The Libertarian Thread

By the way, you make valid points. Despite the validity of your argument, I strongly disagree with Ron Paul, as well as most of what he stands for, which is the sole reason why I don't feel obligated to waste my time reading his book.
 
Ron Paul's new book "The Revolution: A Manifesto" is currently the best-selling book on Amazon.com, and it was released yesterday. It's sold more copies than other bestsellers have in months.

Long Live the Republic! Death to the New World Order! Liberty Shall Prevail!

Let the Revolution begin.

I'll buy this,it's interesting to view something different. If it was me,I would fight the corrupt Government and put things back to basics. Your either for the people or the corrupt system.
 
I'll buy this,it's interesting to view something different. If it was me,I would fight the corrupt Government and put things back to basics. Your either for the people or the corrupt system.


Then your going to love the book. It's all about getting rid of the corruption and return to the "We the people" of the Constitution.
 
Does it hate the United States, he'll really love that.....*winks*
 
so what is Ron going to do with all that money he bilked...I mean raised from all his supporters?...its certainly not going to campaigning...
 
so what is Ron going to do with all that money he bilked...I mean raised from all his supporters?...its certainly not going to campaigning...

It will be going to campaigning, but not his own. He's already supporting campaigns around the country to get "Ron Paul Republicans" elected into all sorts of offices.
 
First off none of the books mentioned here are nearly as good as Blood Meridian. McCarthy is just the mosquitoe's **** when it comes a proper yarn.

Secondly besides Paul's incredibly stupid comments he's always struck me as an oddity. He seems to support the constitution and what the founding fathers laid out but at the same time wants this incredibly isolationist dictims which pretty much goes against the purpose and intent of the country as a refuge for others (well everyone except the people originally living here, for them we had smallpox).
 
Ron Paul isn't really so much of an isolationist as he is for "non interventionism." He's stated dozens (if not hundreds) of times that he believes in trade and diplomacy between nations--just no nation building, occupations, or undeclared wars. Those beliefs are all very "founding fathers -esque."
 
Ron Paul isn't really so much of an isolationist as he is for "non interventionism." He's stated dozens (if not hundreds) of times that he believes in trade and diplomacy between nations--just no nation building, occupations, or undeclared wars. Those beliefs are all very "founding fathers -esque."

Well he doesn't want anymore immigrants in the county, he believes in complete non intervention, and he's pretty anti foreign trade. The US was founded on immigrants intervening with foreign governments and our entire early budget was based on foreign trade.
 
Well he doesn't want anymore immigrants in the county, he believes in complete non intervention, and he's pretty anti foreign trade. The US was founded on immigrants intervening with foreign governments and our entire early budget was based on foreign trade.

He does want immigrants, he just doesn't want them illegally. Whats wrong with that...you know, besides obeying the law?

He does not believe in complete non intervention. He voted for our invasion of Afghanistan, and believes an enemy that directly threatens American security (like Nazi Germanay for example) merits a war (like World War II for example). But when it comes to nation-building, undeclared wars, and other acts not originally intended by the Founders and not allowed under our Constitution are illegal and thus should not be perpetuated. And that's crap that he's anti-foreign trade. He's all about free trade and the freedom of the markets.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the the U.S. was founded on immigrants intervening in foreign governments. Are you trying to say that the U.S. was founded on immigrants "intervening" so-to-speak in our government? If so, it was to a certain degree. We wouldn't be where we are today if it weren't for the millions of immigrants that came and essentially built this country brick for brick. But during the actual founding? No. If you mean that the U.S. supported immigrants intervening in other countries, that wasn't true really until the CIA started coverty creating insurgencies and overthrowing governments in the 1950's. Please clarify what you mean.
 
It will be going to campaigning, but not his own. He's already supporting campaigns around the country to get "Ron Paul Republicans" elected into all sorts of offices.

and he will fail at that too....so what happens to the money of the good hard working honest folk who so believed in Ron Paul....is anyone looking out for them? I don't think so
 
The "good hard working honest folk" paid their money because they believed in Ron Paul. Are you saying they should get a refund? I guess Hillary's supporters should get one, too!
 
Well he doesn't want anymore immigrants in the county, he believes in complete non intervention, and he's pretty anti foreign trade.

Both of those statements are false. He doesn't want *illegal* immigration, and has also stated many times that people aren't really concerned with illegal immigration when the economy is doing well.

