The Last of Us The Last Of Us 2

1,5 hours leak video is out. I watched it in it's entirety. It gives a bit more context to what leaked before. Plus intro is available in full. Confirms some of initial speculations. Good chunk of the video (about half) is gameplay and test footage with disabled assets, development tools etc.

Yep, people who are looking for something uplifting or hopeful to break away from real world misery should probably stay away at least from spoilers. The game will most likely have uplifting or humorous moments, but spoilers mostly focus on tragedy.
 
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OutOfBoose said:
Yep, people who are looking for something uplifting or hopeful to break away from real world misery should probably stay away at least from spoilers. The game will most likely have uplifting or humorous moments, but spoilers mostly focus on tragedy.
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Did people actually thought TLOU2 would be something uplifting?
TLOU in the first hour showed you its face, that its in a world that hits hard.

Making TLOU2 more a tragedy, cant be that much of a surprise.
And if im honest, some really hard and deep hitting tragedy in a video game would be a nice surprise.

If i look at Days gone, a similar game and how empty its "happy ending" felt, i dont know if i wouldnt be more for some tragedy than happy endings, despite me being a total fan of those.
Hard to say to be honest, with such games as TLOU you can go a few different ways and decide on a direction...its a 50/50 chance that this decision is good or bad accepted by the audience.
 
Mani-Man said:
Did people actually thought TLOU2 would be something uplifting?
TLOU in the first hour showed you its face, that its in a world that hits hard.

Making TLOU2 more a tragedy, cant be that much of a surprise.
And if im honest, some really hard and deep hitting tragedy in a video game would be a nice surprise.

If i look at Days gone, a similar game and how empty its "happy ending" felt, i dont know if i wouldnt be more for some tragedy than happy endings, despite me being a total fan of those.
Hard to say to be honest, with such games as TLOU you can go a few different ways and decide on a direction...its a 50/50 chance that this decision is good or bad accepted by the audience.
Click to expand...
TLOU1 also had plenty of tragedy. Repeated death of close ones, strained relationships, brutal violence, screwed up lives, difficult choices. It's not really an issue for me. Misery done right is great, imo. It's rare in games, and good quality is even more rare. It's not really misery itself that is interesting, but fleshed out characters and world. Drama.

Some say the new game is edge-lord-y and "misery porn", but seeing more from it "thanks" to the leaks, I can't really agree. It looks like they will spend a lot of time developing characters, both new and old. I think the hardest part for the game will be making new characters comparably interesting to the beloved characters from the first game. But I have to say the "new" one is winning me over.
 
OutOfBoose said:
TLOU1 also had plenty of tragedy. Repeated death of close ones, strained relationships, brutal violence, screwed up lives, difficult choices. It's not really an issue for me. Misery done right is great, imo. It's rare in games, and good quality is even more rare. It's not really misery itself that is interesting, but fleshed out characters and world. Drama.

Some say the new game is edge-lord-y and "misery porn", but seeing more from it "thanks" to the leaks, I can't really agree. It looks like they will spend a lot of time developing characters, both new and old. I think the hardest part for the game will be making new characters comparably interesting to the beloved characters from the first game. But I have to say the "new" one is winning me over.
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Yup, TLOU had plenty of dark moments and stuff.
Im not the biggest fan of tragedy and misery, but it can be incredible moving and strong.
In video games you barely have such strong emotions and such deep storytelling because like many say, games are for them to escape all that in their life and they just want to have "fun".

Ellie and Joel have come in and swept people away, of course nobody wants to see them suffer, its understandable.
But i would give TLOU2 a chance to tell a story and then decide if i like it.
The leaks only give a glimpse, they dont tell the whole story.
As sad as tragedys and stuff are, they can often be more than as if you do a straight forward "happy ending".
 
Then who else has an access to debug menus and work in progress assets?

The only time I remember something similar was when Half-Life 2 source code was stolen. By some kid from Germany, I think.

Is it hackers again?
 
Smells like bs to me in an attempt to win sympathy.
 
This so disheartening. I have been looking forward to this game for years. The first game is honestly my favorite game of all time. I've played through it at least 6-7 times.

I really don't have an issue with any "political" statements that others seem to be having a hard time with. My issue is what Naughty Dog is doing to two of my favorite characters in video game history. I won't go into the spoilers, but it sounds like an absolute travesty to me. I'll be skipping this day one and only be purchasing it if I hear from players saying the leaks weren't true. Terrible time for gaming in my opinion
 
jmc said:
Smells like bs to me in an attempt to win sympathy.
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It wont gain them any sympathy, there is still the problem with the crunch/pay/toxic environment side of things.
 
Mani-Man said:
It wont gain them any sympathy, there is still the problem with the crunch/pay/toxic environment side of things.
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Online hate made the guy who posted an article about internal situation in the studio defend ND. He said payment wasn't an issue. Workers got extra payment for pandemia situation.

