The Libertarian Thread

[AllThingsComic]

And just what are the "values" of most Americans? Because to me, I thought that was a country founded by the people and for the people, not big interest company gov't. Values, really? What are the values that the other politicians are bringing to the table? By the way, the people I was referring to are the people who want to vote for Paul, but don't think he has a chance. If everyone that thought that actually did vote for him, I think this race would be alot closer that it actually is.

 

[bell110]

But, he's not a extremist nut job, that's just how the media portrays him. And if America is so moderate, why don't they vote that?

 

[Matt]

And just what are the "values" of most Americans? Because to me, I thought that was a country founded by the people and for the people,

Exactly, and the people have spoken and they overwhelmingly do NOT want Ron Paul in office.

not big interest company gov't. Values, really? What are the values that the other politicians are bringing to the table? By the way, the people I was referring to are the people who want to vote for Paul, but don't think he has a chance. If everyone that thought that actually did vote for him, I think this race would be alot closer that it actually is.

I'm guessing maybe, if you are lucky, he would get a 5 to 10 % boost if people who won't vote for him because he has no chance voted for him. And that would hardly make the race much closer.

 

[Matt]

But, he's not a extremist nut job, that's just how the media portrays him. And if America is so moderate, why don't they vote that?

He is an extremist. He is a radical constitutionalist. Now whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is up to you, but he is most definitely an extremist.

 

[AllThingsComic]

If we would have followed the Constitution, we wouldn't be in all the bull***** we are in right now. If that is an extremist, then sign me up for the nuthouse!
All I am concerned about is my childrens future, and IN MY OPINION, Ron Paul is the only one out there trying make that possible. If we continue to fight this war that the American people did not choose to go into, we are going to collapse from within. The gov't is going to bankrupt this country to the point of no return, leaving our children and our childrens children and thier children paying for our mistakes.

 

[Matt]

If we would have followed the Constitution, we wouldn't be in all the bull***** we are in right now. If that is an extremist, then sign me up for the nuthouse!
All I am concerned about is my childrens future, and IN MY OPINION, Ron Paul is the only one out there trying make that possible. If we continue to fight this war that the American people did not choose to go into, we are going to collapse from within. The gov't is going to bankrupt this country to the point of no return, leaving our children and our childrens children and thier children paying for our mistakes.

Maybe you're right. I personally believe the consitution is a living document and should be seen as such. I believe that we can solve our financial problems and problems abroad without becoming an isolationist country.

 

[AllThingsComic]

I for the life of me can't understand why people think Ron Paul is an isolationist? Here is the Websters defenition of an isolationist:

: a policy of national isolation by abstention from alliances and other international political and economic relations
— iso·la·tion·ist \-sh(ə-)nist\ noun or adjective

Ron Paul is all for trading with foreign governments, would that not fall under economic relations? So because he wants to cut out all the beaurocracies and nation building and take care of his homeland, he's an isolationist? I cannot fathom how anyone can consider this extreme or lunacy? To make America strong and self dependant, and to protect our own borders and let us be free to make our own decisions, isn't this what this place was founded on? Isn't this why we have millions of people trying to sneak their way into our land and why our ancestors fought to get here? This isn't the same country our Grandparents died to get to.

 

[Denny67]

Maybe you're right. I personally believe the consitution is a living document and should be seen as such. I believe that we can solve our financial problems and problems abroad without becoming an isolationist country.

You have brought up two separate topics here.
First off you are absolutely right. The Constitution is a living document but that means there are proper steps that need to be taken in order to change it and those changes should never be taken lightly as they have a huge impact on our rights as citizens.

Second I have not seen a single person suggest or condone an isolationist policy. This is a trumped up charge against the Paul campaign that has been disproved many times over. As he has stated, he wants open trade, communication, and tourism/travel with all countries. He (as many think) just does not feel it is out responsibility, place or right to police the world. When you look at the Paul foreign policy logically and suspend the rhetoric it is in fact the exact opposite of isolationism.

