Marvel Films The Marvel Studios News and Discussion Thread

[psylockolussus]

I'd say Captain America 4 is the safest of the 2025 films. Wakanda Forever showed that the general audience is at least potentially willing to accept legacy versions of popular franchises. As long as they properly market CA4 as a sequel to the other CA movies and stick to the established tone and iconography and whatnot, it should do fine.

Fantastic 4, Blade, and Thunderbolts are all new franchises, which is much shakier ground to be on, as Marvel has been struggling to get people invested in its newer stuff. Right now it's like there's a cutoff after Black Panther, where that was the last new MCU franchise that people got truly and deeply invested in.

Captain America 4 should get some goodwill from Deadpool. Captain America as a brand, is probably stronger than F4 simply because of the previous films, so that should help. I'm giving it a benefit of a doubt that it can gross at least $100 million in North America. The rest of the world though? It could struggle as much as The Marvels, with a different actor playing as Captain America.

And yes the other three, are much riskier. 3 back to back non sequels are too much. Fantastic 4 would be better off coming after Spider-Man 4. The other two, after Avengers, Black Panther or Dr. Strange which ever comes first.

As for Shang-Chi. I fear that the sequel is taking too much time and when it comes out, all the goodwill from the first film might be gone. Either it features an Avenger, or it comes after a successful Mcu film in order to guaranteed its success.

The demand for Marvel movies in cinemas is at all time low and even if they have the greatest story. If the audience aren't interested, they won't show up. See Birds of Prey and The Suicide Squad 2021 - those were better than most dceu films and both flopped at the boX office.

 

[Chris B]

I say this with total affection but I'm really crossing my fingers that psylockolussus loves Thunderbolts when it hits theaters lol!

 

[Primal Slayer]

As I watch a MCU retrospective (pt.1 of like....4...omg), they really just need to get back to basics.

4 films and maybe 2-3 shows that lead up to an Avengers movie or some type of team-up movie. Post-credits should pay off A LOT sooner than they have been nowadays and be more cohesive.

 

[psylockolussus]

I say this with total affection but I'm really crossing my fingers that psylockolussus loves Thunderbolts when it hits theaters lol!

I doubt that. The roster looks unappealing to me. And out of the 60+ Marvel movies that came out in theaters, i only have about 5 to 6 films that I would consider my favorite. X2, Dofp, Endgame, Spider-Man 2, maybe No Way Home.

There are lot of Marvel films I enjoyed but a lot of those aren't based from my favorite Marvel ip (X-Men) for me to say that I "love" them. Love is such a strong word. Films like The Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Civil War, First Class and infinity War, I consider those as some of the best Marvel movies ever, but I wouldn't use the word love for them.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Hopefully we'll get some type of pay-off from these and they'll stop being all over the place.

1. 2021
   
2. 2021
   
3. 2022
   
4. 2022
   

 

[psylockolussus]

3 and 4 could easily be continued in an Avengers or solo film. StarfoX, Pip and the Eternals though, I don't think Eternals II is happening. So most likely, in Avengers movie or whatever movie they plan to show the Eternals neXt.

The first video could be eXpanded in the 2nd Shang-Chi movie which I hope comes out before Avengers 6.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

The Hercules tease was only a year ago, but I imagine that'll only be paid off in a Thor 5. The advantage that the Phase One films had is that they teased the next film or, in the case of First Avenger, the Avengers movie. Yeah, Iron Man's post-credit scene doesn't lead into The Incredible Hulk, but there is a payoff with Stark showing up at the end to talk with Ross about a team.

Now, with the universe infinitely larger, not all post credits scenes lead to or will even be paid off in the next movie.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Instead of asking me if I have a "crystal ball", what a snide comment from you. I'd like for you to point out how Marvel Studios is suddenly going to bounce back in less than 2 years by keeping that 2025 line up (big emphasis on Thunderbolts/Blade) after a flop that most of us haven't even predicted weeks and months ago.

We are getting 4 Marvel movies neXt year that includes Kraven, Venom and Madame Web which are more likely going to damage the Marvel name than help it. Also MCU Disney+ shows are still moving forward at a fast speed (Wonder Man continuing to film, when there's already four other shows waiting for release).

