Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[Holy Slapper]

Yeah it's pretty normal with this kind of films. Fight Club, American Psycho, American History X, Requiem for a Dream... honestly i thought reception was gonna be worse. Still, average score is high and is the same than Jojo Rabbit.

This is at 74% now, Jojo Rabbit is at 78%...

 

[Hammer!]

This is at 74% now, Jojo Rabbit is at 78%...

Its also lower than Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls and Revenge of the Sith. In naming random movies for no reason that have a slightly better score, I cant believe we missed the two obvious choices people mention ad nauseam.

 

[TheScarecrow]

Where do we reckon this one ends up?

 

[The Shape]

To me The Joker is still infinitely more interesting and compelling than the character depicted in this film. As good as Phoenix is here. That's just how I feel and that's just my own opinion.

That’s fair, and I’m sure that’s true, but I’m cool with this. There have already been at least half a dozen live action depictions of The Joker up to this point — most of which have been fairly “comic accurate” to a certain extent — and there will almost certainly be half a dozen more over the next 30-40 years. Couple that with the hundreds of different Joker interpretations across comics and animation — I’m totally down for a different and/or radical take on the character and concept here.

Not talking about you specifically, but some people keep harping on the fact that Batman isn’t in this (“There is no Joker without teh Batman!!!”) or that this isn’t really like The Joker from the comics, as if they haven’t seen those stories told before or will never have the chance to see that kind of Joker story again. When in reality, Batman vs Joker movies will continue to be made until the end of time.

There is something to be said for allowing yourself to enjoy or appreciate something for what it is and leaving your preconceived notions at the door for a small window of time, rather than dwelling on what something isn’t or “could have been”.

 

[Hollis Mason]

This is at 74% now, Jojo Rabbit is at 78%...

I don't care about percentage. I'm talking about average score. Both Joker and Jojo Rabbit have a pretty similar score.

 

[HBarnill]

I’d rather watch The Room than BVS so what’s your point?

 

[Hammer!]

That BvS screen grab is severely out of date. It was at 28% critics and 62% audience about a year ago.

 

[TheScarecrow]

This is about to hit 72%.

So long to get that Certified Fresh status and we might lose it within the day!

 

[Holy Slapper]

I don't care about percentage. I'm talking about average score. Both Joker and Jojo Rabbit have a pretty similar score.

Oh you mean average rating.

 

[Holy Slapper]

This is about to hit 72%.

So long to get that Certified Fresh status and we might lose it within the day!

You have to enjoy those brief moments of joy before they are taken away.

Seems more and more of the Rotten reviews focus on the director's abilities to bring forth a vision or message or something of his own instead of copying from others, rather than any political message.

 

[The Shape]

This is worth a rewatch. The fact that Joaquin doesn’t break is impressive, and Letterman was brilliant.




Epilogue:

 

[dhandler01]

I’d rather watch The Room than BVS so what’s your point?

The point is you seem to have no point and are just in here trolling. And dont pretend it is otherwise you have been pulling the same schtick for weeks. We get it, you dont like the movie and want to for some reason rain on everyone's parade. It isnt that funny nor is it that creative and your posts are second rate hack jobs.

And before it is said it has nothing to do with being negative...plenty of people are down on the film and the concept. The difference is most of them are being respectful...you just come in, post some random negative comment, maybe a second non-sequitur post, then disappear again. You are like a clickbaiter only you do it here.

 

[dhandler01]

A local radio show was talking about the film and a couple of the regulars saw it at a press screening in town. They couldnt have loved it more. Both said Phoenix was better than Ledger and that the film is a must see for everyone. It should be noted they are not known for their overt positivity and actually kind of revel in trolling people and ripping on anything they dont like so when they praise something this much it is quite noticeable.

 

[harlequinade]

Speaking of AwardsWatch, @Boom are images still blocked there? LOL I got out of there the second they did that since 90% of what I posted were news, videos and pics

 

[inomilan]

Just watched the film. I enjoyed it and I think it is a good film, but I don't think it's a masterpiece as some people say it is, but the RT score should also be higher. Phoenix was great as Joker and I think he should get an Oscar nomination at least, but I personally liked Ledger's Joker more. I liked the message the movie was showing and how it reflects society today because it does spark discussion. It's also NOT THAT violent.

Overall, I think it's a 9/10 at most for me. I like that it is something different from what most comicbook movies are right now and it is a breath of fresh air, but I guess I just like the more light-hearted/more balanced movies more in general.

 

[Maze]

Yeah it's pretty normal with this kind of films. Fight Club, American Psycho, American History X, Requiem for a Dream... honestly i thought reception was gonna be worse. Still, average score is high and is the same than Jojo Rabbit.

Did you see Seul contre tous ( I stand all/ One against all) a great (and very bleak) 1988 drama from Gaspard Noe?
Wonder if it could fall in your ballpark comparison

 

[weezerspider]

Alright I have seen this a second time, which did this thing no favors. Joaquin is great, but the Scorsese pastiche really begins to wear thin. The best stuff about this movie was done better by Scorsese 40 years ago. I’m afraid my initial worries after my first viewing are true regarding what Phillips is trying to say. JOKER is simply just a fairly shallow Scorsese cover by a director who doesn’t know what he’s saying. If you’ve seen The King Of Comedy, Taxi Driver and know the most basic Batman mythology, the film is terribly predictable and hollow. Arguably the best scene confirms that Joker is not that interesting without Batman which makes it not quite work as a Scorsese character study or a comic book film. It is awkwardly somewhere in between. However, a few fantastic scenes, great cinematography and a good score help Joaquin’s performance elevate a very weak script into a fairly enjoyable movie. I enjoyed my two viewings, but I probably don’t need to see this ever again. I can scratch this itch much more successfully with Taxi Driver, The King Of Comedy or The Dark Knight.