Tell me--how does it benefit anyone to have undocumented citizens pouring over the borders? You don't know who these people are, their criminal records, or if they have any diseases they should be inoculated for.

And he's not anti foreign trade, as he's stated many times that he's open to trading and talking with other countries.

Where are you getting your information from?
 
He does want immigrants, he just doesn't want them illegally. Whats wrong with that...you know, besides obeying the law?

He does not believe in complete non intervention. He voted for our invasion of Afghanistan, and believes an enemy that directly threatens American security (like Nazi Germanay for example) merits a war (like World War II for example). But when it comes to nation-building, undeclared wars, and other acts not originally intended by the Founders and not allowed under our Constitution are illegal and thus should not be perpetuated. And that's crap that he's anti-foreign trade. He's all about free trade and the freedom of the markets.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the the U.S. was founded on immigrants intervening in foreign governments. Are you trying to say that the U.S. was founded on immigrants "intervening" so-to-speak in our government? If so, it was to a certain degree. We wouldn't be where we are today if it weren't for the millions of immigrants that came and essentially built this country brick for brick. But during the actual founding? No. If you mean that the U.S. supported immigrants intervening in other countries, that wasn't true really until the CIA started coverty creating insurgencies and overthrowing governments in the 1950's. Please clarify what you mean.

I guess it's easy to label illegal immigrants as these criminal masterminds bringing down the US from the inside and the only rational solution is to kick their freeloading asses out, but unfortunately I know too many to have that view. Some of them have been here for decades, raised families and do a great deal of the work most US citizens consider beneath them.

Actually, by his stance he would have gone to war with Japan but not germany, since germany and the "jew situation" going on at that time wouldn't have been relevent to US interests.

He's really not about free trade at all. I'm rather confused by that statement.

As far as the intervention thing goes I was saying the US was founded by immigrants interveining in foreign affairs of others, both as a basis for the formation of the government and then as the basis to protect and safeguard the fledgling nation. All governments tamper in the affairs of others, hell you could call Ben Franklin our first spy.

BTW the US has purposely destabilized goverments by denying aid or giving aid to other countries as an effective way of keeping them from taking over the fledgling country.
 
I guess it's easy to label illegal immigrants as these criminal masterminds bringing down the US from the inside and the only rational solution is to kick their freeloading asses out, but unfortunately I know too many to have that view. Some of them have been here for decades, raised families and do a great deal of the work most US citizens consider beneath them.

And I suppose it's even easier to generalize everyone who opposes illegal immigration as being flat out bigots. This is an ignorant and assumptive comment, and we all know what happens when one assumes. Ron Paul doesn't blame illegal immigrants for "bringing down the U.S. from the inside" nor do I, or any sensible person for that matter. We actually blame the poor decisions of the politicians in Washington. The fact of the matter is that our bloated entitlement programs can't even sustain American citizens for much longer. How is it fair to benefit people here illegally with these benefits when many American born citizens are denied them, especially considering that these programs, as already said, can't remain much longer? And is it right to reward illegal behavior? You tell me since you seem to know.

Actually, by his stance he would have gone to war with Japan but not germany, since germany and the "jew situation" going on at that time wouldn't have been relevent to US interests.

Sure. Nazi Germany was an example, as is Japan. Was this comment trying to raise a point or make me sound stupid or...what?

He's really not about free trade at all. I'm rather confused by that statement.

And I'm confused about your confusion. I'll quote from Ron Paul himself: "Prosperity comes not just from economic freedom at home, but also from the freedom to trade abroad. If free trade were not beneficial, it would make sense for us to 'protect jobs' by buying only those goods produced entirely in our own towns. Or we could purchase only those goods produced on the streets where we live. Better still, we could restrict our purchases only from our own immediate family members. When the logic of trade restriction is taken to its natural conclusion, its impoverishing effects become too obvious to miss". It would be beneficial to learn more about where he stands before you make yourself look foolish.

As far as the intervention thing goes I was saying the US was founded by immigrants interveining in foreign affairs of others, both as a basis for the formation of the government and then as the basis to protect and safeguard the fledgling nation. All governments tamper in the affairs of others, hell you could call Ben Franklin our first spy.

