The Rise of Skywalker The Last Jedi vs The Rise of Skywalker

[Spider-Fan]

Okay, then please answer my question. What term would you use to distinguish a recurring a central storytelling device from one that is non-recurring? Give me a better word to use and I'll use it.

Storytelling devices of Storytelling device. Not a theme. Deconstruction is not a theme any more than genre is. Like post-apocalyptic is a description of what something is, post-apocalyptic is not theme.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Storytelling devices of Storytelling device. Not a theme. Deconstruction is not a theme any more than genre is. Like post-apocalyptic is a description of what something is, post-apocalyptic is not theme.

Okay, then how about "pattern"? Can I say The Last Jedi has a pattern of using deconstruction to analyze and subvert the conventions of Star Wars? Is that acceptable to you?

 

[Brother Jack]

TLJ is undeniably more cohesive and focused. TROS is very messy, haphazard, and hyperactive.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Okay, then how about "pattern"? Can I say The Last Jedi has a pattern of using deconstruction to analyze and subvert the conventions of Star Wars? Is that acceptable to you?

This would be an accurate assessment yes

 

[Mr. Peanut]

This would be an accurate assessment yes

Okay, glad we could clear that up.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I mean... that is pretty close to what we saw in TROS anyway.

No I mean like losing control and brutalizing him to the point of physical agony (akin to Vader). And then actually having an interaction with his mother. Rather than never having spoken to her throughout the entire series. -_-

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

It's a hard choice as while I hate TLJ and was just cold on ROS that has a bit to do with my expectations.

I had high hopes for TLJ but I thought it was bad both as a Star Wars film and a film in general, so that was a huge disappointment, while I expected ROS to be bad and I knew about some bad things (like Sidious returning) beforehand so I couldn't be negatively surprised.

If I have to choose I guess I'll go with the one that disappointed me the least.

 

[Consona]

Since TLJ is one of the worst films I've ever seen, it's rather easy for me,
TRoS over TLJ any given day.

 

[Frodo]

I basically give them both the same grade of B-. TLJ may be a higher B- than TROS, but they're both still B- .

I'd say TLJ is a better made film than TROS, and probably has a better story.

That said TROS feels more like a SW film, while TLJ feels more like a meta commentary on SW.

For me its sort of 6 of one half dozen of the other.

Then again, the ST trilogy for me is basically a B average when putting together all three films. Its passable , its got some decent ideas , but could have been better.

 

[Karelia]

Rise of Skywalker easily for me.

 

[souloffire]

They both suck.

 

[Prison Mike]

TLJ...I like that they tried something new

 

[SomeOldGuy]

Having now seen both, I will stick with TLJ. RoS is fine. For that matter, I like the whole trilogy, warts and all.

 

[Doc Samson]

For the life of me, I can't wrap my head around anybody saying TLJ was disrespectful or damaging to SW lore, while also liking RoS at the same time.

If you enjoy the action or whatever, that's fine. But let's not act like JJ didn't just toss boatloads of **** at the proverbial wall and never once stopped to see if anything stuck...

 

[MaceB]

This is honestly a hard question in some ways. TLJ is undoubtedly the more focused, the more thematically advanced, the better produced film. It's beautiful, and bold, and new.

However... it's also a hugely dissatisfying, disrespectful, destructive film. It's out of place, and it seems to go out of its way to destroy the conventions we've relied upon for 7 movies... with only one movie left to go. Its artistic choices are bold, but really unpleasant. It dumped on a lot of the lore, IMO.

Rise of Skywalker, on the other hand, is trying its best to be a pleasure-box... it's job is to throw as much candy our way, so that we don't notice all the craziness and absurdity that is going on in the background. It's really hard to divorce this film from its context. This is a rushed, pieced together puzzle book of a movie, because the creative team saw what TLJ gave them, and they chose to lean away from it, rather than lean in. TROS is the more fun film... easier to watch... turn off your head, and enjoy the nostalgia train. But pay attention to the details, and man is it a mess.