 

[Hollis Mason]

Did you see Seul contre tous ( I stand all/ One against all) a great (and very bleak) 1988 drama from Gaspard Noe?
Wonder if it could fall in your ballpark comparison

It could. Gaspar Noe has so many great films.

 

[Hollis Mason]

Alright I have seen this a second time, which did this thing no favors. Joaquin is great, but the Scorsese pastiche really begins to wear thin. The best stuff about this movie was done better by Scorsese 40 years ago. I’m afraid my initial worries after my first viewing are true regarding what Phillips is trying to say. JOKER is simply just a fairly shallow Scorsese cover by a director who doesn’t know what he’s saying. If you’ve seen The King Of Comedy, Taxi Driver and know the most basic Batman mythology, the film is terribly predictable and hollow. Arguably the best scene confirms that Joker is not that interesting without Batman which makes it not quite work as a Scorsese character study or a comic book film. It is awkwardly somewhere in between. However, a few fantastic scenes, great cinematography and a good score help Joaquin’s performance elevate a very weak script into a fairly enjoyable movie. I enjoyed my two viewings, but I probably don’t need to see this ever again. I can scratch this itch much more successfully with Taxi Driver, The King Of Comedy or The Dark Knight.

I disagree. I admit to some the story may be derivative, but mixed with the score, acting and directing, this one is not a pastiche. It's a drama that could be set in the same universe from Taxi Driver. The vibe and protagonist are very different. Taxi Driver is a thriller. This one feels like a full horror movie. Takes the style from Scorsese and mixes it with Fight Club and gives us something i think it's very special. Don't compare the execution to Taxi Driver, because this one isn't doing the same, but creating something different with the same tools. That's something that artists always do.

But i respect your opinion, ofc. And i see why you may dislike the film.

 

[FatRobin]

Just saw the film. Gosh I watched Dragged Across Concrete the other day and thought this would be much more brutal or violent based on the critics' reaction, it was not that violent at all . There's some killing but that's about it. The film was dark though, but also not as depressing as others have said imo.

I feel like the only flaw of the movie was it didn't flow really well and there were some awkward lines, but other than that the score, the cinematography and Phoenix's performance were amazing.

 

[weezerspider]

I disagree. I admit to some the story may be derivative, but mixed with the score, acting and directing, this one is not a pastiche. It's a drama that could be set in the same universe from Taxi Driver. The vibe and protagonist are very different. Taxi Driver is a thriller. This one feels like a full horror movie. Takes the style from Scorsese and mixes it with Fight Club and gives us something i think it's very special. Don't compare the execution to Taxi Driver, because this one isn't doing the same, but creating something different with the same tools. That's something that artists always do.

But i respect your opinion, ofc. And i see why you may dislike the film.

You use the word “tools” which could also be called “ingredients” which is where the word Pastiche comes from. Pastiche isn’t inherently a bad thing. This is definitely a Scorsese pastiche. That’s why Robert DeNiro is in it playing the inverse of his character in King Of Comedy. I mean there are two scenes basically taken directly from King Of Comedy, while the whole structure of “a lonely man descends into madness” is lifted from Taxi Driver. I also disagree that the vibe is different. It feels exactly like the kind of movie you’d expect if you mashed King Of Comedy with Taxi Driver. None of this is inherently a bad thing. Tarantino is one of my favorite filmmakers and he almost exclusively works in pastiche. However, this particular example doesn’t quite work for me. The execution is botched, IMO.

But I like the movie fine and if it works for you, that’s cool, just friendly debate

 

[lime]

So, at what rating at RT the movie loses it's Certified status? 72%, 71% or 70%?

It is currently at 73%.

 

[Maze]

Now i cant talk, i havent seen the Joker. but did you see it as a horror movie weezerspider ? because, if we're talking about Taxi Driver apart maybe the climax, i cant see it as a horror movie. A dark psychological drama, and a thriller yes (and obviously the King of comedy is a dramatic comedy)

 

[weezerspider]

Now i cant speak, i havent seen the Joker. but did you see it as a horror movie ? because, apart maybe the climax of Taxi Driver, i cant see it as a horror movie. A dark psychological drama, yes

I don’t see it as a horror movie any more or less than Taxi Driver. I’d argue the only reason it feels like the birth of a monster versus a dude going insane ala Travis Bickle is because of the pop culture baggage that comes with an icon like Joker. Same with Bruce. The scenes with Bruce Wayne worked surprisingly well for me simply because of the pop culture baggage that that’s ****ing Batman!

 

[TheScarecrow]

So, at what rating at RT the movie loses it's Certified status? 72%, 71% or 70%?

It is currently at 73%.

It can't dip under 70%. If it does, it will lose its Certified Fresh even if it goes above 70% again (unless it gets back over 75%).