The Amazing Spider-Man The Lizard: CGI or Practical

[Gamma Burst]

Mine are (in no particular order)

Steve Ditko/John Romita Sr. (Both equally amazing)
John Romita Jr.
Ron Frenz
Sal Buscema
Ross Andru
Mark Bagley
Todd Mcfarlane

Great list. I'd add Gil Kane and it would be perfect.

 

[bubbadoom]

I like how folks above keep pointing to Jurassic Park as an example of cgi dinos when the vast majority of the dinos in that movie were practical effects and not cgi. Look at Hellboy vs. Wink in HB2 - Wink is much taller than HB and that's ALL practical.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

I like how folks above keep pointing to Jurassic Park as an example of cgi dinos when the vast majority of the dinos in that movie were practical effects and not cgi. Look at Hellboy vs. Wink in HB2 - Wink is much taller than HB and that's ALL practical.

superb point, hate to break it to a lot of the cgi supporters, but 90% of the first t-rex attack is a real full size robotic rex

get stan winston studios on this thing now

 

[spider-neil]

I like how folks above keep pointing to Jurassic Park as an example of cgi dinos when the vast majority of the dinos in that movie were practical effects and not cgi. Look at Hellboy vs. Wink in HB2 - Wink is much taller than HB and that's ALL practical.

wink is slow and lumbering whereas I would expect the lizard to be lighting quick.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Since you guys are in the fave artists list thing:
John Romita sr
Mark Bagley
Jim Mooney
Al Milgrom
Ross Andrew
Mark Buckengham
Ron Frenz
Keith Pollard

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

yeah, I think you missed the point of my post, whether some were practical or not, some were CGI, and looked like real creatures onscreen, not cartoons, so JP proved you can do convincing lizards onscreen, and as sn says, the Lizard has to be a v slick, superhumanly quick figure, just like Spider-man. I don't see the problem in doing him 100% CGI, but I do see a problem in doing him with practical effects, ie there are some things you are just not going to be able to do with him.
So, if you can do a v convincing lizard with CG, why bother with any practical effecst at all?
and this is coming from someone is is v pleased the new prequel to 'The Thing' will be mostly practical effects. I am only interested in what sfx is most beneficial to the movie, I'm not going to hanker for good old practical effects, just because that is considered the 'real' and most 'worthy' way of doing effects in most circles, and CGI is almost a dirty word. If the lizard skin shoe fits , wear it, although i would watch out for peta parker.

 

[craigdbfan]

Honestly I wouldn't mind a mocap CGI Lizard either.

Mocap and CGI are in Sony Imageworks speciality at this point I would assume. They did some amazing work over the years now in retrospect. Also they are doing the stuff for Green Lantern and it's looking pretty good IMO.

I think Webb might be willing enough to rely on their experience on the Spidey franchise and their current projects that they could handle an all CGI Lizrad with smart practicallity here and there.

Saving money in parts of the movie by having him in his now iconic doctor attire. Meaning he can have a more savage progression of changing late in the movie (where a lot of the CGI money might go) they'll save money with the doctor wardrobe as they only have to mocap the arms, legs, neck and head. I know most Spidey fans including me won't mind seeing Doc Lizard running around for most the movie being as equally as nimble like Spidey.

 

[bubbadoom]

Is Spidey going to be 100% cgi - I do not think so. So why not the same for the Lizard?

I have no problem with digital effects - when done well and by the right companies.

But if the budget rumors for SM4 are true [$80 million] then I do not think they have the bucks to pull this off, unless the Lizard is going to be in this very little, which I would hate to see.

If we have a nice practical Lizard, with any digital enhancements that may be necessary [eye blinks, whipping tail, etc.], as well as the digital stunt doubles for when they are needed, then I think we can get a believable and affordable Lizard. Both HB movies are full of examples of this [Abe, Sammael, etc.].

 

[Eelectro 2]

i believe the transformation process will require cgi, the end result would look amazing if it was a fully realized cg character like avatar but i would want there to be as much good prosthetic and practical makeup and effects as possible. if he has a slow transformation process i would love to see the actor with the makeup but i couldnt see a giant lizard creature being a guy in a suit tho

 

[bubbadoom]

To get Avatar level effects in SM4 you will need to add several hundred million to the budget!

Creatures like the Lizard have been done convincingly via make-up effects since the Creature From the Black Lagoon in the early '50's, so one should have no problem visualizing what that might look like today. When you low ball the budget on totally digital characters you get I AM LEGEND level effects, and no one wants to see that in a Spidey movie!

 

[Eelectro 2]

see thats where you are wrong. i am just saying what i personally would believe would work the best, what remains to be seen in the film is a totally different story. i dont want to see a guy in a suit that is supposed to be a large reptile. this isnt the japanese godzilla. the anatomy and the size of the limbs alone means that a suit would have to be worn by a very lean actor with cg enhancements which would most liekly replace certain aspects of the character. its totally plausible. i was merely suggesting avatar-like effects because they are among the best, however for a reptilian monster there doesnt need to be the effects needed to allow emotion or sadness. sure a well-done practical head along the lines of what you see in movies like hellboy look fantastic and all, but for what i would imagine the lizard will be doing in the film, its beyond what a guy in a suit can do, for the most part.

keep the guys in suits for movies like predators, aliens, and underworld. for the most part lizard should be realistically realized as gollum, king kong, or silver surfer were, which is mokap but almost entirely cgi. it would just be easier to see a kick-ass creature such as the lizard done wonderfully and not held back by obvious electronic mechanisms unless they plan to be like nothing ever seen in a film yet. my vision of him wouldnt be walking around in a lab coat upright like a person. he needs to be bent over with his tail writhing about and holding himself in a way that only lizards can (assuming they arent on all fours)

 

[craigdbfan]

Why can't it be a progression?

