Sequels The Official The Lizard in Spider-Man 4 thread!

[The Slang]

Unfortunately, this is the one villain along with Norman and Brock he should have a connection to.

Yeh, if I was parker Id consider doin myself in to prevent any more dangerous supervillains from emerging. There's clearly some dark, dangerous probability field hovering around him... or mary jane.
This sounds like blackcat territory.

Anyway, if we'll be seeing the lizard... then they're gonna have to have a sewer scene. I always liked seeing spidey crawling upside down through some dirty tunnel muttering to himself... 'You dont ever see the fantastic four in the sewers... or the avengers! never have I seen the avengers in a sewer... well maybe the hulk.'

I like that balance of everyman and super-human

 

[LightningFlash]

Someone's being too confident in himself.

How?

By saying that Raimi ISN'T a genius?

Yah, Norman Osborn was written very well, but Doc Ock could've been better..."New Goblin" could've been better...and Venom and Sandman were just screwed over.

Sure, I'm being confident when I say that.

Yeh, if I was parker Id consider doin myself in to prevent any more dangerous supervillains from emerging. There's clearly some dark, dangerous probability field hovering around him... or mary jane.
This sounds like blackcat territory.

Anyway, if we'll be seeing the lizard... then they're gonna have to have a sewer scene. I always liked seeing spidey crawling upside down through some dirty tunnel muttering to himself... 'You dont ever see the fantastic four in the sewers... or the avengers! never have I seen the avengers in a sewer... well maybe the hulk.'

I like that balance of everyman and super-human

You'll never hear that in a Spider-Man movie though. Not unless Marvel takes Spidey from Sony.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

How?

By saying that Raimi ISN'T a genius?

Yah, Norman Osborn was written very well, but Doc Ock could've been better..."New Goblin" could've been better...and Venom and Sandman were just screwed over.

Sure, I'm being confident when I say that.

That's not even what I meant by "Someones being too over confident."

 

[Visionary]

You'll never hear that in a Spider-Man movie though. Not unless Marvel takes Spidey from Sony.

Actually, you can. Spider-Man can mention any Marvel/DC character by name. He did mention The Thing in the first film. This is not illegal.

 

[The Slang]

Did he really refer to the thing?

 

[Visionary]

Yep, it was during the wrestling match scene.

 

[Kanon]

I can't remember that... But, of course, Superman and Dr Strange were mentioned...

 

[Visionary]

No one remembers when he said The Thing's name, I hope I didn't imagine it?

Yep, Supes and Doc Strange were mentioned.

 

[Venom'sDad]

I thought it was in Spider-Man 2 when talking with Aunt May about his comics while she was moving out.

 

[LightningFlash]

Hrm....

*watches Spider-Man again*

 

[Mario_Galaxy]

I love the Lizard. Characters like him and Two Face are so great because they are/were friends to the hero and tragically become villains. But for now I think they need to stay away from the science gone wrong stuff, or just start the film with him as the Lizard. One reason I loved TDK was that Joker had no origin. We were given no reason to how he came to be, but it didn't matter because he was such a charismatic character and having a sob story would have taken away from what he was: a destructive, crazy son of a *****. I'd like that to become a new trend in the films. We don't always need to know how they came to be. Just show them in their full glory and the audience will love them.

 

[Visionary]

Spider-Man ain't Batman, and he should follow no trends from him. There's no way in hell you can have a giant LIZARD running around in New York, and no one knows how he came to be.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I love the Lizard. Characters like him and Two Face are so great because they are/were friends to the hero and tragically become villains. But for now I think they need to stay away from the science gone wrong stuff, or just start the film with him as the Lizard. One reason I loved TDK was that Joker had no origin. We were given no reason to how he came to be, but it didn't matter because he was such a charismatic character and having a sob story would have taken away from what he was: a destructive, crazy son of a *****. I'd like that to become a new trend in the films. We don't always need to know how they came to be. Just show them in their full glory and the audience will love them.