So..... look, I dunno. I don't know which one is better or worse. I know that I enjoy TROS more. But they are both disappointments. Truly. It's a frustrating thing, honestly. On day 1, after they decided to do this sequel trilogy....someone MUST have told the creative team that, "hey, the principle worry is that we degrade the victory of the originals. We should be respectful not to destroy the existing canon set up by the originals and the prequels." In essence, the principle challenge of this sequel series was to prove why it was truly necessary. And they didn't meet that metric, IMO. Is the resolution of TROS any more profound or lasting than the resolution that we got in ROTJ? I'd argue no. This... oddly... feels like a step back. And that's really discouraging. Ultimately, I have to begrudgingly side with those who say that these flaws got baked into the cake, the second they decided to exile Luke in TFA. That creative choice... to essentially waste a movie recreating the beat for beat plot points of ANH... is basically what set this trilogy up for failure. And it's a true shame. You have to work pretty hard to make me disinterested in Star Wars, boy.

 

[Karelia]

I just wish JJ did all three at this point.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I just wish JJ did all three at this point.

Seriously he should have. I don't think he would have treated Luke with the disregard and lack of dignity Rian Johnson did.

 

[Sithborg]

But, as Troy Denning showed, being too much of a Luke fanboy has its issues.

But, then again, I don't see how TLJ was disrespectful.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

I basically give them both the same grade of B-. TLJ may be a higher B- than TROS, but they're both still B- .

I'd say TLJ is a better made film than TROS, and probably has a better story.

That said TROS feels more like a SW film, while TLJ feels more like a meta commentary on SW.

For me its sort of 6 of one half dozen of the other.

Then again, the ST trilogy for me is basically a B average when putting together all three films. Its passable , its got some decent ideas , but could have been better.

These are exactly my thoughts as well. I'd give both TROS and TLJ a B- with TFA being a solid B. This trilogy overall was pretty solid IMO, but I do wish it was a lot more coherent and this final film could have been so much more satisfying had they properly planned it out. That being said I think TROS is definitely a more rewatchable film, because of how entertaining it is, although TLJ was better made and had a more solid story.

 

[Consona]

I just wish JJ did all three at this point.

I wasn't that happy with TFA being such a rehash of ANH, but at least JJ is a SW fan, and he even tried to improve his work based on some criticism like fixing Rey's mary sue issues somewhat in TRoS, etc. While the only goal of Johnson was to create a controversial troll-fest. It's clear who would I choose to make the whole trilogy...

Spoiler

When "A Jedi's weapon deserves more respect" happened I burst into laugher so hard in the cinema, such a sound F*** You to Johnson.

 

[Filmfan93]

Seriously he should have. I don't think he would have treated Luke with the disregard and lack of dignity Rian Johnson did.

He wouldn't have - you can see from both the ending of TFA and his 5-min screentime in TROS that JJ was going to threat Luke as this old, wise and hopeful Jedi Master that would train Rey and possibly face Ren himself or with her.. and not having given up on everything and trying to kill his nephew, then project himself across the galaxy and die because of it, never having even left the island.

 

[childeroland]

ROS could have just had Kylo Ren (a perfectly interesting villain after killing Han, with him being fooled by Luke as a fine motive) find Exegol and take it over without Palpatine. He could have sat on the throne, killed Leia with an evil version of Luke's projecting power from TLJ, and Leia makes Rey promise to try to redeem him before she kills him. Then Rey, Finn, BB8 and Chewie could have gone straight there while Poe distracted the Order with the last of the Resistance, Return of the King-style. None of that Dyad or sacrifice nonsense, just a straight, clean ending to this current trilogy without burdening the film with ending the whole saga and 800 new characters.

 

[shinlyle]

The Last Jedi was the better film. Structurally, thematically, and visually. I LIKED Rise of Skywalker, but The Last Jedi was awesome to me, and a far better film.

As it has been said, the one thing evident throughout this trilogy is that there was no plan to start with about the overall trilogy.

 

[henzINNIT]

Second viewing of TROS was pretty rough I must admit. I like TLJ more every time I see it.

 

[BatLobster]

Spoiler

When "A Jedi's weapon deserves more respect" happened I burst into laugher so hard in the cinema, such a sound F*** You to Johnson.

Here is JJ directly refuting that. (bottom video)