Isolationism is all encompassing and is based on the principal that you sever all political negations, exports and imports with outside courtiers. Nobody wants that nor does anybody think that is a realistic way of life in the modern world.

 

[Denny67]

Exactly, and the people have spoken and they overwhelmingly do NOT want Ron Paul in office.



I'm guessing maybe, if you are lucky, he would get a 5 to 10 % boost if people who won't vote for him because he has no chance voted for him. And that would hardly make the race much closer.

And the media/corporate complex putting their own narrative on the entire election process has had nothing to do with how Americans are voting right?

 

[Matt]

And the media/corporate complex putting their own narrative on the entire election process has had nothing to do with how Americans are voting right?

Its not your place to judge how or why people vote. People are living, thinking, things. If they wish to allow the media to think for them, than it is their choice as a citizen.

 

[bunk]

There are nothing but Ron Paul signs where I live. No Hillary, Obama, McCain... It's kind of weird. I know there are plenty of Dems too, they're just waiting for a nominee I think.

 

[jaguarr]

Its not your place to judge how or why people vote. People are living, thinking, things. If they wish to allow the media to think for them, than it is their choice as a citizen.

But it's also not his place to keep his mouth shut when he sees things that he disagrees with or things happening in the media that aren't on the up and up. That's why we have freedom of speech and he's certainly entitled to use it.

jag

 

[Matt]

But it's also not his place to keep his mouth shut when he sees things that he disagrees with or things happening in the media that aren't on the up and up. That's why we have freedom of speech and he's certainly entitled to use it.

jag

Correct. I just find the mentality surrounding Paul supporters, that some how he was screwed out of the nomination, when the fact is...no one voted for him, plain and simple to be humorous.

 

[Denny67]

Correct. I just find the mentality surrounding Paul supporters, that some how he was screwed out of the nomination, when the fact is...no one voted for him, plain and simple to be humorous.

So you are honestly saying that between talk radio, televised debates, news paper coverage, so on and so on that everything you have seen to date is just fine and dandy? That Obama, Clinton, McCain and Romney have not had the majority of the coverage and face time?
Nothing odd or imbalanced about the entire process. I mean if you say no that is fine. It is your personal observation and I am not going to try and convince you otherwise. If your answer is yes something seems very off (which IMO you should) you have to ask…

Why?
Who Benefits from this?
What does that say about us as a nation?
How far does this slippery slope take us?

The simple fact that you assert that it is not my place and be default “right” to disagree says a lot about you and your understanding about our freedoms as Americans.
Our perspective has slowly been changed in this country over the course of many years and our Constitution is being replaced be corporate policy. But all you have to do to silence anybody who points this fact out is label them a conspiracy theorist, radical or whack job and they immediately lose all credibly alone with their claim.

This in affect is what has happened with Ron Paul. Much like calling someone a child molester or a rapist, once the allegation is out there you are forever tainted. Most people will not look any further into a subject or an individual past the outlandish headlines. Hence perception is reality… Ron Paul is a radical, isolationist, racist, whacko… because the media and bloggers and the seriously misinformed say so.

This is what you get with a society of the "TV informed."

If you are willing to spend 65 min to get to the know the guy (even though it is too late) here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCM_wQy4YVg

Here is a man who understands the social contract the people have with the Government in the form of the Constitution and he is an economist in a time of economic distress.

 

[AllThingsComic]

Bravo Denny, you just summed up what I have been trying to put into words absolutely perfect.

 

[BlackLantern]

well I believe Ron Paul is a rascist as seen in his "newsletters' whether or not he wrote them is irrelevant to me...his name is associated with them and thats all I need

 

[Denny67]

well I believe Ron Paul is a rascist as seen in his "newsletters' whether or not he wrote them is irrelevant to me...his name is associated with them and thats all I need

I can’t argue with that any more than I can argue with people who truly believe the earth is 5000 years old or real racist who think their ethnic gene pool is some how superior to others.

In the end some people are going to believe what they believe regardless of the facts.