Well maybe F4 suddenly breaking out in May 2025 would do wonders for Thunderbolts and Blade that mcu films would suddenly gross over $100 million in North America, but why would I think of that possibility when The Marvels had the lowest opening weekend for a MCU film and a record breaking 78% 2nd weekend drop. Also there's a long list of franchises that had a string of hits suddenly flopped and didn't recover (Wizarding World, FoX-Men, DCEU).

Amigo, you can harp on this they need to cancel these projects train all you want. But they're clearly not doing that. These movies are coming. Acceptance is an important step

The one area I agree with you is sequels are taking too long and hurting those franchises by their absence. Which could be countered by featuring some of these characters elsewhere to keep them fresh like they did Doctor Strange. But they're not canceling any of these movies

 

[Iceman]

3 and 4 could easily be continued in an Avengers or solo film. StarfoX, Pip and the Eternals though, I don't think Eternals II is happening. So most likely, in Avengers movie or whatever movie they plan to show the Eternals neXt.

The first video could be eXpanded in the 2nd Shang-Chi movie which I hope comes out before Avengers 6.

It’ll be a shame if there is no Eternals 2. I think a second film could have improved on the concept a lot with all the lengthy setup (that ruined the pacing of the film) out the way.

I’d quite like to see Eros and Pip again. Would have thought Feige and Co would want the Harry Styles fans paying to see whatever film he appeared in next too lol.

 

[Iceman]

Hopefully we'll get some type of pay-off from these and they'll stop being all over the place.

1. 2021
   
2. 2021
   
3. 2022
   
4. 2022
   

Thanks for posting all of these. I quite like them for the most part. Just a shame they are taking so long to payoff (by which the point the GA has likely totally forgotten about them).

 

[DyeLorean]

I've only seen Eternals once and I liked it; but given the films and series we've had since, I'm starting to remember it waaaay better.

 

[Iceman]

Looks like we’re relying on Deadpool 3 to get MCU hype back again with the GA. Secret Wars in particular needs D3 to catch on with audiences. If the multiverse/nostalgia hype is already running out it would be a big problem, but I think Deadpool will do fine.

 

[Lip]

When Marvel announced the change to Quality over Quantity, some of us, myself included, thought they would be rethinking things and cancelling some of the projects that had not yet started production. And yeah, it doesn't look like they're cancelling anything.

So by the "Quality" approach, I believe that their idea is to take time to make sure the upcoming content is good, which results in delays and reshoots (CA4 is facing 6 months of reshoots and IronHeart will premiere 3 years after filming). Although this adds to the problem of waiting too long for sequels or to see these characters (last time Sam was seen by the GA that doesn't see the shows was in 2019's brief scenes of Endgame), it does make sense to take the time you need to make sure these projects work.

But it's the "Quantity" approach I fail to understand.

They don't seem to be cutting new projects and instead keep expanding this universe by adding more franchises (Vision and Rhodes, for instance), which speaking for myself, it's what's wearing me out and exhausting me. And while in 2024 there'll be only one movie, 2025 has 4, plus the TV shows.

So I'm not sure exactly how this is going to help the "Feige is spread to thin" issue, since I think a whole new project and concept would require more work than a sequel (maybe?). Not to mention that by spreading more and more of this universe, by adding more and more new IPs, I also don't see how this helps the already all over the place narrative (see the post-credit scenes post above as one example) and the lack of protagonism is saga has (we don't have any core or lead characters as Tony, Steve and Thor in Infinity Saga).

I'm not a producer, so who knows what exactly they want to do for the future of the MCU, but this strategy is a bit confusing to me.

I hope they can figure this out because the X-Men are definitely not going to save the MCU.

If they keep spreading things like this, with no core characters at the center so the audience can connect with, and with characters showing up every 5 years.... the X-Men will only make things worst with that amount of characters.

 

[Lip]

Looks like we’re relying on Deadpool 3 to get MCU hype back again with the GA. Secret Wars in particular needs D3 to catch on with audiences. If the multiverse/nostalgia hype is already running out it would be a big problem, but I think Deadpool will do fine.

Yeah, I believe Deadpool will directly affect the hype for the upcoming Avengers movies. But since the GotG' success and good word of mouth didn't help The Marvels at all, I don't see how Deadpool' success would help Thunderbolts, Captain America or Blade.

