The Dark Knight Rises The Journey's Conclusion: The Fate of Gotham, the Wayne Legacy & Batman Symbol Thread

[Sharkboy]

Jeez Nev, don't take things too seriously on a batman board.

 

[Nevincer]

Jeez Nev, don't take things too seriously on a batman board.

I'm not. Sorry if it sounds fussy, but after this thread had got off so well I found that post glaringly out of place. I would have let it slip if it wasn't in that obnoxious font size, but that's just how I felt. You don't have to do anything, I just asked for some courtesy. If The Batman can in his thread I'd like to in mine.

 

[Nevincer]

Moving on...

Seen these bonus track titles yet?
http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=1097

So the previously speculated "Rise" track from the OST seems like it may not be for the final scene after all. Instead we now have a bonus track fittingly titled "The End". Interesting...

 

[NateHevens]

I meant it as his first endevor as batman in the film, I think by the time he gets out of the pit, he's already gotten himself back to his prime fitness physically as well as mentallly. First time round, no matter how good he feels in the suit, you can't just go back into that life after 8 years of inactivity. It's ring rust.

If you've read Knightfall, then you know that his mentality will not be optimistic. In Knightfall, when he finally goes up against Bane, he is tired. Every muscle hurts, he's slower... Bane has a very clear advantage over him; Bane could have beaten him even without the venom.

This is how I think that first fight in Rises will play out. I don't think Bruce will be ready. And I think he'll know that. I think he'll look, act, and feel tired and worn down. He may not be entirely able to operate off the cane (regardless of whether or not his need for the cane is psychosomatic), so he'll likely feel off balance, as well.

No, I think the scene you outlined will occur when first puts on the suit after escaping the pit; when he's at his physical best.

Don't forget... the first fight with Bane is very likely straight out of Knightfall (minus the broken back). DKR probably comes in when he escapes the pit.

 

[TheIrishAvenger]

Here's what I think will happen. Bruce has been on Journey for who he really is the entire trilogy. Batman is the persona that he uses to find who he really is, without having to be Bruce Wayne because he is still haunted by the death of his parents.

The conclusion of this trilogy should be for Bruce to find who he really is, to fully accept the loss of his parents and finally leave the Batman behind as a being and now as a symbol of hope for Gotham. But Bruce has to commit a "necessary evil"; to kill the being of Batman so Gotham can unite for the symbol and rebuild the city that is now in "ashes". The evil is to lie to the city by faking his death/actually killing Batman, he does this for the sake of everybody.

For the final scenes I envision a Batman memorial at the centre of Gotham with Gordon giving a speech similar to his one for Dent. We cut to a graveyard at night, where we see Bruce at the graves of his parents, Rachel and possibly Alfred, he brings flowers for all and brings closure to his journey. Finally, we see Bruce look up in the sky and he spots the Bat signal over the skies of Gotham. As Bruce looks up at the Bat signal, he has a smile and says Thank You. Bruce has made himself more than just a man, he has become something else entirely, a legend.

 

[Rogzilla]

Not ruling anything out, but that would be a depressing end and leave Bruce's actions for naught.

This is the sort of ending I'm expecting. It isn't a happy ending, not for Bruce. Maybe he does find some sort of resolution, some sort of conclusion, but it doesn't have to be a happy one.

I just can't see Bruce ever finding joy, living a "normal" life. I said once before that, even he did stop being Batman, that I think he should leave Gotham. Two reasons for this:

1-As I've said before, having him just stop being Batman, especially as he is "retired" at the start of the film, seems stale to me. Even if there was emotional growth for the character, there is no real change in the status quo and the movies don't seem to be about that. The first film was about Bruce becoming Batman, the second about Batman becoming The Dark Knight (and, as we learn in third, stops being Batman). So there will need to be a change in the status quo that will need to, shall we say "rattle the cages." In essense, he is no longer Batman or Bruce Wayne.

2-Gotham will, no doubt, be a place of darkness for him. His parents died there, the love of his life and a good man died there. And if the body count raises even more in this one? Even if Bruce does save Gotham, odds are good he will always relate it to the negative things in his life. He loves Gotham, of course, but he must hate it too. Ultimately, showing Bruce Wayne leaving Gotham shows him moving on with his life.

