Comics The Lizard question?

[The Geek Vault]

So I heard recently that it was revealed that Kurt Connor's was in Control of the Lizard persona and had just used the "multiple personality" thing as cover for his crimes? Is this true?

 

[Themanofbat]

First of all, it's "Curt" and not "Kurt", and there's a poster named "The Lizard" who can answer ANY and ALL Lizard related questions, so send him a PM with the link to this thread, and he'll come with answers...

 

[Venom 1988]

So I heard recently that it was revealed that Kurt Connor's was in Control of the Lizard persona and had just used the "multiple personality" thing as cover for his crimes? Is this true?

Yes, but the story has been forgotten

 

[The Lizard]

So I heard recently that it was revealed that Kurt Connor's was in Control of the Lizard persona and had just used the "multiple personality" thing as cover for his crimes? Is this true?

Yes, but the story has been forgotten

*magically appears* Hello! t:

Yes, that storyline was "The Lizard's Tale", written by Paul Jenkins in Spectacular Spider-Man # 11-13 in 2004. The story had a lot of continuity goofs in it that really should have been caught by Jenkins or his editor.

It was the first real Lizard story written after Martha Connors died of cancer in the 2002 mini-series Spider-Man: Quality of Life, so Jenkins dealt with Curt Connors being angry at the world and going all reptile on Spidey again.

The first of the two BIG screw-ups in the story was Connors suddenly knowing that Peter was Spider-Man for no apparent reason. The second one was introducing the idea that Curt was controlling the Lizard all along and just using Lizzy as a cover for his own anger management issues.

In previous Spidey comics, Connors had stated that the Lizard's personality is indeed partly a result of the unconscious anger stored in Curt's subconscious, or the "reptilian" part of his brain. However, it's been made clear that Curt himself is a decent, caring person. Jenkins kind of crossed the line in revealing Curt to be a deceitful sociopath who was happy to let the Lizard run amok all those past times.

Jenkins' story ended with Curt transforming back to human and staging a bank robbery just to get himself arrested and put in jail. In all of the Lizard storylines since then, however, there has been no more mention of the "evil Connors". Apparently the change in the character was too drastic, so all the writers since then have chosen to ignore Jenkins' storyline. Now that brand New Day has come along, it looks like the mistake of Connors knowing Spidey's secret identity has been done away with too. Gotta love those retcons.


Yes, this was probably MUCH more info than you cared to know, but there it is anyway.

 

[SPIDER-ADDA]

This is for The Lizard

Do you think Martha is still dead, considering that
Spidey's history is being re-written?

 

[Donald Thomas]

*magically appears* Hello! t:

Yes, that storyline was "The Lizard's Tale", written by Paul Jenkins in Spectacular Spider-Man # 11-13 in 2004. The story had a lot of continuity goofs in it that really should have been caught by Jenkins or his editor.

It was the first real Lizard story written after Martha Connors died of cancer in the 2002 mini-series Spider-Man: Quality of Life, so Jenkins dealt with Curt Connors being angry at the world and going all reptile on Spidey again.

The first of the two BIG screw-ups in the story was Connors suddenly knowing that Peter was Spider-Man for no apparent reason. The second one was introducing the idea that Curt was controlling the Lizard all along and just using Lizzy as a cover for his own anger management issues.

In previous Spidey comics, Connors had stated that the Lizard's personality is indeed partly a result of the unconscious anger stored in Curt's subconscious, or the "reptilian" part of his brain. However, it's been made clear that Curt himself is a decent, caring person. Jenkins kind of crossed the line in revealing Curt to be a deceitful sociopath who was happy to let the Lizard run amok all those past times.

Jenkins' story ended with Curt transforming back to human and staging a bank robbery just to get himself arrested and put in jail. In all of the Lizard storylines since then, however, there has been no more mention of the "evil Connors". Apparently the change in the character was too drastic, so all the writers since then have chosen to ignore Jenkins' storyline. Now that brand New Day has come along, it looks like the mistake of Connors knowing Spidey's secret identity has been done away with too. Gotta love those retcons.


Yes, this was probably MUCH more info than you cared to know, but there it is anyway.

Aloha,
It's great to have a Lizard GO TO GUY.
Keep Hisssing.
Spidey rules

 

[The Lizard]

This is for The Lizard

Do you think Martha is still dead, considering that
Spidey's history is being reset?

At this time I would guess that she is going to remain dead. The main point of the reset was to get Peter single again and to undo the unmasking. It would be nice if other stupidity like Norman Osborn knocking up Gwen Stacy is erased as well, but that wasn't the primary goal of "Brand New Day".

Martha was killed off in a 4-issue experimental CGI limited series that wasn't widely read, which I've considered a bad decision. It seemed like the Marvel editors were just ignoring a lot of the stuff that was going on in the many Spidey mini-series at the time, so the writer slipped in the death of a long-standing character. Unfortunately I think too much time has passed and there's been too many references to Curt being a widower since 2002.