 

[blackdragon6]

Blade especially has a lot to live up to, and I'm skeptical of it rising to the occasion. That's just how I feel, and I felt that way long before the **** started hitting the fan lol.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, I believe Deadpool will directly affect the hype for the upcoming Avengers movies. But since the GotG' success and good word of mouth didn't help The Marvels at all, I don't see how Deadpool' success would help Thunderbolts, Captain America or Blade.

Agreed on the GotG Marvels thing, but I'm hoping Deadpool shows that Secret Wars at least still has some hope, and that these Avengers films after such a huge gap are what can finally start connecting all these new characters and get people excited about the MCU again.

 

[Iceman]

When Marvel announced the change to Quality over Quantity, some of us, myself included, thought they would be rethinking things and cancelling some of the projects that had not yet started production. And yeah, it doesn't look like they're cancelling anything.

So by the "Quality" approach, I believe that their idea is to take time to make sure the upcoming content is good, which results in delays and reshoots (CA4 is facing 6 months of reshoots and IronHeart will premiere 3 years after filming). Although this adds to the problem of waiting too long for sequels or to see these characters (last time Sam was seen by the GA that doesn't see the shows was in 2019's brief scenes of Endgame), it does make sense to take the time you need to make sure these projects work.

But it's the "Quantity" approach I fail to understand.

They don't seem to be cutting new projects and instead keep expanding this universe by adding more franchises (Vision and Rhodes, for instance), which speaking for myself, it's what's wearing me out and exhausting me. And while in 2024 there'll be only one movie, 2025 has 4, plus the TV shows.

So I'm not sure exactly how this is going to help the "Feige is spread to thin" issue, since I think a whole new project and concept would require more work than a sequel (maybe?). Not to mention that by spreading more and more of this universe, by adding more and more new IPs, I also don't see how this helps the already all over the place narrative (see the post-credit scenes post above as one example) and the lack of protagonism is saga has (we don't have any core or lead characters as Tony, Steve and Thor in Infinity Saga).

I'm not a producer, so who knows what exactly they want to do for the future of the MCU, but this strategy is a bit confusing to me.

I hope they can figure this out because the X-Men are definitely not going to save the MCU.

If they keep spreading things like this, with no core characters at the center so the audience can connect with, and with characters showing up every 5 years.... the X-Men will only make things worst with that amount of characters.

I don't think cancelling is always straightforward once projects have started and also have a place in the longer term plan, but not greenlighting new projects (or being much more careful on that) might be what they mean. Plus with all the delays they have time to focus on the existing ones.

It's only now with Marvels that they're fully realising that they spread themselves too thin and that audiences really won't keep turning up for everything if there is too much ok-to-good (ie not top quality) content not linked together, too many setups not paid off within a reasonable timeframe and too long between sequels or additional appearances for new characters.

Also TV show standards are higher now than some of these execs might have remembered and are a much bigger time commitment for viewers. People don't want tons of shows unless they are as good as all the top shows they could be watching instead.

 

[Lip]

I don't think cancelling is always straightforward once projects have started and also have a place in the longer term plan

Yes, I agree.

It was what they did to Daredevil, starting almost from scratch after some episodes shot, which probably cost them a lot of money, plus all the troubles they have been facing, like too much reshots, the huge lost of interest in The Marvels by the GA, and all the issues to get a script right (Blade), are some of the things that influenced me into thinking they could be cutting some things. Like, they are clearly facing a lot of issues to get Blade started, for instance.

It's only now with Marvels that they're fully realising that they spread themselves too thin and that audiences really won't keep turning up for everything if there is too much ok-to-good (ie not top quality) content not linked together, too many setups not paid off within a reasonable timeframe and too long between sequels or additional appearances for new characters.

Also TV show standards are higher now than some of these execs might have remembered and are a much bigger time commitment for viewers. People don't want tons of shows unless they are as good as all the top shows they could be watching instead.

Even if they get all to top quality, I still hope they keep most of TV on... TV. And it seems like that's the plan, which is good.

Tying everything to movies is too much to ask for the GA. And it's too much to keep track, as good as they can be, which ends up being exhausting.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Looks like we’re relying on Deadpool 3 to get MCU hype back again with the GA. Secret Wars in particular needs D3 to catch on with audiences. If the multiverse/nostalgia hype is already running out it would be a big problem, but I think Deadpool will do fine.