 

[BlackLantern]

that and there is an office pool going as to when Ron will drop out of the race....I have the first week in August I believe....regardless of the newsletters..I'm not good with his whole semi-isolationist policy...we are living in a connected world now and we need to make those relationships better, acknowledge that other countries have say

 

[Denny67]

that and there is an office pool going as to when Ron will drop out of the race....I have the first week in August I believe....regardless of the newsletters..I'm not good with his whole semi-isolationist policy...we are living in a connected world now and we need to make those relationships better, acknowledge that other countries have say

If you could please explain his “semi-isolationist” policy if you can. I have been following Ron Paul for some time now and that keeps coming up and I have yet to ever hear him say or write or vote on anything that even comes close to supporting that accusation.

Oh unless you mean that he has stated that we should not assume the responsibility or have the right to police the world.

That tends to put a strain on relationships with other countries… or by “connected world” do you mean the US connecting its foot in the other countries collective asses at will?

They have a word for that… Empire.

 

[BlackLantern]

I meant connected as in we trade with other countries, we import and export goods from other countries, Countries' economies are growing larger and larger (India, China so on)....to be honest I have taken a look at all the serious candidates, Ron included, and not one of them makes me believe they can be President

 

[Lobster Charlie]

He's not an isolationist. He's saying that we shouldn't have military bases in over 100 countries all around the world. He's saying that trade, travel, and diplomacy is the basis of our relationships with other countries, and if there is an armed conflict, we should declare war before be invade sovereign nations.

I'm of the opinion that if George Bush could make it into office, Ron Paul would do 1,000 times better than he could.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

He is an extremist. He is a radical constitutionalist. Now whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is up to you, but he is most definitely an extremist.

If our country was founded with the constitution as it's backbone, how does that make a supporter of that document an "extremist?"

What's truly extreme is how far we've slipped from what the spirit of America is really all about. These days, it seems people just want to sit back and have big government sort out of all our problems for us while we watch our new HD DVDs and stuff our brains full of sports stats and celebrity gossip.

This country was founded by the people, for the people, and in order to keep it strong, there must a strain of vigilance coursing through our veins. That means keeping a constant eye on those people we elect as our leaders, and always fighting for our civil and individual liberties.

I'm by no means anywhere near perfect, and only recently I've come to understand a bit of what's been going on behind closed doors, and it disgusts me. Unlike a lot of my friends, I have no country to run away to once the ***** truly hits the fan, so these things begin to matter to me more and more.

I guess technically you're right, Matt. We've fallen so far from what our country once stood for, that it'd truly by "extreme" to follow the document that defines us as a nation.

 

[AllThingsComic]

If our country was founded with the constitution as it's backbone, how does that make a supporter of that document an "extremist?"

What's truly extreme is how far we've slipped from what the spirit of America is really all about. These days, it seems people just want to sit back and have big government sort out of all our problems for us while we watch our new HD DVDs and stuff our brains full of sports stats and celebrity gossip.

This country was founded by the people, for the people, and in order to keep it strong, there must a strain of vigilance coursing through our veins. That means keeping a constant eye on those people we elect as our leaders, and always fighting for our civil and individual liberties.

I'm by no means anywhere near perfect, and only recently I've come to understand a bit of what's been going on behind closed doors, and it disgusts me. Unlike a lot of my friends, I have no country to run away to once the ***** truly hits the fan, so these things begin to matter to me more and more.

I guess technically you're right, Matt. We've fallen so far from what our country once stood for, that it'd truly by "extreme" to follow the document that defines us as a nation.

YES!! As I stated earlier, it's all about my kids thier kids and thier kids kids, and all the future generations for that matter that I am most worried about.

 

[BlackLantern]

also the problem Ron has is the support he does have isnt centralized.....he might be the darling of the Information Supherhighway but his support is all over the place...

 

[Super_Ludacris]

But how is he going to win, when no one knows who he is?

He's the most honest, kindest, open hearted man. I could just see from the look in his eyes, and the way he interact with other folks, so I voted for him.

Unlike Romney, Huckabee, Mccain, Obama, or Clinton.

Maybe you should have thought about that before you wasted your vote on him.