If Martha ever comes back, my guess is that there would have to be some kind of specific storyline to explain it, and I can't see that happening for a minor character.

 

[Donald Thomas]

At this time I would guess that she is going to remain dead. The main point of the reset was to get Peter single again and to undo the unmasking. It would be nice if other stupidity like Norman Osborn knocking up Gwen Stacy is erased as well, but that wasn't the primary goal of "Brand New Day".

Martha was killed off in a 4-issue experimental CGI limited series that wasn't widely read, which I've considered a bad decision. It seemed like the Marvel editors were just ignoring a lot of the stuff that was going on in the many Spidey mini-series at the time, so the writer slipped in the death of a long-standing character. Unfortunately I think too much time has passed and there's been too many references to Curt being a widower since 2002.

If Martha ever comes back, my guess is that there would have to be some kind of specific storyline to explain it, and I can't see that happening for a minor character.

Aloha,
But he could get married again.Maybe to another scientist or doctor, who helps him with his condition.
Spidey rules

 

[The Geek Vault]

*magically appears* Hello! t:

Yes, that storyline was "The Lizard's Tale", written by Paul Jenkins in Spectacular Spider-Man # 11-13 in 2004. The story had a lot of continuity goofs in it that really should have been caught by Jenkins or his editor.

It was the first real Lizard story written after Martha Connors died of cancer in the 2002 mini-series Spider-Man: Quality of Life, so Jenkins dealt with Curt Connors being angry at the world and going all reptile on Spidey again.

The first of the two BIG screw-ups in the story was Connors suddenly knowing that Peter was Spider-Man for no apparent reason. The second one was introducing the idea that Curt was controlling the Lizard all along and just using Lizzy as a cover for his own anger management issues.

In previous Spidey comics, Connors had stated that the Lizard's personality is indeed partly a result of the unconscious anger stored in Curt's subconscious, or the "reptilian" part of his brain. However, it's been made clear that Curt himself is a decent, caring person. Jenkins kind of crossed the line in revealing Curt to be a deceitful sociopath who was happy to let the Lizard run amok all those past times.

Jenkins' story ended with Curt transforming back to human and staging a bank robbery just to get himself arrested and put in jail. In all of the Lizard storylines since then, however, there has been no more mention of the "evil Connors". Apparently the change in the character was too drastic, so all the writers since then have chosen to ignore Jenkins' storyline. Now that brand New Day has come along, it looks like the mistake of Connors knowing Spidey's secret identity has been done away with too. Gotta love those retcons.


Yes, this was probably MUCH more info than you cared to know, but there it is anyway.

Actually this is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks very much Lizard!

 

[Ray-Fu]

Hahah...I love how The Lizard magically appeared in this thread That was great, even though I had a hunch the thread title would draw him in. You rock dude!

 

[Themanofbat]

Aloha,
It's great to have a Lizard GO TO GUY.
Keep Hisssing.
Spidey rules

You know... it IS good to have a Lizard GO TO GUY...

 

[The Lizard]

Aloha,
But he could get married again.Maybe to another scientist or doctor, who helps him with his condition.

True, and it does seem like forensic specialist Carlie Cooper might have a bit of a crush on Doc Connors in recent ASM issues...

 

[Themanofbat]

Maybe I read it wrong, but there was a mischievous look on the good doctor's face at the end of the Freak storyline... like maybe he was keeping something from Spidey...

 

[Donald Thomas]

True, and it does seem like forensic specialist Carlie Cooper might have a bit of a crush on Doc Connors in recent ASM issues...

Aloha and Hiss,
I was thinking the same thing.
Spidey rules

 

[wolvie2020]

*magically appears* Hello! t:

Yes, that storyline was "The Lizard's Tale", written by Paul Jenkins in Spectacular Spider-Man # 11-13 in 2004. The story had a lot of continuity goofs in it that really should have been caught by Jenkins or his editor.

It was the first real Lizard story written after Martha Connors died of cancer in the 2002 mini-series Spider-Man: Quality of Life, so Jenkins dealt with Curt Connors being angry at the world and going all reptile on Spidey again.

The first of the two BIG screw-ups in the story was Connors suddenly knowing that Peter was Spider-Man for no apparent reason. The second one was introducing the idea that Curt was controlling the Lizard all along and just using Lizzy as a cover for his own anger management issues.

In previous Spidey comics, Connors had stated that the Lizard's personality is indeed partly a result of the unconscious anger stored in Curt's subconscious, or the "reptilian" part of his brain. However, it's been made clear that Curt himself is a decent, caring person. Jenkins kind of crossed the line in revealing Curt to be a deceitful sociopath who was happy to let the Lizard run amok all those past times.

Jenkins' story ended with Curt transforming back to human and staging a bank robbery just to get himself arrested and put in jail. In all of the Lizard storylines since then, however, there has been no more mention of the "evil Connors". Apparently the change in the character was too drastic, so all the writers since then have chosen to ignore Jenkins' storyline. Now that brand New Day has come along, it looks like the mistake of Connors knowing Spidey's secret identity has been done away with too. Gotta love those retcons.