I don't see why we can't get both. In all likelihood it'll be a steady progression of change throughout the movie.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got to see both the bipedal lab coat Lizard and the more bent over giant savage raptor looking one thats even more agile than his last "version". It would make for a great last battle too.

 

[bubbadoom]

not sure where I am wrong in what I said above. Of course I am not talking about Godzilla level suits, but classic state of the art ones like the Creature, Humanoids from the Deep, Predator, etc. I guess it depends on the design they are using, but the best Lizard I have seen in the comics [Steve Ditko's] could be easily created by practical means. If you want to give it the dino legs [like the faun in Pan's Lab.], that's easy to do, too. I personally do not want to see Spidey fight a Lizard that looks like a JP raptor, but even if he does, those were mostly practical, too. I think it's safe to assume that many of the fights will happen in sewers and such, so practical would work there, too.

But, like with the Hulk, I am more concerned with the design of the Lizard than how it's done. If they use the right design [something both Hulks have yet to do] I will be happy...

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Creatures like the Lizard have been done convincingly via make-up effects since the Creature From the Black Lagoon in the early '50's, so one should have no problem visualizing what that might look like today. When you low ball the budget on totally digital characters you get I AM LEGEND level effects, and no one wants to see that in a Spidey movie!

The problem with the IAL vamps was not so much the lack of budget(it actually looks like they spent a lot on them), more that they were human, basically, in appearance, which is the hardest CGI to convince the human eye with. When the vamps were lying down on his table, comatose, they looked much better, the skin etc, looked a v good texture, it's when you have to animate the CG humans that they start to look fake to our eyes, there is a lot going on in the facial structure when it moves, lots of tiny details that are lost in translation.
With a lizard though, it is a more basic structure, and the scales can be reproduced better than human skin, as we saw in JP, which was twenty years ago, so imagine what they can do , even on a lower budget, today.

 

[spider-neil]

there are pros and cons to both

CG

pros
* you can have the lizard move a way not possible with practical effects

* you can make the lizard any size and any shape

cons
* it may not look realistic which may take you out of the movie

-----

practical

pros
* the model will absolutely look real because it IS real

* the actors have something to act to so will probably give a better performance

cons
* the model probably wont be very agile which will result in very static fights


I see it as;
GG v spidey - practical
Doc ock - CG

the GG goblin cemetery fight was brutal and completely believeable as it was real, with real actors and stunt people

vs

the doc ock train fight which was all brutal, it lacked the realism but more than made up for that with fantastic visuals and movement.

 

[Oscorp]

I'd actually like if Lizard looked something like this in the movie:

 

[Alchemyst]

I'm thinking that it may be a mix of both, they will probably use the actor to do most of the physical stuff, possible have markers on his face to add in the Lizard effects, make it to where the actors emotions could be displayed through the lizards face. Also, in the same fashion as they did with Nightcrawler in X2, his tail may be CGI so that it will have it's own behavior.

 

[The Lizard]

I don't think the Lizard should be too huge if he appears in the film, because of too many similarities to the Hulk.
Lizard already shares a lot in common with Hulk: being a Jekyll/ Hyde character, a scientist alter-ego, green skin and purple pants (although the movie version Lizard might not have either of these), so I don't think the Lizard should be portrayed as being too huge and hulking. Keep Lizzy sleek, quick and graceful in a reptilian kind of way.

 

[Naite22]

^ Damn! That image above would be a dream come true!!.. But I highly doubt we'll see something THAT frighteningly cool! Although I'd love it

 

[spider-neil]

a really cool scene would be spidey punching the lizard and almost breaking his hand so he webs himself some boxing gloves

spidey - 'float like a butterfly and sting like a bee...well, spider. do spiders sting? technically they bite'

spidey running off at the mouth while this thing from hell is trying to tear him limb from limb.

 

[storyteller]

Depends on the lizard type. Some have the lizard being more humanoid so makeup would be a way to go. Others have him actually be a big mutant lizard. Big in the sense that he's 7 to 8 feet tall and his body is like a lizard and not human being. In that case cgi all the way. When people say Raimi overused cgi, its where they could have gotten like an actor to do the shot. The lizard in most cases just aint happening with a robot/man in costume.

 

[Superboy-Prime]

the aliens from Alien were not CGI and they look INCREDIBLE, even to this day they rival nearly every single CGI alien to date. I would like a practical Lizard with a tiny little bit of CGI

 

[Octoberist]

Since the 70s, the alien (xenomorphs) are awesome in design, thanks to HR GIGER and later, Stan Winston.

You just need..a good designer. I feel like sometimes in today's genre films, creature design has been watered down. The only filmmaker that I can think of that embraces good creature design is Guillermo del Toro. Others too are creative (Neill Bloomkamp, Peter Jackson), but he is on top.

 

[Doc Samson]

Why can't it be a progression?

I don't see why we can't get both. In all likelihood it'll be a steady progression of change throughout the movie.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got to see both the bipedal lab coat Lizard and the more bent over giant savage raptor looking one thats even more agile than his last "version". It would make for a great last battle too.

This is actually a great idea, even though I'm partial to the more humanoid incarnation myself. I think it would make the villain at least somewhat unique and different from the many "mad scientist" types that permeate Spidey's gallery

 

[Octoberist]

I like the progression too.

I too prefer teh humanoid incarnation. Personally, it's more surreal and scary for some odd reason. Maybe because it's more human like, and there's some humanity in there, hence being more tragic but gruelsome.