Nope. Nothing should be pulled from TDK. Let it be it's own film. Just becasuse it worked for The Joker doesn't mean it will work for everybody else.

I don't want to hear the makers saying, "Ok, TDK did this, now how can we draw from that?"

I highly doubt they'll do this. The only thing they should learn from TDK is the art of storytelling, nothing more. Go back to their SM1 and SM2 roots. Then it's all good.

 

[Symbiote666]

Agreed, but to add:

The Lizard, if done right, could be a fantastic character. Trying to fix himself and change the world and he winds up turning himself into an actual monster. Why wouldn't you want to explain that?

With two movies already behind him we don't need to spend any time introducing him to the story, he's already there, people expect to see him show up. From the criticism of SM3 they should now know that quality is more important than quantity, so he should get all the screentime he needs. His position in the movie, as a friend of Peter already has the 'family values' that Raimi likes, so there is no need for him have his way with the script.

Nothing needs to be reworked or rewritten, nothing needs to be set up, we can get straight into it and if everyone just does their job, we should get a great movie.

 

[Doctor Jones]

^ I agree. It will be interesting to see that family angle. But he's been in the past two films. He's kinda developed. But I want to see esposition on him.

 

[Symbiote666]

Yeh, obviously he needs to have a little more development, but not like Norman or Otto, no introduction of his character is needed. They could start the movie with him in the first scene and it wouldn't be weird.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Well, if the film is shot back-2-back, I imagine the would explore the experiment in 4 and he become Lizard in 5... this is the reason I'm not so convinced Lizard will be the villain in 4.

IMO, he will only become Lizard in 4, if 4 is a stand alone film, and not part of a 2 parter.

 

[RustyCage]

Yeh, if I was parker Id consider doin myself in to prevent any more dangerous supervillains from emerging. There's clearly some dark, dangerous probability field hovering around him... or mary jane.
This sounds like blackcat territory.

Anyway, if we'll be seeing the lizard... then they're gonna have to have a sewer scene. I always liked seeing spidey crawling upside down through some dirty tunnel muttering to himself... 'You dont ever see the fantastic four in the sewers... or the avengers! never have I seen the avengers in a sewer... well maybe the hulk.'

I like that balance of everyman and super-human

I was just watching that episode yesterday! You're exactly right man, it's an exquisite thing about Spider-man. The Lizard is a GREAT villain because of the position he puts Spidey in not only in his life, having to figure out how to stop his extremely powerful and uncontrollable mutated friend from doing horrible things, but also the position of his image as a superhero. He's not the Fantastic Four, he has to crawl through murky sewers pursuing freaks of nature that he knows he probably can't handle.. And, naturally, that provides him the opportunity to do some Spidey-esque mumbling (which he hasn't done enough of in the movies if you ask me). t:

Also, the way you said 'looks like Black Cat territory'.. I was gonna say 'Kraven the Hunter'. I think that the Lizard is the best film chance for Kraven, period - apart from possibly the Man-Spider... - and it would create more depth and suspense around the chase to save Connors, the stress of having to do it before someone else takes him out.

This isn't the thread for it, but you're right about something else too, Cat CERTAINLY has the stage open to her for the reason you described, but only if they tie up MJ and Gwen's love interest roles as a result of what happened in Spider-man 3... I think there's enormous potential for all three of these charaters in the next movie. It would be really refreshing for a new storyline like that, and the appropriate next step for Spidey after all the hell he'd unleashed under the influence of the Symbiote. Seriously, the situation with MJ is just MORBID now, I easily see her caving in and giving up on trying to be with Peter. Cat, on the other hand, is much better suited to his life as Spidey.. and what comes with it.

 

[RustyCage]

Well, if the film is shot back-2-back, I imagine the would explore the experiment in 4 and he become Lizard in 5... this is the reason I'm not so convinced Lizard will be the villain in 4.