Yes, this was probably MUCH more info than you cared to know, but there it is anyway.

You know, for me, I didn't feel like it was cleared up that well...

In that Jenkins story, (which was made around the time Marvel seemed to forget continuity existed,) I felt it was more of a case that Conner's developed into more of a Lizard/Conner's hybrid that was unseen before... Thus the change in appearance. (Probably due to the anger over his wife's death.) Jenkins job at the time was to try and reinvent various Spidey villains who hadn't been used in a while...

As Millar attempted his best to keep everything in continuity on his MK Spidey run, (he talked extensivley about how he did this and asked various editor's and fans for help,) he ever so slightly touched upon the Jenkins thing as Peter mentions that he started to wonder if Conners was doing this for 'attention,' sometimes nowadays... But he added something that I thought was awesome, (that once again hasn't been talked about since,) that Conners now emitted a pheramone that gave people a human kind of rabies and the people looked kind of 'zombie-esque,' which I thought was very neat

 

[The Lizard]

You know, for me, I didn't feel like it was cleared up that well...

In that Jenkins story, (which was made around the time Marvel seemed to forget continuity existed,) I felt it was more of a case that Conner's developed into more of a Lizard/Conner's hybrid that was unseen before... Thus the change in appearance. (Probably due to the anger over his wife's death.) Jenkins job at the time was to try and reinvent various Spidey villains who hadn't been used in a while...

There was a focus on the more humanoid Connors/Lizard in Jenkins' story, and he obviously was trying to take the character off in a new direction (although we have indeed seen a Lizard/Connors hybrid before, in ASM #102). He just went too far in making it seem like Connors had been secretly evil from day one, despite the fact that we've got 40 years of Lizard stories driving home the fact that Connors hates that he turns into the Lizard, and he's a nice guy.

As Millar attempted his best to keep everything in continuity on his MK Spidey run, (he talked extensivley about how he did this and asked various editor's and fans for help,) he ever so slightly touched upon the Jenkins thing as Peter mentions that he started to wonder if Conners was doing this for 'attention,' sometimes nowadays... But he added something that I thought was awesome, (that once again hasn't been talked about since,) that Conners now emitted a pheromone that gave people a human kind of rabies and the people looked kind of 'zombie-esque,' which I thought was very neat

Yeah, Millar never really made it perfectly clear in that MKSM story, but the assumption was that Norman Osborn was responsible for dosing Connors with the Lizard formula while Connors was in prison, as well as altering the formula in some way to give Lizzy those "riot pheromone" powers. Since Osborn was "upgrading" all the villains in that storyline, it's safe to assume he was responsible. There might have been some kind of mind-control aspect to what Osborn used on Connors as well, because normally the Lizard never would have joined the Sinister Twelve in fighting Spidey. Lizzy's not a team player when it comes to human villains.

 

[The Geek Vault]

I kidna like the idea of Connor's going rogue for awhile, just because after so long and now the guys wife is dead you might go a little nuts ya know?

 

[wolvie2020]

There was a focus on the more humanoid Connors/Lizard in Jenkins' story, and he obviously was trying to take the character off in a new direction (although we have indeed seen a Lizard/Connors hybrid before, in ASM #102). He just went too far in making it seem like Connors had been secretly evil from day one, despite the fact that we've got 40 years of Lizard stories driving home the fact that Connors hates that he turns into the Lizard, and he's a nice guy.



Yeah, Millar never really made it perfectly clear in that MKSM story, but the assumption was that Norman Osborn was responsible for dosing Connors with the Lizard formula while Connors was in prison, as well as altering the formula in some way to give Lizzy those "riot pheromone" powers. Since Osborn was "upgrading" all the villains in that storyline, it's safe to assume he was responsible. There might have been some kind of mind-control aspect to what Osborn used on Connors as well, because normally the Lizard never would have joined the Sinister Twelve in fighting Spidey. Lizzy's not a team player when it comes to human villains.

I totally agree with you on the Millar thing. But I don't know about the Jenkins making hime evil from day one thing... But you are the Lizard pro, maybe I need to read that again. It has been a while! Lol.

 

[wolvie2020]

I kidna like the idea of Connor's going rogue for awhile, just because after so long and now the guys wife is dead you might go a little nuts ya know?

I quite dug the thought of that as well Unless Lizzie is right and Jenkins insinuated that from the start... But the Millar retcon not only makes it work, but manages to add Lizard to a HUGE classic rogues team up, which is fine by me

 

[The Geek Vault]

I quite dug the thought of that as well Unless Lizzie is right and Jenkins insinuated that from the start... But the Millar retcon not only makes it work, but manages to add Lizard to a HUGE classic rogues team up, which is fine by me

Exactly it's like living with DID for a wicked long time can have really bad effects on someone.