But I keep coming back to the title. Rises. The Dark Knight Rises. Obviously, the rises is refering to Bane's (for lack of better term) revolution in Gotham. But The Dark Knight has to rise too. Does he rise from the shadows, returning to Gotham after an 8 year retirement? Does he rise like a pheonix, returning after Bane had him beaten and broken? Does he rise in the eyes of Gothamites, now being viewed as the true hero of the city, who has sacrificed his life?

But it's also "The Dark Knight" that rises, not "Bruce Wayne". So maybe the film ends with the death of a man (Bruce) but with the rise of Batman as a true symbol and a legend?

Ultimately, these are all guesses. The truth is, Chris Nolan could do any of the three basic ends (Death, Retirement, Continuation) and would find a way to make any of them work. Certain variations may not be happy, and maybe they shouldn't be. Honestly, I don't want Bruce Wayne to have a "happy" life. Everything he's done in his life has been about sacrifice, putting others ahead of himself. I don't know if he could ever be happy.

I've said before I compare Bruce to a soldier returned from a tour of duty, not certain what to do with his life and maybe always itching to return.

Anyway, I'm talking in circles at this point. This has just been a stream of conciousness but maybe someone will get the general idea of what I'm going for.

 

[NateHevens]

Here's what I think will happen. Bruce has been on Journey for who he really is the entire trilogy. Batman is the persona that he uses to find who he really is, without having to be Bruce Wayne because he is still haunted by the death of his parents.

The conclusion of this trilogy should be for Bruce to find who he really is, to fully accept the loss of his parents and finally leave the Batman behind as a being and now as a symbol of hope for Gotham. But Bruce has to commit a "necessary evil"; to kill the being of Batman so Gotham can unite for the symbol and rebuild the city that is now in "ashes". The evil is to lie to the city by faking his death/actually killing Batman, he does this for the sake of everybody.

For the final scenes I envision a Batman memorial at the centre of Gotham with Gordon giving a speech similar to his one for Dent. We cut to a graveyard at night, where we see Bruce at the graves of his parents, Rachel and possibly Alfred, he brings flowers for all and brings closure to his journey. Finally, we see Bruce look up in the sky and he spots the Bat signal over the skies of Gotham. As Bruce looks up at the Bat signal, he has a smile and says Thank You. Bruce has made himself more than just a man, he has become something else entirely, a legend.

Serious problem, bro... Rachel's dead. Also, it seems Alfred has a target painted on his back; he may not survive this film.

I'm expecting the fate of Bruce being a heck of a lot more ambiguous.

I could see the ending being like you said; the memorial and all that. Then, we cut to the graveyard. Thomas, Martha, and Bruce... then, we see a hand holding the Bat cowl and placing it on Bruce's grave. The last thing the audience sees before the credits is the cowl.

This is the sort of ending I'm expecting. It isn't a happy ending, not for Bruce. Maybe he does find some sort of resolution, some sort of conclusion, but it doesn't have to be a happy one.

Batman cannot lose. I think that will destroy the whole point. He is certainly going to succeed at the end of the film. The question is, what sort of toll does the success take on Bruce?

 

[Carnotaur3]

It's certainly possible and even likely, but it seems like a rather weak reason to me. His physical fall wasn't emphasized very much in the film and his limp when running from the cops wasn't too noticeable even though it was there.

My bigger question is actually what happens to the cane once Bruce comes back as Batman. Does he make a modification to the suit to make up for the injury?

What do you mean it wasn't emphasized. He fell, time stood still for a moment, a scared Gordon ran to his aide. What would the point be outside of the obviously metaphorical fall?

In any case, it's being emphasized here as a way of explaining how Bruce Wayne never got over that event! Just like he never got over the death of his parents. The whole situation where he and Gordon conspired to create the lie is what resurfaces. And the injury is just a physical manifestation of that. Works thematically!

 

[DKDetective]

Serious problem, bro... Rachel's dead. Also, it seems Alfred has a target painted on his back; he may not survive this film.