No we didn't. We declared independance from the British and engaged them in a war for that independance. Therefore, spying and "intervening" were justifiable because of that state of war. And even if there is no war, it is one thing to know what other countries are doing, and another to interfer in the internal self-determination of another people or government. This only breeds resentment and hatred, and we tragically became aware of those ill feelings on September 11th. We were also warned by the people who created this country about the pitfalls of such policies:

"Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand; neither seeking nor granting exclusive favors or preferences. The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commerical relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible...Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?"

-George Washington

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations. Entangling alliances with none."

-Thomas Jefferson.

I'm not sure which history of the early United States was presented to you in high school or college, but it was clearly not the one based in reality or you just didn't pay attention.



BTW the US has purposely destabilized goverments by denying aid or giving aid to other countries as an effective way of keeping them from taking over the fledgling country.

What powerful country were we financially aiding to prevent them from taking over our fledgling country? Are you asserting that we gave the British Empire "aid" to convince them they should not take us over? Why would any country more powerful than another take "aid" from the weaker one if it wanted to invade? Again, it seems you were sleeping in history class.


How many people here just dislike Ron Paul because Sean Hannity does? Please people. Educate yourselves.
 
How many people here just dislike Ron Paul because Sean Hannity does? Please people. Educate yourselves.

Yeah I mainly don't like him for the racist stuff too, but I also hate people that look down their crooked noses at illegals.

I've never watched Hannity's show, don't assume you just look foolish.
 
Yeah I mainly don't like him for the racist stuff too, but I also hate people that look down their crooked noses at illegals.

I've never watched Hannity's show, don't assume you just look foolish.

Ron Paul and his thoughts on racism:

No form of political organization, therefore, is immune to cruel abuses like the Jim Crow laws, whereby government sets out to legislate on how groups of human beings are allowed to interact with one another. Peaceful civil disobedience to unjust laws, which I support with every fiber of my being, can sometimes be necessary at any level of government. It falls upon the people, in the last resort to stand against injustice no matter where it occurs.

In the long run, the only way racism can be overcome is through the philosophy of individualism, which I have promoted throughout my life. Our rights come to us to us not because we belong to some group, but our rights come to us as individuals. And it is as an individual that we should judge one another. Racism is a particularly odious form of collectivism whereby individuals are treated not on their merits but on the basis of group identity. Nothing in my political philosophy, which is the exact opposite of racial totalitarianism of the twentieth century, gives aid or comfort to such thinking. To the contrary, my philosophy of individualism is the most radical intellectual challenge to racism ever posed.


And if you're referring to the "Ron Paul Newsletter" that called MLK a communist and made other absurd insinuations, it was not written by Ron Paul. It was originally intended as a newsletter written by many different authors where they can publish op-ed pieces. Because his name was on the title, he gets blamed for the rants of someone else. Of course this fact was far overshadowed by his name and racial comments being on the same piece of paper in the mainstream media.

And I apologize for claiming that you watch Hannity. I meant to say the media more generally, as most pundits barley talk about Paul, and if they do, it’s not typically in good terms. Most people base their facts on what information is given to them by the mainstream media. When we realize that the media is just as susceptible to propaganda as any other form of communication, we can finally have a chance to cut through the garbage and get to the truth. It bothers me that many people only know Ron Paul and his ideas through television. It creates skewed opinions. As Paul says, "Truth is treason in the empire of lies."
 
And if you're referring to the "Ron Paul Newsletter" that called MLK a communist and made other absurd insinuations, it was not written by Ron Paul. It was originally intended as a newsletter written by many different authors where they can publish op-ed pieces. Because his name was on the title, he gets blamed for the rants of someone else. Of course this fact was far overshadowed by his name and racial comments being on the same piece of paper in the mainstream media.

He should have been more responsible as to where his name is used and what it is attached to. His lack thereof, may not make him a racist, but no prepared statement will make me believe he doesn't have those thoughts or beliefs
 
He should have been more responsible as to where his name is used and what it is attached to. His lack thereof, may not make him a racist, but no prepared statement will make me believe he doesn't have those thoughts or beliefs

Than in that case you can't cemently belive he does have those thoughts or beliefs can you?
 
Some of his stuff I don't agree with (I think it's constitutional to legalized same-sex marriage in the whole country), but he's definitely a lot better than the other Republican candidates and the nominee.
 
Despite the fact that he did not write it, he refutes what was written, and he presents what could be a very efficient response to racial thought in America.

Although I disagree, you're entitled to your opinion.
 

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