The weird thing about that, to me, is the fact that Deadpool is very much for adult audiences. Yet they had the much more kid-friendly The Marvels set it up. All those tweens and young teens who are the target audience of Ms. Marvel, which then connected to The Marvels, which then teased the X-men, which will be followed up in Deadpool 3, which is the only MCU movie in 2024 and seemingly will be a linchpin installment in the multiverse saga's meta-narrative....what is Marvel expecting will happen with that segment of the audience? Will they do the "Once Upon a Deadpool" thing again? Or are youngsters just expected to miss out on that part of the meta-narrative?

 

[psylockolussus]

Thanks for posting all of these. I quite like them for the most part. Just a shame they are taking so long to payoff (by which the point the GA has likely totally forgotten about them).

I prefer the Black Knight tease. Its too bad Marvel Studios' Black Knight won't happen or at least anytime soon.

I think like DS1, a lot of these teases would be eXplored or eXpanded later on, but like DS1, it took them so long to feature Baron Mardo again and he was killed by Wanda off screen.

 

[psylockolussus]

Yeah, I believe Deadpool will directly affect the hype for the upcoming Avengers movies. But since the GotG' success and good word of mouth didn't help The Marvels at all, I don't see how Deadpool' success would help Thunderbolts, Captain America or Blade.

It won't.

With so many Marvel movies coming out in 2024 and 2025 (eight films currently have a date), there's a bigger chance people would just watch 1 to 2 films per year, that really pique their interest.

With the Marvels flopping, I bet many viewers of previous mcu films, just chose to wait for it to come out on Disney+.

 

[Iceman]

I prefer the Black Knight tease. Its too bad Marvel Studios' Black Knight won't happen or at least anytime soon.

I think like DS1, a lot of these teases would be eXplored or eXpanded later on, but like DS1, it took them so long to feature Baron Mardo again and he was killed by Wanda off screen.

I was hoping he would be the main villain of the Strange sequel. Right now though, they are going to take too long to pay off most of these credit scenes for them to have much value in the way that the old ones did. And from my cinema showings at least, it seems far less people are waiting for them nowadays.

 

[Iceman]

The weird thing about that, to me, is the fact that Deadpool is very much for adult audiences. Yet they had the much more kid-friendly The Marvels set it up. All those tweens and young teens who are the target audience of Ms. Marvel, which then connected to The Marvels, which then teased the X-men, which will be followed up in Deadpool 3, which is the only MCU movie in 2024 and seemingly will be a linchpin installment in the multiverse saga's meta-narrative....what is Marvel expecting will happen with that segment of the audience? Will they do the "Once Upon a Deadpool" thing again? Or are youngsters just expected to miss out on that part of the meta-narrative?

Good point, that didn't even cross my mind. I guess Fox X-Men was aimed a little higher in age too but certainly you'd expect any crossover story to be open to everyone who could view a part of it. Maybe the MCU Deadpool won't be as hardcore as the Fox one?

 

[Primal Slayer]

The Hercules tease was only a year ago, but I imagine that'll only be paid off in a Thor 5. The advantage that the Phase One films had is that they teased the next film or, in the case of First Avenger, the Avengers movie. Yeah, Iron Man's post-credit scene doesn't lead into The Incredible Hulk, but there is a payoff with Stark showing up at the end to talk with Ross about a team.

Now, with the universe infinitely larger, not all post credits scenes lead to or will even be paid off in the next movie.

They definitely need to get back to basics with post-credit scenes. Its going to get to the point where fans dont even care about them as they become more and more useless.

 

[Iceman]

Yes, I agree.

It was what they did to Daredevil, starting almost from scratch after some episodes shot, which probably cost them a lot of money, plus all the troubles they have been facing, like too much reshots, the huge lost of interest in The Marvels by the GA, and all the issues to get a script right (Blade), are some of the things that influenced me into thinking they could be cutting some things. Like, they are clearly facing a lot of issues to get Blade started, for instance.



Even if they get all to top quality, I still hope they keep most of TV on... TV. And it seems like that's the plan, which is good.

Tying everything to movies is too much to ask for the GA. And it's too much to keep track, as good as they can be, which ends up being exhausting.

The TV stuff shouldn't be required viewing at all as most of the GA like a cinema trip here and there, all linked together, but watching a ton of shows fully thoughout the year is a bit too much homework. I think it's fine for the shows to assume the films are being watched but not the other way round. Even many Marvel fans here are nowhere near up to date on the shows.