Plus there are tweets like this one:


Perhaps there are issues in the studio, but they're blown way out of proportion. Or maybe insiders forced management to stop ****ing it's employees. And it made situation better in the end.
 
Mani-Man said:
It wont gain them any sympathy, there is still the problem with the crunch/pay/toxic environment side of things.
Click to expand...

I was this close to working on LA Noir. I'm so glad I didn't get the job after reading what those work conditions were like.
 
OutOfBoose said:
Then who else has an access to debug menus and work in progress assets?
Click to expand...
Possibly an external QA party.

jmc said:
I was this close to working on LA Noir. I'm so glad I didn't get the job after reading what those work conditions were like.
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I did an internship in one the big Montreal studios during my undergrad degree. I'm glad for the experience, but also glad to confirm it's just wasn't for me.

Even indie/smaller studios have their setbacks.
 
The best excuse I've heard over this from a games journo is because ND employees are working from home one of them potentially had their computer hacked. I mean, let's just break that down for a moment. Some random hacker just happens to stumble across the computer of someone working at ND, discovers said computer has gameplay and cut scenes and other developer stuff on said computers, steals it, the purposely leaks it in a way that makes the game and the company look bad. I mean, that's a stretch if ever there was. Either Sony are trying to cover their tracks, or their computer security system is beyond ****.
 
Feels a bit surreal defending this game. I still think it's gonna be something special based on what I saw and read.

Anyway, here's a very plausible explanation how it leaked (there's a thread of posts, so it's a long read):


Those who don't believe ND or Sony might read this one for bigger picture. TLDR: security vulnerability.
 
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Marvolo said:
Frankly I dont trust a damn thing Naughty Dog or Sony say about this situation. ND and Sony are in PR survival mode and that is when companies and corporations spin BS the most.
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I understand that sentiment, fully. But I'm just interested in the whole truth. This video's worth a watch. I timestamped it for you:

 
If you're going around copyright striking people just talking about the leak then as far as I'm concerned Sony has lost the PR battle whether this breach is true or not. If their internal security was this lax that's one thing, suck it up and own your piss weak security. But going around abusing copyright laws and trying to take down the livelihoods of youtubers who aren't doing anything wrong, well now you've just made your entire situation a thousand times worse. The leaks are out there, that's your problem not the guy or girl on youtube talking about it.
 
Yeah Sony trying to take down videos talking about the leaks is just them going on a power trip. But I do still see some on Youtube
 
OutOfBoose said:
Right now it doesn't look like preparation for possible disappointment. Only Gothamsknight showed levelheaded approach. Everyone else seem to knee-jerk hard on isolated plot points, that lack context. It's their right, sure, but to me it looks ridiculous... How fickle people can be without much reason.
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To me it is not knee jerk. To me it is a natural reaction to what I have read. There are things I expected in the spoilers. There are things I could live with. But there is two aspects of the game that are a big no to me, especially as it take up half the game.

Spoilers people. Seriously.
The idea of playing as the killer of Joel and the potential killer of Ellie is not what I as a Last of Us fan wants to do. I could live with both of them dying, as much as it hurts. But being asked to play as the killer for something like 10 hours? No. There is not "certain point of view" that is going to make that entertaining to me. Make me care for that character. It will feel like a slow death march of pain, and for what? That's not profound to me, that's not rewarding to me, that's not fun to me, that does not make me happy. I am done with the subversion of why I enjoy something.

This is why they fear the spoilers so damn much. Because no matter how you spin it as a work of art, it's a game that people will sit and play for hours, and the idea of playing as someone who murdered someone they love is never going to be appealing. Made worse by the idea that you might actually have to play as the person who might kill the other person you love and adore as well. This idea sours the original as well for me.

Also consider the marketing. They are selling this game on the first one. On the characters. Not even a sniff of playing as another character that isn't Ellie, much less one who butchers her father. How will many feel with the idea of not actually playing the 20-25 hours as Ellie like they are being sold?

OutOfBoose said:
People can't grasp the idea that there's more to the game than some isolated fragments?

To me it looks like people want to be angry about something just because. We all can agree Game of Thrones later seasons are trash. But we watched them and can have an informed opinion. But here? It's like a twilight zone.
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When GoT spoilers leaked, everyone said they were such hot garbage, they couldn't be real. When they started becoming reality, the vast majority agreed the ending was going to be bad. You can go to the forum here, and see how many were watching the ending out of morbid curiosity, just to see how bad it would be and how others would react. This game can review like the best game of all time. If the spoilers are true, many, many fans will hate it. Because the spoilers are a kick to the teeth of fans imo.