IMO, he will only become Lizard in 4, if 4 is a stand alone film, and not part of a 2 parter.

Hmm, I'm not sure that a whole movie of him experimenting with it is necessary... But it -could- be handled that way if it were just a sub-plot.

If they do use the Lizard in SM4, the experiment could be covered via flashbacks as the story progresses. Spidey figures out who he is and what happened, you know? t:

 

[Venom'sDad]

LOL Rusty, of course as a sub-plot.... reasons why again, I don't think he will be the main villain in 4 if the film is one of two.

 

[RustyCage]

LOL Rusty, of course as a sub-plot.... reasons why again, I don't think he will be the main villain in 4 if the film is one of two.

After thinking about it for a little bit longer, I think it would be way better if they handled it via flashbacks in 4, man. I think it's a pretty important part of the backbone of the story involving him. It kind of cheapens the impact if you spread such a character as the Lizard out over two movies (that's more of something you do with the Symbiote Spidey/Venom story ), unless they come up with something else to make up said backbone in SM5... and then the there's matter of asking "What is the main plot of SM4 that makes Doc Connors' experiments with lizard DNA relevant in the first place?"

I dunno, it's tough to gauge this without actually being the writers ourselves and concocting something brilliant... but it seems more well composed if they handle everything in the same movie with the Lizard, and have us piece what happened together rather than knowing beforehand. It's about the impact on the audience, like I was saying. It's more of a treat for them to uncover it with Spidey as he figures it out than it is for them to be like 'Yeah, we saw this coming after the last movie spelled it out for us.. yaaawn.' I think the experience of discovery and relevance after being freaked out by this seemingly random lizard monster is an important experience to be had too. Keeps it energetic and leaves unseasoned Spidey fans gripped with wanting to know. Ah, I guess I'm just babbling about nuances I can't control, and my own personal preferences and opinions about what would be the most impactful, but I do dream quite vividly... t:

Hmm, you know, I'd also like to see the Man-Spider in some form, I'd like to see Spidey go to Doc Connors for help after he sprouts the extra sets of arms... It would help the character become more integral and beloved. Maybe that could help set up the Lizard somehow too? So many possibilities...

 

[Venom'sDad]

I saying in a back-2-back film(4&5), it is my opinion that in 4 Lizard family and experiment would be a subplot leading to 5... in the mean while, other villain(s) will carry the mantle as the film's(4) main villain(s). Consequences in 4 will lead to Lizard in 5.

 

[RustyCage]

I saying in a back-2-back film(4&5), it is my opinion that in 4 Lizard family and experiment would be a subplot leading to 5... in the mean while, other villain(s) will carry the mantle as the film's(4) main villain(s). Consequences in 4 will lead to Lizard in 5.

Yeah, I understood that, I was saying that I don't think that will have much of an impact on audiences with a character like the Lizard... I dunno, I guess maybe it's tough to explain properly. I wish I could like make a flash animation describing what I mean.

 

[RedHood55]

What Spider-man 4 needs to have to be succesful is 1 VILLAIN!!. No sinister 6 or whatever. Spiderman 3 had way to many villains, I know everyone has heard this before. IF.. Lizard is in SP4 i hope he will have to be the only villain, and also no die. What I had in mind was for Dr. Connors to do his little experiment and in the process he goes beserk like in the game. In the process he smashes things around his lab. While doing that he releases the symbiote that was left from peter. This will set up Carnage to be in the next film.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I just thought of something. Wouldn't it be cool if in S-M4 when Spidey and the Lizard are fighting eachother in the sewer, the Lizard goes to hit Spidey with his tail, Spidey ducks, and the Lizard's tail smashes the wall causing tons of debris to fall onto Spidey and Spidey could struggle to get up and all that. That would be a homage to ASM issue #33, which is when Spidey was trapped under debris due to the Master Planner.