He knows Rachel is dead and that there is a good chance Alfred will die, that is why their names are included in the list of graves Bruce possibly visits.

 

[ND Irish]

Serious problem, bro... Rachel's dead. Also, it seems Alfred has a target painted on his back; he may not survive this film.

He was saying that Bruce would be standing alone over the graves of his parents, Rachel, and possibly Alfred's as many people suspect he'll be killed; not that Bruce would be joined by Rachel & Alfred at his parents' grave.

I do believe a graveyard scene will be the ending and I think I really like IrishAvenger's theory on a possible end.

 

[NateHevens]

Apologies. For some reason I read his post as saying Bruce would be standing with Rachel and Alfred at the grave of his parents.

I take that back...

 

[Nevincer]

Haven't read the production notes yet as i'm busy, but to those who have, anymore interesting quotes that could be added to the OP regarding the conclusion?

 

[Batman jr.]

If you wouldn't mind please have the courtesy to refrain from these kinds of posts in the future, I'd like a standard of conduct and quality in this thread as opposed to the clutter of spam and nonsense that is present in most of the others. I hope that's not too much to ask.

My two cents:

Gotham is... ashes, but it's people will rebuilt it, after all they have the spirit of Batman in their hearts.

I hope we see the "building" already at the end.

As for Wayne's legacy, well: it's more than bricks & mortar, it's about a man who "sacrificed" it all. I bet nobody, aside Alfred & Talia of course, expected him to be Batman, safe for Gordon ("who's too good of a cop not to know") & Lucius ("don't think of him as an idiot").

 

[Mandalore464]

Edit : Deleted

 

[Nevincer]

As for Wayne's legacy, well: it's more than bricks & mortar, it's about a man who "sacrificed" it all. I bet nobody, aside Alfred & Talia of course, expected him to be Batman, safe for Gordon ("who's too good of a cop not to know") & Lucius ("don't think of him as an idiot").

Agreed! I'm not so sure about Gordon, but if he does find out that Batman = Bruce I can't wait to see how he reacts to that.

 

[Gianakin_]

Reading the Boucher article... I'm getting the sense that the finale won't be anywhere near as simple as 1.death, 2.retirement or 3.perpetuality. I just can't fathom where they might be going with this.

 

[TinkerTailor]

Reading the Boucher article... I'm getting the sense that the finale won't be anywhere near as simple as 1.death, 2.retirement or 3.perpetuality. I just can't fathom where they might be going with this.

I was just thinking that myself. I thought that the last 15 minutes would maybe be a winding down period for the film (similar to Return of the King, but not as long/tedious) but from the Twitter reaction of the last 15 minutes being 'unbelievable' I have a feeling it's going to rush to a climax that leaves us shell shocked.

 

[Gianakin_]

It's not just that, it's also the fact that he's been talking about Nolan taking Batman to completely unfamiliar places (I assume metaphorically).

 

[TinkerTailor]

It's not just that, it's also the fact that he's been talking about Nolan taking Batman to completely unfamiliar places (I assume metaphorically).

Italy?

 

[Gianakin_]

When in Rome...

 

[TinkerTailor]

Seriously though, it raises the question of whether Boucher meant unfamiliar places on a purely cinematic level or if it's somewhere the character's never been before in any medium.

 

[Gianakin_]

This is also something I've thought about, but I'm not sure if he's a comics fan. Cause that might give us a hint.

 

[Greens]

An exclamation point climax.... unbelievable last 15 minutes...

I don't think Bruce is riding off with Selina

 

[Nevincer]

An exclamation point climax.... unbelievable last 15 minutes...

I don't think Bruce is riding off with Selina

 

[Victarion]

I think the Harvey Dent Act will make Batman's working outside the law legal. That would unsettle some Gothamites and fit with the idea of papering over the cracks, with some underlying simmering anger.

In the end, I believe the best course for Gotham is for Wayne Enterprises to persue charitable functions, setting up a few hospitals, orphanages etc. while supplying the GPD with the sort of technology and equipment Batman used. That would given them even footing against any other major threats to Gotham while allowing Batman to live on as a legend.