has the temperament of the Joker, and he has the psychotic tendencies. He's more of the Joker than both Romero and Leto who both came toe to toe with Batman but didn't embody some of the truer elements of the Joker that you've outlined.

All I'm saying is as fans of these characters, we can't limit our view of who these characters are or what they have the potential of evolving into. Otherwise, we'll just keep getting the same iteration that'll always be compared to our own version of what we think is the objective portrayal of the character.

This comment right here rather tells me that you’re of a mind to think that unless The Joker is a nihilistic monster, he’s somehow not really The Joker.

By ‘truer elements’ of The Joker... you mean that he’s a vicious killer, yes? An R rated psychopath? You believe Phoenix is a more accurate Joker than Romero because he is these things, when Romero is not?

I’d make the argument that while Phoenix is clearly aesthetically ‘The Joker’ ... the characterisation is in fact further away from the source material than any other live action iteration so far.

 

[Slade W]

We don't know the true origin of modern Joker. However, Pre-Crisis Joker was given a definitive origin, one written by Bill Finger no less.

IMO, New 52 Joker was given a definitive origin too, by Snyder in Zero Year. At the end, they have Batman saying that the leader of the Red Hood gang could have swapped helmet with any member of the gang before the end, and other things similar to that to leave some uncertainty, but for me, there were enough subtle clues throughout the story to back up the man we meet as the leader of the Red Hood gang at the start of the story being the same person who fell into the vat of acid at the end.

 

[Closerframe]

This comment right here rather tells me that you’re of a mind to think that unless The Joker is a nihilistic monster, he’s somehow not really The Joker.

By ‘truer elements’ of The Joker... you mean that he’s a vicious killer, yes? An R rated psychopath? You believe Phoenix is a more accurate Joker than Romero because he is these things, when Romero is not?

I’d make the argument that while Phoenix is clearly aesthetically ‘The Joker’ ... the characterisation is in fact further away from the source material than any other live action iteration so far.

Actually, no, to me there is no objective full characterization of who the Joker is. I was pointing out Phoenix's portrayal as a version of the character that is no less Joker than every other version that came before him. Some of the darker depictions of the Joker have always had a nihilistic view of the world, not all, so this trait is just as indicative of the character as him running around pulling down people's pants.

Again, there is no definitive Joker. I merely brought up Romero and Leto because one represents a depiction of the character at a time he wasn't violent in the source material which later changed in the 70/80s--another character evolution.

None of us have seen the film so we can't conclude one way or the other whether the character is a characterization that drifts the furthest from the source material. Keep in mind we've never seen a movie through the eyes of the Joker. The Killing Joke and The Joker graphic novel are the closes thing we have to judge the character's psychosis and motivations.

 

[Predator jp]

 

[FunkMiller]

Actually, no, to me there is no objective full characterization of who the Joker is. I was pointing out Phoenix's portrayal as a version of the character that is no less Joker than every other version that came before him. Some of the darker depictions of the Joker have always had a nihilistic view of the world, not all, so this trait is just as indicative of the character as him running around pulling down people's pants.

Again, there is no definitive Joker. I merely brought up Romero and Leto because one represents a depiction of the character at a time he wasn't violent in the source material which later changed in the 70/80s--another character evolution.

None of us have seen the film so we can't conclude one way or the other whether the character is a characterization that drifts the furthest from the source material. Keep in mind we've never seen a movie through the eyes of the Joker. The Killing Joke and The Joker graphic novel are the closes thing we have to judge the character's psychosis and motivations.

Yes we can, because Batman isn’t in it. You may disagree, but The Joker is only really The Joker when he’s acting as antagonist to Batman.

You’re absolutely right to say that there’s no definitive Joker, but I’m absolutely right to say that by any metric other than visuals, this Joker strays further from the source material than any other live action iteration... so much so that for me it’s more a movie inspired by the DC Comics character The Joker than actually starring him.

But again, this is not meant as a criticism. Straying so far, and removing so much of who and what The Joker is allows for a different kind of story to be told, something more original and fresh. But let’s not be silly about this, Arthur Fleck is very far removed from any other version we’ve seen before, so much so that it’s perfectly valid to critique the characterisation as not really being The Joker at all.