I am not talking about the reaction of bigots. I am talking about the reaction of people who view themselves as fans of the first game. A game that starred a young gay girl and featured a prominent gay romance. Those who watched Ellie and her girlfriend kiss in the trailer and cheered with glee.
 
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Mani-Man said:
Did people actually thought TLOU2 would be something uplifting?
TLOU in the first hour showed you its face, that its in a world that hits hard.

Making TLOU2 more a tragedy, cant be that much of a surprise.
And if im honest, some really hard and deep hitting tragedy in a video game would be a nice surprise.

If i look at Days gone, a similar game and how empty its "happy ending" felt, i dont know if i wouldnt be more for some tragedy than happy endings, despite me being a total fan of those.
Hard to say to be honest, with such games as TLOU you can go a few different ways and decide on a direction...its a 50/50 chance that this decision is good or bad accepted by the audience.
Click to expand...
TLoU is uplifting though. Much like Logan, while it is tragic, it leaves you with love and hope. A man who cut himself off from feeling, begins feeling again when he is asked to deliver a girl across country. The girl who herself is alone in the world. What makes TLoU work so well imo is you fall in love with these two characters, and no matter how tragic it all gets, you realize you living for something. TLoU works because you are Joel and Ellie, and represent their relationship. Their love. I never doubted Joel's decision at the end, because he had no decision. It was either to take the choice of life away from his daughter, or save his girl. That is no decision for a parent. The fireflies proved what they were, and it wasn't good people.
 
DarthSkywalker said:
To me it is not knee jerk. To me it is a natural reaction to what I have read. There are things I expected in the spoilers. There are things I could live with. But there is two aspects of the game that are a big no to me, especially as it take up half the game.
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One of the things you mentioned isn't confirmed and seems like an attempt to blow it up out of proportion.
It makes no sense for them to kill Ellie in the end, based on the leaked videos. I'm 99,99% sure it's not gonna happen.

Also, the idea of making audience empathize with Abby is probably one of the most interesting ideas of the sequel. Is it possible? I think it is. Sending her on redemption arc isn't a new thing in fiction. But I don't remember playing a character that killed another beloved playable character. New territory.
This is why they fear the spoilers so damn much. Because no matter how you spin it as a work of art, it's a game that people will sit and play for hours, and the idea of playing as someone who murdered someone they love is never going to be appealing. Made worse by the idea that you might actually have to play as the person who might kill the other person you love and adore as well. This idea sours the original as well for me.
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It's up to people, of course, if they decide to skip the game, it's certainly not my business... But I don't blame Sony for trying to protect their work any way they can. It's not like they're trying to scam people. Out of context spoilers are destructive and can harm natural flow of the story, not to mention, promotion and sales. I doubt it will be the case for The Last of Us Part II because it's still a hotly anticipated release. But I can't take any dramatic reactions seriously at the moment.
Also consider the marketing. They are selling this game on the first one. On the characters.
Not even a sniff of playing as another character that isn't Ellie, much less one who butchers her father. How will many feel with the idea of not actually playing the 20-25 hours as Ellie like they are being sold?
Click to expand...
You mean like the did for the first game when they said only Joel will be playable? Druckmann even commented that they lied about it on purpose to preserve the impact of the moment. Plus part 2 is like 2 or 3 times bigger than the original and seems to be sort of two games/stories in one.
When GoT spoilers leaked, everyone said they were such hot garbage, they couldn't be real. When they started becoming reality, the vast majority agreed the ending was going to be bad. You can go to the forum here, and see how many were watching the ending out of morbid curiosity, just to see how bad it would be and how others would react. This game can review like the best game of all time. If the spoilers are true, many, many fans will hate it. Because the spoilers are a kick to the teeth of fans imo.
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Not all fans. I'm a fan too. And I see a huge potential in the game.
And regarding GoT, I personally thought GoT sucked starting season 6. After Littlefinger I knew we're in for a wild ride. It wasn't related to missing context, though. I just knew that writers of GoT can't do **** without GRRM's material. And they already missed a chance to start building towards a more or less fleshed out ending. I didn't anticipate season 8 to be that ******ed, but I knew it will be bad long before. Even season 7 was a great indication.
But I don't see any similarity with Part II. And certain confirmed events are traumatic, but I can see artistic intent behind it. I don't consider it empty misery porn.
I am not talking about the reaction of bigots. I am talking about the reaction of people who view themselves as fans of the first game. A game that starred a young gay girl and featured a prominent gay romance. Those who watched Ellie and her girlfriend kiss in the trailer and cheered with glee.
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And now some people are ready to throw it all without even having an objective view at it, because the game dares... Well, OK. I disagree and I'm still looking forward to the game. It's hard to argue about it while not having the full picture. If you already has decided you're definitely skipping it (TO SAVE YOURSELF $60!!!), there's nothing to talk about.

P.S. **** the leaker. What a ****.
 
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